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[Smokeless]

Shepardb yes  agreed the heat is from the tubes in back. Slimjim taught me to remove the check valves in the pumps that service the boiler. there could be dabree there. Ralph said he did not
Remove the check from his. Also i agree with Ralph  another circ on the boiler 007 will help equalize the internal temps of boiler water.

[ralphxj]

Shepardb yes  agreed the heat is from the tubes in back. Slimjim taught me to remove the check valves in the pumps that service the boiler. there could be dabree there. Ralph said he did not
Remove the check from his. Also i agree with Ralph  another circ on the boiler 007 will help equalize the internal temps of boiler water.

I will start by removing the check valve on the pump. If that doesn't help would I be better off adding a second pump on the other ports, or extending the top port further into the boiler? I can turn a 3/4in pipe to fit inside the 1in line and leave a shoulder so it doesn't slide in too far?? Extending the line would be cheaper then buying another pump.

[Smokeless]

Yes Ralph try the check valve removal first. N check for dabree. That would b cheapest.
Where are you located ?

[RSI]

If you are only getting 15 to 20 degree drop under load then removing the check valve won't do much.

Turning the pump around may work for a while but it will not last very long on the return line.

[ralphxj]

I'm in Youngstown Ohio. I'll pull the check valve first, maybe I'll get a chance tomorrow after the little one goes to bed.

Name is actually Aaron. Ralphxj is a username I've used forever, Ralph was my favorite Simpsons character.

Thanks everyone for all your help!! Now if I could get this many replys to my thermostat question in the electronics forum.

[Smokeless]

Good luck!!!  keep us posted.

[slimjim]

OK, I would like to chime in, I've been working on painting the Magic Bus so I've been busy but Please allow me to make a few suggestions.
 First, you definitely are having some flow issues, it could be circ size, air in the wood boiler loop, small pipe sizing, water not mixing in the boiler or a plugging heat exchanger but you definately have a flow issue!
 I drew this up this AM to try and help. I think first I would start with removing the check valve on the wood boiler loop and putting your make up domestic water line in between 2 valves as pictured in the diagram, close the return line and add street pressure water to the loop backwards, this will help clear any debris from the heat exchanger as well as eliminating any air trapped in the supply line, after you are sure you have good flow back to the boiler and no air is trapped then open the return valve, close the supply and repeat adding street pressure to the return and eliminate the air there, open both supply and return, turn circ on and check flow again.
 I realize that lots of you folks have in the past have had good luck with putting your heat exchangers in series but I think with the newer units that require high flow rates, you will need to adjust your way of thinking and start doing simple primary / secondary plumbing as well as using larger primary piping.
The plate exchangers will eventually plug up and in a series loop all components will starve for flow, in a primary secondary loop it will be easy to diagnose which component is plugging and clean it accordingly.
 Ralph, I also think adding a second circ on the back of the boiler will help stabilize your water temp in the boiler but I would try these suggestions first. I would not add a pipe into the inside of your unit because it will again restrict the flow and you don't want to have that increased.

[ralphxj]

Any tips for removing the check valve? Do they just pull out with needle nose pliers?

I will see what I can do to flush out the HXs.

The boiler will be moved after this winter, it will be around 120ft from the house. Would it be smart to just get the bigger pump I will need now and see if that fixes the issue? Or will I just be hiding.the issue until I move the boiler next year?

Slimjim, thanks for the info. Looking at your drawing, I'm seeing 4 diffrent pumps? My current setup is only running 2! One for the oil boiler and zones loop and one for the wood boiler loop. This is the first I'm hearing about monotee's, looks like my months of research on my system setup missed some options I could have considered.

[slimjim]

Needle nose pliers for the check but be sure to get the plastic seat that gets left inside the circ as well, this can be a bear but normally heating the circ housing will help with prying it out with a screwdriver, be sure to dump out any broken plastic stuck in the circ after removal.
 Yes each zone should have it's own circ in order to first control the heat and second to promote the best flow rate possible through the main heat exchanger.

[mlappin]

Any tips for removing the check valve? Do they just pull out with needle nose pliers?

I will see what I can do to flush out the HXs.

