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31
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Troubleshooting 101
« on: January 15, 2018, 12:48:04 PM »
I'm in IT Support, so one of our first questions to the end user is "Did you try rebooting?" They don't like to hear it, but sadly enough that often fixes the majority of issues.
The equivalent in the world of outdoor wood furnaces could be:
1. Take a full firebox load of wood and bake it in your kitchen oven at 250F for 8 hours.
2. Run this load in your stove and report back any problems.
Knowing this 12 years ago could probably have saved me a lot of headaches, backaches and heartaches.
I don't mean this to sound like a snooty jerk at all. What they TOLD us was dry wood, what we THINK is dry wood and what our moisture meter SAYS is dry wood, and what is ACTUALLY dry are sometimes very different. Water is a sneaky, cruel ba$t@rd. The only place it belongs is as a solid form in your favorite beverage.
Any other generic "Try this first" ideas?
The equivalent in the world of outdoor wood furnaces could be:
1. Take a full firebox load of wood and bake it in your kitchen oven at 250F for 8 hours.
2. Run this load in your stove and report back any problems.
Knowing this 12 years ago could probably have saved me a lot of headaches, backaches and heartaches.
I don't mean this to sound like a snooty jerk at all. What they TOLD us was dry wood, what we THINK is dry wood and what our moisture meter SAYS is dry wood, and what is ACTUALLY dry are sometimes very different. Water is a sneaky, cruel ba$t@rd. The only place it belongs is as a solid form in your favorite beverage.
Any other generic "Try this first" ideas?
32
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage comparisons
« on: January 15, 2018, 12:07:44 PM »
I didn't do anything fancy to know my approximate weights. Rubbermaid storage tubs from Walmart and the bathroom scale (needless to say the wife was not impressed). Measured how many tubs worth of wood I was using, weighed a few tubs and there was my approximation. You don't have to check every time. After a few days and different weather scenarios you can judge how much wood you're using and how much your logs and splits weigh. If you're unsure or if you change species, just fill the tubs and weigh them again before throwing that wood into the boiler.
Sure it won't come close to passing any engineering test, but with a bit of due diligence in measuring I think it's still more accurate than saying "I use 1/2 a firebox full a day every 8-14 hours".
I know it's still not perfect but it could help standardize troubleshooting when we're trying to diagnose problems over the web.
Sure it won't come close to passing any engineering test, but with a bit of due diligence in measuring I think it's still more accurate than saying "I use 1/2 a firebox full a day every 8-14 hours".
I know it's still not perfect but it could help standardize troubleshooting when we're trying to diagnose problems over the web.
33
The Wall Of Shame / Remember to turn it back on!
« on: January 15, 2018, 11:49:01 AM »
Happened last week. I had pneumonia so I was sick as a dog and the temps were -35C overnight. Went to fill the boiler for night. Turned it off, filled the firebox full, closed the door and went back inside to bed.
Woke up in the morning with a cool house and the water temp was down to 82F. What the? Get dressed and go out to the boiler shed. Checked the switch and it was turned off. Son of a #$%^&. Aaarrgghhh. I was so mad at myself. Spent the next 1.5 hours nursing it back up past 120F so it would stop condensing in the tubes. Went inside back to bed.
I seem to do this once a year and never when it's remotely convenient. TURN IT BACK ON WHEN YOU'RE DONE LOADING IT YOU DUMMY!
Woke up in the morning with a cool house and the water temp was down to 82F. What the? Get dressed and go out to the boiler shed. Checked the switch and it was turned off. Son of a #$%^&. Aaarrgghhh. I was so mad at myself. Spent the next 1.5 hours nursing it back up past 120F so it would stop condensing in the tubes. Went inside back to bed.
I seem to do this once a year and never when it's remotely convenient. TURN IT BACK ON WHEN YOU'RE DONE LOADING IT YOU DUMMY!
34
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage comparisons
« on: January 15, 2018, 10:41:03 AM »jreimer
Please quote a verifiable source that shows that 100 lbs. of spruce has the same btu's as 100 lbs. of oak, dried to the same MC. Are you saying it's absolutely invariant, or just that it's a second-order effect? I'll grant you, if you want to only dry for one season, you'll want to burn pine.
