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[RSI]

I haven't yet.
Is there any chance you got water inside the outer pipe? How old is it? What kind of boiler do you have?

[WMSmoke]

The pex is 2 years old and is 1 inch. The boiler is a Crown Royal.

[RSI]

Did it melt the snow right away or start after a while? Are you sure it is Z supply brand or could it possibly be another brand?
Is it down hill to either the boiler or house, or is the lowest point somewhere in between? If lower outside, is it possible to dig a hole at the lowest point to check it?

[Scott7m]

The pex is 2 years old and is 1 inch. The boiler is a Crown Royal.

Is the shell white?

[willieG]

Our main reason for choosing white is quality control. If a black pipe has a hole from the manufacturer or shipping, it is very easy to miss.  But with our pipe, a hole will stand out like a sore thumb.  This helps both of us avoid the disaster of a waterlogged system.

the above quote is direct from thier web site...pretty much tells you that  if a stone were to rub through or you cracked it on installation you are pretty much screwed...they are admitting a small hole and you will have a water logged system

it does not matter where your pipe is in the ground...above the water table? ground water must pass through the soil around your pipe to get to the water table below..once water starts to get in, it is never drying out yo pay 10 grand or more for a good gasser and then cheap out on pipes that are wrapped with insualtion that has only a millimeter or two of protection to keep it working? maybe i am entirely wrong but i think the closed cell is worth the extra money..i know personally in a 250 foot  run i saved 4 cords of wood a year compared to my first "cheapo" pipes

[RSI]

Our main reason for choosing white is quality control. If a black pipe has a hole from the manufacturer or shipping, it is very easy to miss.  But with our pipe, a hole will stand out like a sore thumb.  This helps both of us avoid the disaster of a waterlogged system.

the above quote is direct from thier web site...pretty much tells you that  if a stone were to rub through or you cracked it on installation you are pretty much screwed...they are admitting a small hole and you will have a water logged system

it does not matter where your pipe is in the ground...above the water table? ground water must pass through the soil around your pipe to get to the water table below..once water starts to get in, it is never drying out yo pay 10 grand or more for a good gasser and then cheap out on pipes that are wrapped with insualtion that has only a millimeter or two of protection to keep it working? maybe i am entirely wrong but i think the closed cell is worth the extra money..i know personally in a 250 foot  run i saved 4 cords of wood a year compared to my first "cheapo" pipes

If your closed cell polyurethane foam pipe gets a hole in it or cracks it will get water logged too.

[Scott7m]

Our main reason for choosing white is quality control. If a black pipe has a hole from the manufacturer or shipping, it is very easy to miss.  But with our pipe, a hole will stand out like a sore thumb.  This helps both of us avoid the disaster of a waterlogged system.

the above quote is direct from thier web site...pretty much tells you that  if a stone were to rub through or you cracked it on installation you are pretty much screwed...they are admitting a small hole and you will have a water logged system

it does not matter where your pipe is in the ground...above the water table? ground water must pass through the soil around your pipe to get to the water table below..once water starts to get in, it is never drying out yo pay 10 grand or more for a good gasser and then cheap out on pipes that are wrapped with insualtion that has only a millimeter or two of protection to keep it working? maybe i am entirely wrong but i think the closed cell is worth the extra money..i know personally in a 250 foot  run i saved 4 cords of wood a year compared to my first "cheapo" pipes

If your closed cell polyurethane foam pipe gets a hole in it or cracks it will get water logged too.

