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Author Topic: Have a gasifier? Share your story.  (Read 15636 times)

Big Wood

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 02:20:46 PM »

CB 2300 on a 11k sq ft school house built in 1906 some remodeling has been done it runs full out 195 -190 below 30 degrees 10 hour burn times over 30 degrees 12 hours on a full fire box load. 24" wood split hardwood ran out 3 weeks ago had a truck load of fresh off the stump come in and yes we are running it good luck to all until someone makes a dry fire box there will always be creosote to deal with
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Outdoor wood boiler repair and help

mlappin

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 03:01:51 PM »

To be perfectly honest guys, I would think with the greater efficiency of a gasser and the resulting savings in wood, a little extra time every couple of weeks to clean or do maintenance would be worth it compared to more time required cutting wood?
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kommandokenny

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 04:54:34 PM »

Good point all right!!
Nice trade off :thumbup:
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coolidge

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 05:30:31 PM »

2010 Optimizer 250.    First three years heating 3700 sqft and DHWI fought with it everyday during burning season,finally got some drier wood and jumped the learning curve, added another 1200 sq ft this year and couldn't be happier, 10 degrees and below an easy 12 hour burn, 20 and above 16 hours, no major problems, wear items.
Very happy with the boiler, 15 minutes a week cleaning.
Wood is not the best,seasoned for 1 year at most, maple oak, birches,ash.   3 year plan shaping up nicely.
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Belknap

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 09:00:55 PM »

I am on my second full year with my empire pro 400 heating 8000 Sq Ft. in NH.  I have been very happy.  Last year being my first year there was some trial and error.  My wood was not very well seasoned and I had low quality wood.  I had quite a lot of problems with bridging.  This year with good wood I have not had any problems.  With temps in the -10 range I was getting 8 hours on a load of hardwood.  With temps now in the 20 I can get 10 hours on 3/4 full load.  I have run low on wood so I am currently burning maple and ash that I cut in septemeber and am not having any trouble.  I clean the tubes once a month.  It takes about 30-45 minutes depending on how much time I have.  This boiler only holds 125 gallons but with it running correctly I have no problems.  I have large radiant zones in my barn and when they call I will see the temp drop about 20 degrees before it starts to recover.  I run the settings at 175 on 180 off.  This small differential helps the recovery time.
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Jwood

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2015, 10:18:18 PM »

Let's be honest about them gassers to they are a bit over priced well so was my Bl for something so simple to cost half a new car is just silly in my mind. I've talked to lots of folks who ask about my boiler and when I tell them the prices of the new gassers or even the price I spent installing mine myself they are floored! Like I said some may disagree but it doesnt cost anywhere near over 10k to build these units.
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slimjim

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2015, 02:20:12 AM »

You are correct Jwood at least to an extent at least but I think there are a few things you are forgetting about, let's follow the progress through it's stages shall we.
 1st stage is Research and development, it costs money to have engineers on the payroll to design the stove, sometimes this is an ongoing effort that takes many years, the companies at the top never stop in that effort.
2nd would be in house testing, you can probably imagine how many units end up in the scrap pile just because somebody forgot something or didn't think the design through, engineers are a lot like doctors and lawyers, they may be doing what they do all their life but regardless of how long they have done it they are still just practicing and again just like doctors or lawyers most have very little real world knowledge or common sense.
 3rd Marketing, I can tell you first hand that setting up a booth at a county fair to show your product never mind a real trade show that charges a premium for a cramped space is very expensive, for instance, Common Ground fair in Unity, Maine last year cost P+M $1,000 dollars for a 2 day show, TCI in Hartford, Ct. Was I think a bit over $3000 and rarely do we sell enough at the show itself to pay the gate fee, most sales are done at a later date by office staff that by the way has to be paid for.
 4th warranty, this is a very important part of doing business as the manufacturer would be a fool if he thought every unit off the line was going to be perfect, there are going to be glitches in the process and money needs to be set aside for those glitches, I think this is where many companies fall short and then fold which now makes it harder again for the good companies to make sales.
 5th in the field testing, this is very important and can be expensive for a first run of a new product, keep in mind that where most of the units are made, there is very little hardwood and most companies used softwoods for in the field testing, there are a lot of variables with different species of woods and this is where we find a lot of the issues with a new product line.
 6th Manufacturers in the lab testing, you can probably understand that setting up a lab to pre test units headed for the EPAs lab is not cheap in material costs and then add on the cost of the technician that watches the results, not cheap!
 7th EPA lab testing, at this point there are only 2 EPA certified labs here in these United States, they kind of have the market cornered and can charge outrageous amounts of money for the testing, pass or fail regardless of whose fault a failure is.
 8th Education for the customer, yes an owners manual is sent out with every unit, who reads them, I for one never do until I run in to an issue rather it is a wood boiler or a new chain saw, I think that has a lot to do with our testosterone levels :bash: therefor most good companies will reach out to their customers on a regular basis to check in on their progress, this takes time away from sales in the office and must still be paid for. This site has again done a lot for this industry in this aspect!
 9th Dealer markup, yes believe it or not, I don't think there is a single dealer out there that promotes a product without expecting a profit back, most dealers work on a very tight margin of $1000 - $5000 dollars depending on the unit, typically if a dealer offers you a deal that is not sanctioned by the manufacturer, it is coming out of his own profit margin and perhaps he no longer sees a profit so he dumps what he has in stock and gets out. This hurts us all including the customer!
 10th and finally is the manufacturers profit, a company / manufacturer would be a fool to not make enough profit on it's product to pay for all of the above and not still have enough left over to put money away for it's next product, I would not want to do business with a company that didn't take all of these factors into consideration, would you?
  thank you my friend for the opportunity to explain those things to you so the next person looking for a new unit can take all those factors into consideration before they buy!
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Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