You're correct that they're not absolutely perfectly equal, with resinous woods having slightly higher btu's per pound than non-resinous. Some of the lesser desired woods (softwoods) actually have slightly higher btu's per pound than hardwoods!
However, I feel they are close enough that our back-of-napkin calculations can disregard these differences as irrelevant compared to other fudge factors.
35
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage comparisons
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:45:07 AM »
Smithbr, that's the beauty of using weight as the measurement. It takes the species out of the equation and we don't have to worry about what species you're burning compared to what species I'm burning. 100 lbs. of spruce has the same btu's as 100 lbs. of oak, it's just much larger physically.
However, moisture content is still an important factor though. 100 lbs. of 40% spruce will have much fewer btu's than 100 lbs. of 20% oak.
However, moisture content is still an important factor though. 100 lbs. of 40% spruce will have much fewer btu's than 100 lbs. of 20% oak.
36
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: Wood usage comparisons
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:30:31 AM »
I have some big tubs that I have filled and weighed. Then I know approximately what I'm putting in for that species and log size going forward.
37
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Wood usage comparisons
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:01:28 AM »
I would like to switch to weight when talking about daily wood usage. I find it pretty useless to talk about 1/2 full, 1/3 full or completely full load when there are so many variables to log length, split sizes, stove sizes and wood types. If we all talk lbs. of wood per load or per day, we can compare apples to apples when talking about wood usage, efficiency and heat loads.
Right now I'm burning around 150 - 200 lbs. of wood every 24 hours split over 3 fills.
Right now I'm burning around 150 - 200 lbs. of wood every 24 hours split over 3 fills.
38
Portage & Main / Re: Optimizer 250 / Gassing / Tenting Over Nozzle
« on: January 15, 2018, 08:51:27 AM »
Ok, I'll give it a go. Others will probably have differing opinions so YMMV, but this is what I have found.
The restrictor plate on the fan acts as kind of a global restrictor to limit the total air introduced into the system. I run mine quite closed down to 1/4" to 3/8". Any more open than that and I struggle with tuning it properly as that fan just creates too much air flow and pressure to gasify consistently.
The top primary plate limits the air flow into the firebox which will determine your rate of primary burn. With dry small splits it's surprising how little air is needed to keep things burning and coaling properly. I am burning very dry wood that has been inside the shed as well as some structured lumber cutoffs, so I have mine closed nearly all the way. It's a round plate covering a larger rectangular hole so the airflow is still there. I found it's very easy to add too much air into the primary firebox and blow the coals out of the nozzle and create a big hole and bridge. With a gassifier you need to be running an oxygen starved environment in the firebox to create the flammable gasses for the secondary chamber. Of course that also requires dry wood or the moisture will create too much steam in the primary firebox and kill the temperatures required for the secondary burn. If you are just blasting the flames into the secondary chamber using the air force of the firebox airflow, you're just running a gasser like a conventional and it won't work correctly. You'll get good gasification for the first bit before the wood starts to burn fully, then it will stop gassifying as all the gasses are being burned in the primary chamber, it will burn a hole above the nozzle and start bridging. I think too much oxygen in the primary chamber burns all of the coals and wood around the nozzle fully as the air is going from the primary to secondary chambers.
The lower plate restricts the secondary airflow into the reaction chamber. I have this set to 5 turns out. This one doesn't seem quite as picky to maintain gasification, but 5 turns for me is plenty to supply enough oxygen for the secondary burn. Any more and it just increases the stack temperature and blows coals up the tubes.
Keep your nozzle clean. Maintain a small coal bed, but not so much coal and ashes that the wood sits too high and creates a potential channel to burn out over the nozzle. Anything more than 2-3" and you're creating the opportunity for the wood to tent over the nozzle and not fall down so it's touching the nozzle and refractory because it's being supported on the sides by the ashes and charcoal. Stir the coals up once a day to bring the charcoal chunks up so they can burn so it doesn't get too deep. I clean the ashes out every week.