The boiler will be moved after this winter, it will be around 120ft from the house. Would it be smart to just get the bigger pump I will need now and see if that fixes the issue? Or will I just be hiding.the issue until I move the boiler next year?

Slimjim, thanks for the info. Looking at your drawing, I'm seeing 4 diffrent pumps? My current setup is only running 2! One for the oil boiler and zones loop and one for the wood boiler loop. This is the first I'm hearing about monotee's, looks like my months of research on my system setup missed some options I could have considered.

I take it your running the nominal 1” pex? As in the ID of the pex is actually under 1”? More like 7/8”?

A bigger pump can push enough water thru it, but if you add anything later, hot tub, snow melt, an addition you’ll be hard pressed to force enough water thru the smaller line.

Might want to consider getting either the nominal 1 1/4” pex or going with Logstor to get the higher flow without needing an expensive pump that will pull more juice for years and years.

Since I was already on the page, this is what slim was referring to as a strap on aqua stat, http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-L6006C1018-High-or-Low-Limit-Circulator-Strap-On-Aquastat-65-200F-range-5-30F-Adj-Differential-1738000-p


And you mono flo T: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-Monoflo1x3-4-1-x-3-4-Copper-Monoflo-Tee-6314000-p

[tinfoilhat2020]

i need to hire one of you guys to come redo all my plumbing inside when the time comes.....lolol....way over my head

[mlappin]

On a side note, what slim described with a primary/secondary loop is exactly what I’m in the process of changing over in the basement now. Mine was pretty simple though and worked for years, nothing but a sidearm and from their to the furnace HX.

Now I’m adding a 20 plate to the DHW so I always have plenty of hot water for washing equipment, already have the snow melt in and adding two radiant loops, one for the bathroom and another for the office. Once we get the upstairs remodeled and add another heat duct if we still ain’t happy with the amount of heat we get upstairs I’ll be adding another plate exchanger and building a mini pressurized system to get the hot water upstairs either for more radiant if I have my way and goto hardwood floors or baseboards if the wife gets hers and we stick with carpet.

[mlappin]

i need to hire one of you guys to come redo all my plumbing inside when the time comes.....lolol....way over my head

Think of it like this, your primary is the main electric line that comes into your breaker panel, your secondaries are the circuits attached to your breakers or fuses.

[ralphxj]

Needle nose pliers for the check but be sure to get the plastic seat that gets left inside the circ as well, this can be a bear but normally heating the circ housing will help with prying it out with a screwdriver, be sure to dump out any broken plastic stuck in the circ after removal.
 Yes each zone should have it's own circ in order to first control the heat and second to promote the best flow rate possible through the main heat exchanger.

I'll try to pull the check valve tonight, hopefully all goes well.

My house has 3 zones and only 1 pump. It's worked great since we bought the house 6 years ago, and it's been that way since the house was built almost 40 years ago! So you are saying I would be better off adding a pump to each zone?

I take it your running the nominal 1” pex? As in the ID of the pex is actually under 1”? More like 7/8”?

A bigger pump can push enough water thru it, but if you add anything later, hot tub, snow melt, an addition you’ll be hard pressed to force enough water thru the smaller line.

Might want to consider getting either the nominal 1 1/4” pex or going with Logstor to get the higher flow without needing an expensive pump that will pull more juice for years and years.

Since I was already on the page, this is what slim was referring to as a strap on aqua stat, http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-L6006C1018-High-or-Low-Limit-Circulator-Strap-On-Aquastat-65-200F-range-5-30F-Adj-Differential-1738000-p


And you mono flo T: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-Monoflo1x3-4-1-x-3-4-Copper-Monoflo-Tee-6314000-p

Right now I'm running 1in pex in my insulated lines. When the boiler is moved out to 120ft from the house, I will be going with 1.25in Logster. Inside the house everything is 1in copper. The 40ft of 1in that I'm currently running will be used for heating my shop when I need it, most of the time it will just be a simple loop to keep it from freezing.

I have no problems redoing part of the system in the house with monotee's next spring/summer, but I'm hoping to not have to do any major rework now, my wife already thinks I'm spending too much time tinkering with it

[tinfoilhat2020]

your just getting started...my wife thinks im nuts