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Author Topic: G400 Metal deterioration  (Read 53709 times)

ticapa

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2019, 02:45:34 PM »

Couple more answers The dealer quit selling Heatmasters after 2017.  New dealer in area who is trying but does not have the experience necessary to handle these complex issues and also has not bothered to come look at this unit with many invites.  I have dealt with Heatmasters warranty dept directly and also have found another contact who has been helpful too. 

Unit was not a "rebuilt" unit it had been to shows and sat outside on the dealers lot since May 2014.  Could this be why the SS steel is pitted?  In my metal/welding experience HELL yes this could be why and should have been looked into by factory and warranty dept.
Quote
Looks like pitting in the metal to me and that for sure isn’t a 1 year old stove, it looks like somebody was selling off some very old stock.
I brought this up to the warranty dept when I first found the pitting.  I was shot down!

("Ahh, does yours also have the cleanest door on top for the turbolators?

Far as the gap between the horseshoe refractory and the bottom of the top chamber, its supposed to be there, if the lower refractory fits too tight they will break. It does look a little excessive though.

I’m still not understanding where the bad spots are though, your’s is before my time. Personally though it looks more like corrosion if a little moisture mixed with some ash and made a weak acid.")

Yes Clean out door on top.  Yes excessive gap over plenum as they have since changed the design.  If I leave that gap open efficiency goes up the stack and shows with infrared thermometer in stack temps.   Yes I thought of moisture and ash making acid but I say impossible as we slowly build an ash bed with extremely dry wood to guarantee that is not the case.  If it is then it is a design failure and should be completely covered under warranty.

This stove is a complete disappointment in structural integrity from the get go.  But the most frustrating thing is a letter from the factory with a wrong date and accusing me of burning it too hot and causing the pitting that way! 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 02:47:21 PM by ticapa »
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2019, 04:12:18 PM »

Just so that everyone is on the same page here because anyone who knows me, knows that I despise HeatMaster, Jake Friesen and Ryan Friesen for what they have done to me over the years, they cost me more money than any of you will ever understand but the big thing that they cost me was reputation and friendship with my customers, I take that very personally and don’t forget! With that being said, ticapa, that stove model was a major issue for them that caused multiple change outs, if the corrosion was caused by moisture then it was likely because the bypass was leaking and constantly drawing air through the stove, it will never be right until the bypass door is sealed permanently. The large space over the refractory and below the firebox bottom was a result of the designers not taking expansion and contraction of the stainless into consideration, believe me when I say that I personally have had to smash many of those refractories out to change them after they cracked to crap, that one seems to have been cut after production. Burning too hot, get the heck out of here, what kind of excuse is that, if the boiler is full of water then how could it possibly heat the stainless steel to the point of compromising that stainless in any way, you would certainly see permanent warpage well before the pitting that we see on that stove! I’m guessing that somebody got a deal on some Chinese stainless. I wish you the best and as long as I don’t get banned again for exposing the truth then I’ll be here to help you with information regarding your boiler.
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2019, 04:58:19 PM »

Could we possibly see that letter?
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ticapa

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2019, 05:02:41 PM »

 :post:

SlimJim, First I hope you would not be banned for the truth!  That is why I am a member of this forum and monitor it to find the truth and a solution to the problem and the cause of the problem.

I would have never brought this issue to this forum but I have been a mechanic/fabricator for 25+ years and the factory response letter accusing me of "overheating " the boiler is wrong and insulting.  Example, of overheated steel is non better then 9-11 in NYC (God Bless all the men and women who lost lives and survived). 

Your explanation above makes perfect sense as the first burn season I had that bypass door out to reseal it several times at a cost to ME.  No reimbursement for warranty work performed by the purchaser.  Also in season 2&3 I fought with that door and did not get the bolt it shut or weld it closed factory recommendation until the fall of this year.  Again a Heatmasters fail in my opinion.  I have sent another e-mail/letter to the factory this weekend  voicing my frustration we will see if the respond and back up their unit as it should be.  My hopes are not high.
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2019, 05:20:43 PM »

Well my friend it has happened before, the banning I mean. It seems that some of the dealers on this forum get very upset when actual facts and photgrafs are posted about the products that they sell. I do not wish any of them any harm but only to expose the facts about some of the crap that I personally received, sold, delivered, installed and now can’t service by orders of Jake Friesen because of my posting some of those photos. I wish you luck sir and I’m sure there are several of those dealers burning the ear of Mr. Friesen to buy back that stove or replace it with a current model, you are on the right track! Keep it factual, honest and back up anything you say Please.
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E Yoder

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2019, 03:44:36 AM »

So to summarize things, your concern is the gap at the top of the lower brick, metal on the firebox floor, and the warped smoke bypass, correct?
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ticapa

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2019, 07:04:54 AM »

Quote
So to summarize things, your concern is the gap at the top of the lower brick, metal on the firebox floor, and the warped smoke bypass, correct?