Long burns are actually ideal with gassers if they are tuned correctly. If it's gassing well at the beginning of the burn but stops after 10-15 minutes, I suspect the problem is too much air as the wood starts to burn too much in the primary chamber and it wants to burn like a conventional. I have mine tuned well and turned down to a slow enough burn that I am seeing stack temps of only 250 degrees with a good secondary burn and the nozzle glowing cherry red. It can burn this way for hours at a time and maintain gasification. Our natural inclination is to think that more air = hotter, cleaner burn = good. The light came on for me when I realized and accepted the fact that it's really counter-intuitive that you want to starve the fire of air to limit the rate of burn and make it burn cleanly. The nozzle is too small and restrictive to support a full burn in the firebox like you want from a conventional.
What does a typical burn cycle look like?
When does it gasify and when does it not?
What is your differential set to?
How often does it cycle?
It still sounds like your wood might be too high in moisture content. Can you post or PM me some pics what your coal and ash bed looks like as well as the "tenting" to see if that can help with further troubleshooting? Can you send pics of your logs and splits?
The restrictor plate on the fan acts as kind of a global restrictor to limit the total air introduced into the system. I run mine quite closed down to 1/4" to 3/8". Any more open than that and I struggle with tuning it properly as that fan just creates too much air flow and pressure to gasify consistently.
The top primary plate limits the air flow into the firebox which will determine your rate of primary burn. With dry small splits it's surprising how little air is needed to keep things burning and coaling properly. I am burning very dry wood that has been inside the shed as well as some structured lumber cutoffs, so I have mine closed nearly all the way. It's a round plate covering a larger rectangular hole so the airflow is still there. I found it's very easy to add too much air into the primary firebox and blow the coals out of the nozzle and create a big hole and bridge. With a gassifier you need to be running an oxygen starved environment in the firebox to create the flammable gasses for the secondary chamber. Of course that also requires dry wood or the moisture will create too much steam in the primary firebox and kill the temperatures required for the secondary burn. If you are just blasting the flames into the secondary chamber using the air force of the firebox airflow, you're just running a gasser like a conventional and it won't work correctly. You'll get good gasification for the first bit before the wood starts to burn fully, then it will stop gassifying as all the gasses are being burned in the primary chamber, it will burn a hole above the nozzle and start bridging. I think too much oxygen in the primary chamber burns all of the coals and wood around the nozzle fully as the air is going from the primary to secondary chambers.
The lower plate restricts the secondary airflow into the reaction chamber. I have this set to 5 turns out. This one doesn't seem quite as picky to maintain gasification, but 5 turns for me is plenty to supply enough oxygen for the secondary burn. Any more and it just increases the stack temperature and blows coals up the tubes.
Keep your nozzle clean. Maintain a small coal bed, but not so much coal and ashes that the wood sits too high and creates a potential channel to burn out over the nozzle. Anything more than 2-3" and you're creating the opportunity for the wood to tent over the nozzle and not fall down so it's touching the nozzle and refractory because it's being supported on the sides by the ashes and charcoal. Stir the coals up once a day to bring the charcoal chunks up so they can burn so it doesn't get too deep. I clean the ashes out every week.
Long burns are actually ideal with gassers if they are tuned correctly. If it's gassing well at the beginning of the burn but stops after 10-15 minutes, I suspect the problem is too much air as the wood starts to burn too much in the primary chamber and it wants to burn like a conventional. I have mine tuned well and turned down to a slow enough burn that I am seeing stack temps of only 250 degrees with a good secondary burn and the nozzle glowing cherry red. It can burn this way for hours at a time and maintain gasification. Our natural inclination is to think that more air = hotter, cleaner burn = good. The light came on for me when I realized and accepted the fact that it's really counter-intuitive that you want to starve the fire of air to limit the rate of burn and make it burn cleanly. The nozzle is too small and restrictive to support a full burn in the firebox like you want from a conventional.
What does a typical burn cycle look like?
When does it gasify and when does it not?
What is your differential set to?
How often does it cycle?
It still sounds like your wood might be too high in moisture content. Can you post or PM me some pics what your coal and ash bed looks like as well as the "tenting" to see if that can help with further troubleshooting? Can you send pics of your logs and splits?
