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[heat550]

Do you have temp gauges on the supply and return at the boiler, if so and under full load you are seeing more than a 20 degree differential between the supply and return then you will need to either up the pipe size or add another line set, adding a second circ on that short of a run may make the water travel to fast which causes excessive noise as well as premature fitting and pipe wear

After researching how baseboards work . Im thinking of changing my system . Im thinking direct to hot water heater then 1 big air ex changer in house and run bit of duct work from it so exchanger alone could heat the house The way washroom is I can get ducts to most rooms.  and hook up the garage air ex changer also .  So just them 2 air ex-changers have direct boiler water .  Then make all baseboard heaters in house a separate system  add exspantion tank and a pump air bleeder etc . and use a plate style exchanger about 60,000 btus Its alot of work but . If I do it this way .  Theres 2 great positives . first if older baseboards spring a leak I will only get 25 gallons in house not 155 gallons . and next positive . when its not as cold I can just run the baseboard  system ( no fan noise )  But if we get polar vortex cold I can switch on Fan forced air system .   Does this sound like good idea .

I would have like total 133,000 btu max  for a house 42x26 double story . with 11x20 addition 2400 sqft  also any good diagrams to help me out how to plumb my baseboard system . I have expansion tank and another 007 pump  I need to have good idea how to plumb it before I start cutting things apart .   

Heat550

[slimjim]

I myself work better with drawings, could you give us a rough sketch of your place and we will try to help.

[heat550]

Heat,

the double fans are pretty insane....burns like a blacksmiths forge.....gets hott real quick. Only takes about 7-10 min to get up to temp. It took a lot of sand, i got 1 cubic yard of sand and it almost took the whole thing!

Here is where I'm at 200css is getting naked . Taking tank off base tomorrow to check out leak. This is where the new 400dcss is being installed . base is to wide for new 400 but need to add 18 inch length going with 1/4 inch steel plate and over construction steel super heavy duty bolted to sides of existing base so it all floats with base cement. don't need any frost pushing issues.  making it so 1/4 steel plate is replaceable if down the road if needs replacing .  Heres what a 19 year old heatmor 200css looks like . will send pictures of leak  later tomorrow . Funny thing everything looks pretty new . check out what the smoke stack looks like after 6,000,000,000 btus pasted thru it

Heat550

[heat550]

I myself work better with drawings, could you give us a rough sketch of your place and we will try to help.

I did some math and seems my best bet is to have a primary loop and feeds the zones off that with IFC pumps . But there's acouple things I don't quite get .
if the primary loop has a pump size 011 taco. what size should the IFC pumps be ? does it matter . Ones going to 100,000 btu air exchanger and other is going to another air 100,000btu air exchanger .
and I need to hook up my hot domestic also Going to try and keep everything 1 inch pipe. .  And later project is the baseboard system . Just going put in valves for that for now . I will draw up a diagram here .
 I been busy with setting boiler yet  base upgrades etc .  Need schooling on IFC pumps . Its all about flow you know .

Heat550

[RSI]

If going with primary and secondary loops, the pumps should be sizes for their loop. All the primary loop has to do is supply enough flow for the secondary loops. The head pressure will be different in the primary and secondary loops.

Is that pipe 20 year old Kitec? Is it still in good condition? Is there any bubbling up of the inner layer inside the pipe?

[heat550]

If going with primary and secondary loops, the pumps should be sizes for their loop. All the primary loop has to do is supply enough flow for the secondary loops. The head pressure will be different in the primary and secondary loops.

Heat550

Is that pipe 20 year old Kitec? Is it still in good condition? Is there any bubbling up of the inner layer inside the pipe?

Ends coming out of ground look great like new . should I be looking for other issues ? I have sticker in the shop of what it was 20 years ago. I replaced kitec ends they were Corroding.

With the loops I need to look how I can do it. Do pumps have to be eqaul like example primary 10 gpm so 2 zones you want  2- 5 gpm IFC pumps. Found 1/2 pex I have in shop slab. I bought it all same year. Can't find 1 inch sticker for pex al pex. might need to scope it might need one of these .