Pitted metal top concern.  When measured is over 85% through on largest pitts.  Life span of the stove has become a very concerning problem with this issue.  How would you suggest I guarantee a 12 year minimum life for this stove?

Plenum space (gap) is next concern as this stove was researched and purchased on it's efficiency ratings.   They go right up the chimney when that gap is open as your stack temps reach high numbers.  High stack temp = poor efficiency on gasser correct?

3 burn season a bypass door warps that since new I had been fighting to keep sealed.  Made factory and dealer representatives aware of this sealing issue many times and not told to bolt or weld shut until the beginning of the 4 season and I had to build my own door.  So how much extra wood in 3 seasons has this stove cost me?  Just to give everyone an idea of my inventory we started this season with 30.19 FULL cords of wood stacked in shed.

Many other smaller issues that I have had to re-fabricate or engineer to make work.  ex. mounting of fan, electrical issues, etc. 

So yes three major concerns.
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mlappin

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2019, 07:38:21 AM »

For my own curiosity, what kind of temps are you seeing out of the stack?
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2019, 01:06:58 PM »

Why in the world would there be that much pitting in a stove that’s made with Titanium enhanced stainless steel in less than five years? Unless of course the factory perhaps made the same mistake with this one as they did with all those airboxes that rotted out on us because they mistakenly substituted mild steel for the Titanium enhanced stuff.
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E Yoder

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2019, 03:23:41 AM »

Like Marty said, I'd like to see specific stack temps.
My experience has always been when I've called them and talked it over they've always treated me well. Since it's running but you're not comfortable with it, I wonder if you could work out a trade next summer when heating season is over.
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ticapa

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2019, 06:18:23 AM »

Quote
For my own curiosity, what kind of temps are you seeing out of the stack?

I have never seen the low number they put in their flyer except right after the install start up.    I have seen up to 750 degree's when I am missing insulation over the top of the plenum.  500 let's me know I better be looking at the furnace and find the issue.  400 is where it usually runs.

Are you guys seeing lots of ash and material come out of you chimney's after a season of running?  I have 2 and 1/2 pieces of 8" insulated pipe and the material that comes out of this "green" clean pipe is to me unacceptable.   I do have a cap.   When I can get one of the boys to run the loader I will get you a good picture.  Also cause I know it will come out our wood is two season stacked before burned. it is dry.
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ticapa

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2019, 06:43:47 AM »

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I wonder if you could work out a trade next summer when heating season is over.

I realize most of you on here are dealers and I certainly respect that.  I myself have thought of becoming a dealer but between 75 head of black Angus, field crops, working equipment repair shop on the farm with my son's and a 40 hr week town job my time would never allow it.   I am not out here to cause you any harm on this forum.  I am just trying to get the proper fix to a bad purchase.  I had many reasons to buy this stove in 2016 and one of them was how much the dealer said the factory will stand behind their product.  The dealer (who is out of business now) had a very clean setup, a building stocked with parts, a good way to load and unload stoves, good knowledge of his product at the time and talked very highly of the owners.  When I was at his yard looking in 2016 he had a used stove that the company took out and replaced (G200 model) that was purely replaced because the owner had NEGLECTED the stove.  WOW! That was warranty to a guy like me and man that sold me at the time figured I had nothing to worry about if this stove was faulty they had my back.  Guess what it appears I was wrong. 

My stove has been meticulously taken care of cleaned, sampled water, ash in lower burn chamber always removed timely.  Shop vacuumed whole unit between each season.  Installed under a shed roof hell I even have washed the outside with soap and water. 

So now I hope you dealers on here are seeing why I have started this thread!  I am down right frustrated with the factories response to my problem it is UNACCEPTABLE.   To tell me overheating caused it was wrong!  SlimJim has made the most sense to my problem yet.  He has brought up a cause to my issues that makes common sense.  No one at the factory did that.  I also now realize from receiving the wrong by-pass door and plenum height to tank bottom problem that this stove design was drastically modified.

I have responded to the factory in written form to their letter to me.  I just hope in the weeks to come I can come to this forum with good things to say about Steeltech and their owners. Time will tell and we will see. 

E Yoder hopefully they listen to their respectable dealers trying to make a living from their product.
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2019, 09:43:23 AM »

Very well said sir!
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2019, 10:32:13 AM »

Just so that we are all aware, Eldon certainly knows of the issues with that model stove, I changed out one with the same issue in Pa on my way down to his dealer meeting years ago and he had another one there just like it that he had to cut holes through the front of to clean the air channels because they gummed up completely and there was no access to them. That stove should never have been sold before it was retrofitted.
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slimjim

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Re: G400 Metal deterioration
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2020, 10:38:25 AM »

Question to Marty and Eldon, what would you folks think was a reasonable stack temp on this G 400?
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