Exactly.... And as far as heat loss, there are wrapped lines that out perform foam according to the numbers we've seen.  I think rsi's test will confirm all of this as well

One of our most respected members "Marty" will be digging up his water logged thermopex this spring, he says the foam acted exactly like a sponge

[willieG]

i wont dispute it will take on moisture slightly..the closed cell is quite resistant (not water proof) and will absorb (i think) some moisture at a crack but it not likley will move the entire length of the pipe like the wrapped stuff. when i do my sons run i will use the foam filled stuff with the thickest outer jacket i can buy and i will also run it inside another plastice tile to help prtect it from any rubbing stones due to fros movement.

closed cell foam is used in flowtation devices and in insulating outside foundations and under  cement slabs...i have never been told to use any of that wrapped stuff for these applications and i know what happened to my own (wrapped) lines..i think i got three or 4 years out of them then i went from 8 cords for a winter to 12 and had a 3 foot wide walkway all winter 250 feet long...it did make for easy access to the wood shed. until my foam filled lines fail..i will continue to believe in them. i have yet to see anyone on this forum (or www.owbinfo.com) come here and complain about melted snow that have used these types of lines...i have seen many on here (and there) complain of failure with the wrapped lines (perhaps it was installed wrong) but i think the ratio of failed foam lines and failed wrapped lines are no where close to one another?

[RSI]

The outer jacket on the foam pipes is stronger but when it gets water logged it is much worse than wrap type that is water logged.

I have no proof but I believe that when the foam pipe is rolled up and unrolled it gets millions of hairline cracks in the foam which can channel water through it.

Once it is soaked it is completely useless. The wrap type will still insulate some with water in it because the foam is 100% water proof but will but water between the layers will cut the insulation value way down.

With either type, you have to install it properly or it could fail.

[automan77]

craig from ridgewood sent me a sample piece of the zsupply 5 wrap today.  looks pretty good. the outside of the pipe seems
pretty tough. would    it be better to go with 1 and a quarter inch for a 120 ft run.   cant really decide weather to use  thermopex
or wrapped. the money is  on issue  but I  want it to last.

[willieG]

i can't dispute your claims RSI as i feel you have much more experience with this stuff than me, but i will stick to my belief that i have yet to see anyone come on this forum and say their closed cell insulated lines have failed. and when and if i do, i will still say that from all the wrapped failure i have heard of, it may be 100 to 1 and my bets would still be for the closed cell foam.

and if someone does not mind cutting the extra 4 or 5 cords of wood, hell..save your money and dont by the wrapped stuff either...just put the pex in without any insulation

[willieG]

[quote author=Scott7m link=topic=
One of our most respected members "Marty" will be digging up his water logged thermopex this spring, he says the foam acted exactly like a sponge
 is the post below from marty  below you refer to scott?

Scott, would a guy be able to pull that 5 wrap stuff through a 6" pvc?

I'm planning on replacing my thermopex this summer, as it is thawing the ground in two spots. I have access to 200' of FREE 6" pvc, so I thought I'd put the 5 wrap inside the pvc. Any thoughts?
 i believe he says in two spots not the whole length... i believe i agreed thsi could happen but i would sooner melt the ground in a couple of "spots" then for the entire length of my run upon a failure i do however agree that a good idea is to run the underground line (any kind you buy) inside another pipe...hey the more protection you can muster the better

so marty's failure is only "partial" and the first one i have seen on here for the foam filled pipe.. i  think i have seen two or three every year sinc this forum started on "wrapped" failures

i agree with you that they can work and work well or better than foam filled..but the failure rate i think speaks for itself

[RSI]

i can't dispute your claims RSI as i feel you have much more experience with this stuff than me, but i will stick to my belief that i have yet to see anyone come on this forum and say their closed cell insulated lines have failed. and when and if i do, i will still say that from all the wrapped failure i have heard of, it may be 100 to 1 and my bets would still be for the closed cell foam.

and if someone does not mind cutting the extra 4 or 5 cords of wood, hell..save your money and dont by the wrapped stuff either...just put the pex in without any insulation

Not surprising that you hear a lot more about wrap failure because there are so many different types. Some of it used to use recycled plastic for the outer pipe that broke down after a few years.

Also the ratio of wrapped type to foam on OWBs is probably at least 10 wrapped to every 1 foam.

[RSI]

I just realized this is turning into an argument here. I usually try to avoid that so will not be replying in this post again.

[automan77]

wonder how  much longer the outer pipe on the thermopex will last