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16
Electronics / Re: furnace fan generator connection
« on: December 26, 2012, 06:10:22 AM »
RSI - yes my long winded explanation was that I simply converted the cut-off switch on my furnace to a plug and outlet. To cut power to the furnace I would unplug which also makes for easy generator use. The more I think about this with the power back-feed situation it is really no different with any other outlet in my house. If I would by some whim plug in a generator to an outlet using a male-to-male plug then yes I am back feeding power to my panel. The plug and outlet arrangement on the furnace doesn't reallly change that fact. I was kind of put out by the inspector over this but that was not the only thing I disagreed with on his assessments but it is the nature of their work to nit-pick and raise red flags...
kc
kc
17
Electronics / Re: furnace fan generator connection
« on: December 22, 2012, 08:44:22 PM »
I understand what you guys are saying about the possibility of backfeeding power if the socket approach is mis-used. I would know not to do it but when I sell the house someday it may not be understood. I just like simple. I believe I will go with the plug and socket approach in the short run and look into a 3 way switch long term as I can plan and budget for it. What I don't want to do is not be prepared when the power goes out and have to scramble to get things to work. I appreciate the input and perspective...
kc
kc
18
Electronics / furnace fan generator connection
« on: December 21, 2012, 09:45:26 PM »
We just had a round of crazy winds here the last couple days which although we didn't lose power some did and it got me thinking about being prepared. I am close to firing up an Earth 505 which is wired with the whole stove to a single power plug that could easily be plugged into a generator if the lights go out. But my house furnace is a different story and the fan would also have to run if the power is out. In my previous house I had re-wired the furnace cutoff switch to a plug and socket much like the Earth stove where I could unplug the furnace from the incoming power line and into a generator. I remember the ice storm of 2009 (and wind storm of 2010) and being out of power for nearly a week both times and that setup and a generator came in pretty handy.
But when we sold that house and the inspector saw this arrangement he went ballistic and made me put the switch back in. I even had an electric contractor in later and got much the same response. I can't remember which one said it but there was a comment something about power "back feeding" to the breaker panel. While I am not an electrical engineer I am kind of having a hard time understanding that and want to know what you guys think about such an arrangment. The only way I can see power back feeding into the panel is if the generator was plugged into the socket which was connected to the incoming power from the panel to the furnace. Of course what I did was unplug the furnace from the incoming power and into an extension cord back to the generator - hence nothing was connected to the incoming power socket at that point. Am I crazy or are they? Am I overlooking something obvious or is this one of those cases of a common sense solution doesn't make sense to "professionals". In short - do you guys see anything wrong with the incoming power on a socket and the furnace on a plug in place of a cutoff switch?
kc
But when we sold that house and the inspector saw this arrangement he went ballistic and made me put the switch back in. I even had an electric contractor in later and got much the same response. I can't remember which one said it but there was a comment something about power "back feeding" to the breaker panel. While I am not an electrical engineer I am kind of having a hard time understanding that and want to know what you guys think about such an arrangment. The only way I can see power back feeding into the panel is if the generator was plugged into the socket which was connected to the incoming power from the panel to the furnace. Of course what I did was unplug the furnace from the incoming power and into an extension cord back to the generator - hence nothing was connected to the incoming power socket at that point. Am I crazy or are they? Am I overlooking something obvious or is this one of those cases of a common sense solution doesn't make sense to "professionals". In short - do you guys see anything wrong with the incoming power on a socket and the furnace on a plug in place of a cutoff switch?
kc
19
Plumbing / Re: heat exchanger install opinions
« on: December 18, 2012, 09:22:47 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys. I am at the point of the HE install and barring an impending extended belayed xmas shopping spree I hope to install the HE this weekend. I started Sunday but with HE in hand and looking at the best fit in the duct on the supply side the exhaust tube from the furnace make it awkward to install just above the burner and the condensation line from the A-coil is in the way above. So I ended up diverting to insulating and running the pex in my crawl space which will connect to the HE. But I think the best bet on the HE install is to cut the condensation line and re-do after sliding the HE in just below the A-coil. Devil is always in the details. After the HE install the only thing left is installing the plate exchanger for the hot water heater and connecting all of the plumbing lines together. Fill her up, leak test, add chemicals, and fire her up before new years'. That will be worth a pop of the bottle!