Heat550

[heat550]

If going with primary and secondary loops, the pumps should be sizes for their loop. All the primary loop has to do is supply enough flow for the secondary loops. The head pressure will be different in the primary and secondary loops.

Is that pipe 20 year old Kitec? Is it still in good condition? Is there any bubbling up of the inner layer inside the pipe?

Here is  a ruff sketch of new and improved lay out .  I have a 011 taco for primary and I will have to buy some 007 IFC pumps  .
I'm not going to hook up the baseboards yet as that will be separate loop system that need some TLC yet .  will put valves in for it .
My goal is to increase flow to ex-changers . using primary and secondary loops style setup. I only have the out door boiler . no other boiler .  primary total will be about  total pipe run of 270 ft that's pipe in and out all 1 inch pex al pex and pex barrier inside. secondary loop one will be about 10 feet pipe 1 inch pex barrier . garage loop will be about 40 feet total pipe  that copper and pex barrier. these are just my ideas after reading on net and with your tips . please feel free to give me pointers . I know I need put valves in for each loop and some air bleeders . I see they have 1 inch pex valves with drains in supply house that will make life easier.  Thanks for all the info . with bit of rain and delays boilers getting set this Saturday hopefully

Heat550 .

[slimjim]

Are your circs all on the return sides? If so air elimination would be easier to achieve if they were all on the supply side, also your domestic hot water could be done with a mono flow tee instead of a circ because you will want a constant flow through it without restricting the primary loop.

[heat550]

Thanks for the reply . The pump is on the incoming side now. That's how the old system was. I will read up on mono tee that's a good idea. I was looking lastnight and lines from stove are across the room from where all the plumbing need to be . so I'll keep primary pump at lowest point . but lines will have to go overhead to get to wall where all zone pumps and exchanger needs to be. The one for future baseboards exchanger plate will still be about 3 feet from primary pump though. Domestic water will be about 4 feet . primary pump right by the wall where lines come in the house. Building the systems going take bit of time.

Heat550

[slimjim]

It always does, post an updated drawing if you can.

[heat550]

It always does, post an updated drawing if you can.

Ok the pump is the supply side coming in .  I shorted the primary loop as I think that's wiser .  6-7 feet  is distance from the walls .
Ruff draft number 2 .  Im thinking of using pex 1 inch valves with drains for air bleeding and draining for future issues . on that mono flow does the secondary loop pipe have to be smaller . ?  will get more detailed drawing when I have more time .  Got boiler base already for putting boiler on tonight . Saturday is the day if no rain . next week order parts inside plumbing . See what you think of this layout . The fans on ex changers will be smaller . garage is kept 50f and bump it up when working out there .  House exchanger fan will be the biggest about 1000 CFM . 

Heat550
 

[slimjim]

Ok, why 2 hot water tanks? If you really think that both are necessary then they should be in parallel with a sidearm or use a plate exchanger. Next, the primary loop should be at least 1 1/4 copper if your air exchangers are going to be 1 inch and the future plate exchanger can be plumbed directly into the primary loop without a circulator.

[heat550]

Ok, why 2 hot water tanks? If you really think that both are necessary then they should be in parallel with a sidearm or use a plate exchanger. Next, the primary loop should be at least 1 1/4 copper if your air exchangers are going to be 1 inch and the future plate exchanger can be plumbed directly into the primary loop without a circulator.

Ok 2 water heaters are for off peak electric parallel it is . Line coming in from boiler is 1 inch . I could go 1 inch primary loop and 3/4 to secondary loops . Or would going from 1 to 1 1/4 in side have an advantage ? I like as much flow as I could get with 1 inch from boiler. I can valve off for plate ex changer 3 valves .

Heat550

[slimjim]

You have got it! The 1 1/4 will reduce resistance at the 90 s and tees

[heat550]

You have got it! The 1 1/4 will reduce resistance at the 90 s and tees

Ok I see now I can get by without a exspantion tank right.  And now I will have search 1 1/4.  would pex work. I m thinking copper would be spendy. Thanks for all the input. Will search 1 1/4 now . 😀

Heat550