Jwood

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2015, 02:55:45 AM »

Ya no I totally get it I just think with those prices its going to be hard to ever take over the indoor woodstove market. I know this site us full of those that have made the switch myself included, but let's face it the price of the boiler and then figure on some who don't know how to install themselves well when you start talking $15-20,000  on a new setup to heat your home, that is so unappealing to most. For people looking for a cheaper way to heat their home, well it is quickly becoming not an option.
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slimjim

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2015, 03:12:47 AM »

Agreed but that cost is what it is, perhaps it is by design by the government to take another liberty from our citizens, it is certainly not from the greed of the manufacturers or dealers and should be noted as such, there will always be folks who are willing to invest for the future by getting off the tete and being independent, that is simply the market that we will need to attract, besides you have no idea how many site visits I have done where a person balks at the cost of an OWB but has a new boat in the yard or new Harley in the garage, some folks simply will never get it, you were one of those that gets it, investment in your personal future is what it should be about, congratulations again on your investment!
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ijon

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2015, 03:18:35 AM »

People spend their money in different places. I would rather spend my money where it will save me money.
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slimjim

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2015, 03:19:23 AM »

LIBERTY !!!!!!!!!
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Jwood

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2015, 05:21:52 AM »

You are correct slim it is about prioritys and some get and some dont.
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kommandokenny

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2015, 06:42:09 AM »

Ya no I totally get it I just think with those prices its going to be hard to ever take over the indoor woodstove market. I know this site us full of those that have made the switch myself included, but let's face it the price of the boiler and then figure on some who don't know how to install themselves well when you start talking $15-20,000  on a new setup to heat your home, that is so unappealing to most. For people looking for a cheaper way to heat their home, well it is quickly becoming not an option.

Bingo.........

These things are too expensive for the average Joe .
15, 20 grand?? and then you finance it on your mortgage, buy a splitter,, etc etc .

Next door neighbour has a small house with a $800 cast iron wood burner in the basement.
Hes got a little fan on the back of it and some functional ductwork going up through the floor .
Cuts 2+ cords in the back yard and is good to go.

If he won a 15,,or 20 k lottery he's putting a Harley in the garage or more likely a new pickup.truck
No one would expect, or believe it, if he went out and spent it on a boiler to save some money in 10 years.
Everyone up here burns wood, or subsidizes with wood.
I know of 3 boilers in my immediate area.
Probably a few more around.

Big farm with a write off yes, but most farmers can write there heating cost off to begin with.
Who needs to babysit a boiler along with all the other chores
The market and sales can't be that good around here??
Still glad I did it........ but not for those prices!!

Just got outta bed,, coffee kicked in ..........

kk
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mlappin

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2015, 07:39:01 AM »



Big farm with a write off yes, but most farmers can write there heating cost off to begin with.
Who needs to babysit a boiler along with all the other chores


kk

I can only write off heating costs for the shop and if I wanted to be anal the percentage that it takes to heat the farm office in our house, can only write off a hundred percent of the heating cost of the house if the office is in it and if part of the agreement for our hired help is they get room and board and were living in the house. Since my wife doesn't get her income from the farm but lives in the farmhouse it's no longer a hundred percent farm use. The IRS is anal with stupid little regs that even gives a lawyer a migraine.
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kommandokenny

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Re: Have a gasifier? Share your story.
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2015, 07:50:23 AM »

Must be fun at Tax Time eh...

My point was, the average guy is not buying one of these.
 And it is just gonna get less and less an option,, as the price and regulations increase.
kk
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