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[gas-on]

I have a Shaver 165 that we have used for 3 years now. I have had the same problem every year. When it gets below 25* outside it just can't keep up with my House and Shop. The house is forced air and the shop is radiant heat.  In the past I have spoken to Shaver and the floor heat people and they blame each other for the system not working. The floor is directly plumbed with a secondary loop from the stove. The stove just can't recover fast enough to keep up. The burn times on a full load of wood are less than 8 hous because the blower never shuts off. Does anyone have any ideas to help make this work better?

[JBG]

Welcome to the site!  Have you tried adding extra insulation to the furnace?

[Treewinder]

165 is only putting out at max 150kbtu s,   so I'd say your under sized especially since you have had 3 years to adjust and learn the system.

To confirm, isolate the shop and see what kind of burn times you get with just the house.


Ed

[yoderheating]

 I would say you need a bigger furnace.

[gas-on]

I told the people at Shaver how much space I was going to heat and they recommended this stove. I thought that if I did not let the floor water return directly to the stove that it would help with this problem.

[jimr]

I told the people at Shaver how much space I was going to heat and they recommended this stove. I thought that if I did not let the floor water return directly to the stove that it would help with this problem.

where would you direct it to?

[willieG]

if you have had this problem 3 years as stated then i would agree that you have had time to learn how to perate your stove. so the next question is the blaming each other thing...did you tell the OWB salesman how many square feet your were planning on heating (if yes he should have slod you a large enough unit)

did the floor heat installer actually install the floor properly (with at least 2 inches of blue foam (or equivelent) under your slab and up the edges to the top of the concrete?

also are your underground pipes well insulated (is there snow melting above them or is the ground unfroze when ground elsewhere is froze)

is your home and shop well insulated.

you can make a general assumption for your home that you require about 40 btu per square foot of living space and if your shop is 8 foot ceilings and well insulated then you can guess about the same amount of btu

a 2000 square foot home would need (easy figuring as your insulation value and not knowing your heat loss) about 80,000 btu per hour on those cold cold nights use the same kind of figuring for your shop and add the two together. it is my personal opinion that the manufacture rate their stoves quite high as when the test them they have everything about as perfect as you can have it, and i think that a stoves real rating is much lower than what they say. I am nto sure how they test them or rate them but i would make a guess they are likley only about 80 to 85 percent of what they claim

as for your infloor heat i would ask the same question, if you are not going to return the water to the stove directly where are you going to send it. you should be sending water into your floor loop only about 110 or less degrees and if it is properly designed it should be returning about 10 or 12 degrees less

[lugnut]

I have a Shaver 165 that we have used for 3 years now. I have had the same problem every year. When it gets below 25* outside it just can't keep up with my House and Shop. The house is forced air and the shop is radiant heat.  In the past I have spoken to Shaver and the floor heat people and they blame each other for the system not working. The floor is directly plumbed with a secondary loop from the stove. The stove just can't recover fast enough to keep up. The burn times on a full load of wood are less than 8 hours because the blower never shuts off. Does anyone have any ideas to help make this work better?

I would like to add my $0.03.5 here.  I'm  not seeing where you mention how many square feet you have to heat...I had originally ordered up a 165 Shaver for my house/shop...but after discussing the sq. footage with several people around here, they all talked me into going with the next furnace size up.  So I chase to pay the extra $900 and bought the Pro Series 250 Shaver.  My house is about 3600 sq. ft and the shop is a moot point because money was tight and I don't have it heated by the OWB. 

We too have in floor "liquid" heat in the office here at home and we have "nice" heat all the time.  however unlike your situation, our in floor heating came "before" the OWB...by about 5 years.  You mention the blower operating WOT all the time...there's another problem....you might want to consider getting an auto damper along with either a Honeywell Aqua-stat or a Ranco T-stat.  With either of these t-stats, you can set the differential for when the damper opens and or closes.  I have the Ranco and it WILL be in operation tomorrow morning.  When I got the Shaver 250, the company "forgot" to install the larger blower motor with the auto damper and I was continually burning wood just like you.

But be this as it is...it surely sounds to me like you have too small a furnace.  When You bought this OWB, did you go through a sales rep in your neck of the woods or did you talk directly with Shaver?  Or was the fellow's name Ben?

By the way, welcome to the forum.  Good luck with your situation, and I can tell you that you have come to the right website to solve your problems...lot so f knowledge available here and it's all free.

Lugnut

[gas-on]

I called shaver direct and they gave me another number to call, and yes it was Ben. I have work very hard to make this work. We put alot of time in the floor making sure it was properly installed using 2" blue board, solar guard and plastic below that. My house is 7 years old and is 2400sqft the shop is 1200sqft.

As where I would direct the water diffrently... What if I used a water heater as a tank and a heat exchager to seperate the direct flow of water back to the stove. Whenthe floor is running I only lose 6-8* through the floor but when it sits idle and when it first comes on the water temp could be 40-50* colder than the stove.

[jimr]

does your pump run on demand or 24/7?

[willieG]

I called shaver direct and they gave me another number to call, and yes it was Ben. I have work very hard to make this work. We put alot of time in the floor making sure it was properly installed using 2" blue board, solar guard and plastic below that. My house is 7 years old and is 2400sqft the shop is 1200sqft.

your home and shop using an average of 40 btu per foot per hour equals 144,000 btu per hour on those cold nights.  your stove (i read here) is only rated at 150,00 and i believe they are over rated by at least 15 percent (no proof just gut  feeling)

you need more btu to deliver

the eat load is onnly an average guess...yours could be more or less

[brink1963]

I do not know what you have your 165's water temp set at, but I also have a new 165 (with the auto damper) and I was experiencing the same issue during very cold temps outside. I had my temp set above 160 on the OWB. I tried setting it even higher but that did not work. I set the temp to around 140 and that seems to have helped the situation.

I was thinking that having the blower running all the time you keep injecting cold outside air into the fire box. Which made me think about running a tube from the blower intake to the smoke stake before it goes through roof of the enclosure (above the water tank) which could either be wrapped around the smoke stake to heat the air inside or maybe the tube could be placed near the stake so the the air it is sucking in and sending to the fire box is heated. Does anyone think the heated combustion idea would work?

[powerstroke]

I have thought of doing the same thing myself.  Bending up a box under the roof around the stack and pulling heat from around the stack before it is sent in under the grates.  I would think that when it is bitterly cold out that the air being sent in could have a cooling effect on the bottom side of the firebox.  Taking what heat you can off of the stack would be an efficient place to pre-heat it that's for sure.

[willieG]

powerstroke i have an 8 inch schedule 40 chimney, i have fabricated a 3 foot section of 8 inch with a 6 inch inside it, i plan on istalling this in my chimney next summer and pumping water from my stove around the chimney and back into the boiler. i am hoping to recover a lot of heat this way as when the furnace runs i know the stack gets quite hot. i am hoping ot increase my efficiency by at least 10 percent? if i put this right at the bottom of the chimney i dont think it will create too much of a problem with creosete. And this is R&D si uf ut fails i will jsut let teh water out and be doen with it..lol
 

[powerstroke]

That's why I love this site Willie........everybody is always thinkin!