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[stewie3500]

This is my first post.

    This site has been very informative and i enjoy reading all the posts. I am currently wrapping up my install on a Tennessee Outdoor Furnace, model 400. I have access to water that has been processed through a Softening system, R.O. System and then Mixed Bed Demineralizers. It is turbine steam grade demin. Silica is less than 2 ug/l, Conductivity is under .5 uS and ph is around 9. The level of Calcium hardness is undetectable. I have two gallons of treatment supplied by the manufacturer and am wondering if i should add all of it. The stove is carbon steel and its capacity is 400 gal. The manufacturer boasts less than 3 gallons of make up per season, so if that is accurate, dilution should not be an issue. Has anyone tried this?

[Scott7m]

Use your treatment as directed, hook up your garden hose and fill her up.

Tap water is fine

[stewie3500]

Scott

Thanks for the reply.

  I am a water technician for a combined cycle power plant. I have tested my tap water at home and the calcium hardness is over eighty and the conductivity is nearly 700. The advantage to the Demineralized water in the boiler would be negligible scaling and nearly zero corrosion with the ability to go longer periods before a water change out. The question was geared more towards any adverse effects that anyone has experienced. The stove is an investment and if the highest quality water is avaliable, should i take advantage of it?

Thanks

[jd40mo77]

I also work at a combined cycle plant I based on everything I have learned at the power plant and from reading this forum and talking to users of outside wood "boilers" I would say definitely go for the demin water.................I wish there was a way I could use some of the plants' demin to fill my stove........if I ever get around to buying or building one....       but at least I got my 1/2" pex installed in the new basement floor...............even if I didnt' put in the insulation and ran my loops spaced at 24" instead of the suggested 18" or less..........

[willieG]

you say you have pex in your basement floor with no insulation under it? i hope i am reading that wrong!
 you will be sending more heat into the ground than you will be sending into your room if there is no insulation below your floor loop. also using 1/2 inch pex in the floor you should have kept your loop to a max of about 12 inches apart and a maximum length per loop of 250 feet (this is a rule of thumb for good practice, but should have been less with the lack of insulation below the loop)

if you have no insulation below the loop there is a very good chance you will be losing more btu to the ground than to your room.

[Scott7m]

Conductivity with boiler treatment should be fine as long as it's under 4000..  At least that's what we learn in training from certified labs

Pex in basement with no insulation?  Wow. Hope were not readin that right

[jd40mo77]

Yeah...........I'll let you all know if I regret the no insulation and the 24" spacing on the pex........... I installed it knowing most knowledgeable people recommend installing insulation......... but winters are relatively mild here and this installation is intended for intermittent usage and of greater concern for me is the loss of the cooling effect of the basement floor in the summer time temps if I would have installed the recommended insulation...........  doesn't insulation function both directions........it's not a check valve that permits temperature transfer one direction and stops it the other direction........right???

[cranman]

As for the insulation: Fifteen years ago I attended 2 government workshops on hydronics before I put four 250 ft loops of half inch kitec
on 12 inch grid in my garage. At that time I was told that as long as my floor was well drained and I was going to use a wood boiler, it would take too many years to pay for the insulation. They recommended insulation around the slab and four feet around the perimiter. The computer layout for the grid takes the hottest water to the outer runs and the doorways. I have very good insulation and windows and doors. Ceiling is R50 plus and walls R20. Despite the fact that I live above the 54th Parralel and on a windy lakeshore I have had no problems. At startup in fall it takes two days with an infeed of 106 F to warm the slab, but after that it appears to run very little to maintain 60F in the workshop. I installed quite a few electric boilers in past years and they have all been insulated.

[willieG]

As for the insulation: Fifteen years ago I attended 2 government workshops on hydronics before I put four 250 ft loops of half inch kitec
on 12 inch grid in my garage. At that time I was told that as long as my floor was well drained and I was going to use a wood boiler, it would take too many years to pay for the insulation. They recommended insulation around the slab and four feet around the perimiter. The computer layout for the grid takes the hottest water to the outer runs and the doorways. I have very good insulation and windows and doors. Ceiling is R50 plus and walls R20. Despite the fact that I live above the 54th Parralel and on a windy lakeshore I have had no problems. At startup in fall it takes two days with an infeed of 106 F to warm the slab, but after that it appears to run very little to maintain 60F in the workshop. I installed quite a few electric boilers in past years and they have all been insulated.

formula from the net = 1/R x delta T x area to heat = BTU per hour lost to the earth

1" styrofoam = R5   1/5 x 10 x 900 =1800 btu
2" styrofoam = R10 1/10 x 10 x 900 = 900 btu
4" styrofoam = R20 1/20 x 10 x 900 = 450 btu

now i am not sure what earth under your slab is for an R value but i would have to guess it is less than 1 inch of foam. lets say it is R1 (i think .1 or .2 but we will use 1)

1/1 x 10 x 900 = 9000 btu lost to the earth with no insulation..we can also make an average guess with a delta of 10 that you would require 10 to 15 btu per square foot to heat your room.. so you would require on the low end 9000 btu and on the high end 13,500 btu to heat your room, with no insulation under your slab you could be wasting as much into the ground as you are heating your room (on the low end)

i am not a heating or hvac guy but i think the formula from teh web is likely close as it was posted by an hvac guy in another forum

[willieG]

sorry the heat loss in cranmans floor would not benear what the formula says ashe stated he insulated around the outside of the slab and horizontal edges, however there will be heat loss (likely as the formula states at all uninsulated square footage) i did find on the net that the R value of earth (depending on type and moisture content) that puts it between.24 and .80