39
Portage & Main / Re: Optimizer 250 / Gassing / Tenting Over Nozzle
« on: January 13, 2018, 04:28:28 PM »
Honda has sound advice. I would try splitting some of your wood into smaller pieces to see if it coals up better and collapses more readily into the nozzle. I have found that too much primary air also causes it to bridge more readily. With my 250 you can really cut down on the primary air and keep it gassing if your wood is dry enough. Too much air with dry small splits will cause it to backfire and whoosh as it begins to burn up instead of down. You really only want enough air to keep it smoldering and breaking down instead of burning upwards in the firebox. It will burn larger rounds and wet wood, but it will need a lot of primary air and it will have a tendency to bridge and not coal.
What are your restrictor plate, primary air and secondary air settings?
What are your restrictor plate, primary air and secondary air settings?
40
Central Boiler / Re: E1450 clogged heat exchanger tubes - creosote
« on: November 28, 2017, 01:03:00 PM »
I echo this for any gassers. As long as intake and exhaust are clean and clear everything runs great. Once buildup starts anywhere, things get bad in a hurry. There is very little room for tolerance with sticky mechanisms or plugged airways.
41
Equipment / Re: Work Gloves
« on: November 28, 2017, 12:49:46 PM »
I like the rubber coated lined gloves as well when it's cold (Which is most of the time here). When it's warm out I use the cheapo leather work gloves, but they wear out quick handling wood.
42
Portage & Main / Refractory fix?
« on: October 30, 2017, 11:36:21 AM »
I've been burning my Optimizer 250 for 5 years and I'm getting some degradation of the base refractory around the nozzle insert. Has anyone done repairs to the stock refractory? What would you use to repair this?
43
Portage & Main / Re: optimizer 250 nozzle
« on: October 30, 2017, 07:31:26 AM »
FYI, I measured the slot width of my spare factory 250 nozzle last night and it's 11/16" wide.
44
Hawken Energy, support only / Re: What's with Hawken?
« on: September 15, 2017, 03:30:00 PM »
I'm not sure what to think of this Hawken Newsletter they keep sending out. It seems a lot like "fake news" to me.
EPA Ban On Outdoor Boilers
PLEASE REMEMBER that the EPA has now BANNED outdoor wood boilers. Therefore...Once your boiler reaches its end of life...which hopefully will not be for decades,
...YOUR DAYS OF SAVING MONEY BY BURNING WOOD WILL BE OVER!
We want to help you keep your boiler running for several more decades - helping you SAVE money for many years to come.
This is why we spend so much time on providing YOU operating tips, maintenance information, and other valuable resources to keep your outdoor wood boiler healthy and durable.
Don't miss our breaking new report on steps you can take NOW to increase the life expectancy of your outdoor boiler. Click HERE to read this report.
For more information on the EPA rules on wood burning, click HERE. As you will see, most boilers are banned effective January 2016, and the remainder as of January 2020. Some claim to meet the 2020 "particulate" standard, but do not meet the other 2020 emissions limits. The technology does not appear to exist to meet all 2020 rules, hence the EPA has effectively banned outdoor boilers.
EPA Ban On Outdoor Boilers
PLEASE REMEMBER that the EPA has now BANNED outdoor wood boilers. Therefore...Once your boiler reaches its end of life...which hopefully will not be for decades,
...YOUR DAYS OF SAVING MONEY BY BURNING WOOD WILL BE OVER!
We want to help you keep your boiler running for several more decades - helping you SAVE money for many years to come.
This is why we spend so much time on providing YOU operating tips, maintenance information, and other valuable resources to keep your outdoor wood boiler healthy and durable.
Don't miss our breaking new report on steps you can take NOW to increase the life expectancy of your outdoor boiler. Click HERE to read this report.
For more information on the EPA rules on wood burning, click HERE. As you will see, most boilers are banned effective January 2016, and the remainder as of January 2020. Some claim to meet the 2020 "particulate" standard, but do not meet the other 2020 emissions limits. The technology does not appear to exist to meet all 2020 rules, hence the EPA has effectively banned outdoor boilers.
45
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: What is the best kind of cleaner to remove creosote on outside of stove?
« on: September 05, 2017, 11:53:32 AM »
I just use diluted ammonia in a spray bottle. Creosote wipes right off. I would think it would be safe for powder coated surfaces, but I use it on and in my airbox to clean the damper mechanisms.