kc
kc
20
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: age
« on: December 05, 2012, 09:15:24 PM »
49 and newbie to OWBs. Just moved out to a place with some land and burned a fireplace insert last winter and although it cut my heating bills some I didn't like how the living room was nice and warm but the rest of the house was like a meat locker. Plus the mess and smoke in the house and having to load the small firebox every few hours I thought it was time to do it right. I also like cutting wood and have plenty of it as I am surrounded by woods. But I may need to find some buddies who like to cut, split, and drink too as I will need to do more to keep up with the new beast...
kc
kc
21
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: loving my new earth mountain man 500
« on: December 05, 2012, 08:59:18 PM »
Moparevers,
I am doing the install myself and don't have her fired up yet. Poured my pad about a month ago, went and picked her up on black Friday, set her on the pad the next day, and this past weekend dug the trench and put the insulated pex in the ground. Got my furnace heat exchanger today and have been going over the details on how to hook up the hot water, furnace, and garage and will start on that phase this weekend. I am located in northern KY and when I get her going I will post my experience. I think it will be another couple of weeks before I finish and fire her up. I ended up picking out the 505 over the 365 for the extra capacity. After the initial install I have 2 or 3 other things I may hook in and thought the larger firebox and water jacket would be a big plus...
kc
I am doing the install myself and don't have her fired up yet. Poured my pad about a month ago, went and picked her up on black Friday, set her on the pad the next day, and this past weekend dug the trench and put the insulated pex in the ground. Got my furnace heat exchanger today and have been going over the details on how to hook up the hot water, furnace, and garage and will start on that phase this weekend. I am located in northern KY and when I get her going I will post my experience. I think it will be another couple of weeks before I finish and fire her up. I ended up picking out the 505 over the 365 for the extra capacity. After the initial install I have 2 or 3 other things I may hook in and thought the larger firebox and water jacket would be a big plus...
kc
22
Plumbing / Re: heat exchanger install opinions
« on: November 29, 2012, 06:43:06 PM »
RSI,
The dimensions I stated above are a tad off. The width actually measures 20.5 on the inside so if the heat exchanger is truly 20" wide it should hold it. Are the dimensions on an HE usually a little wider than stated? One the other hand 19" wide should work too...
kc
The dimensions I stated above are a tad off. The width actually measures 20.5 on the inside so if the heat exchanger is truly 20" wide it should hold it. Are the dimensions on an HE usually a little wider than stated? One the other hand 19" wide should work too...
kc
23
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: loving my new earth mountain man 500
« on: November 28, 2012, 09:51:00 PM »
I am right there with you! My 505 is here and just waiting for me to finish her install and fire her up!! It will take me a little longer but my house should be toasty warm by Xmas...
kc
kc
24
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: 20 yr old OWB just failed: recommend brand/model to replace?
« on: November 28, 2012, 09:47:10 PM »
I'll second the nod for Earth furnaces. I just picked mine up last weekend and after studying stoves over a couple of months I feel they make a simple, sturdy, quality, and reasonably costed stove. I too wanted to steer clear of the gasification stoves and stick with a simpler design. I ended up going with a 505 which is their larger unit in that I am looking at eventually hooking up 5 or 6 HEs and felt I needed the extra capacitiy. But their 365 stove goes for $4300 which is a lot of stove for the money and a very attractive price compared to others I looked at. I can't comment on performance yet but my expectations are high...
kc
kc
25
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Sitting pretty!
« on: November 28, 2012, 09:34:17 PM »
It feels like it has been a long road since I first "warmed up" to the concept of owning a OWB to now where she is sitting pretty on her pad waiting to be hooked up and fired up. Just in time for Santa!!!
kc
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kc
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26
Plumbing / heat exchanger install opinions
« on: November 28, 2012, 09:26:41 PM »
Well I picked up my mountain man 505 over the weekend and she is sitting pretty on her pad waiting to be hooked up and fired up. I am installing my underground pex this weekend and on to hooking up the hot water and furnace there after. But I still need to finalize my furnace heat exchanger selection. From what I gather the most straight forward place to install would be above my existing Ruud furnace and below the A-coil on the AC (see picture). The duct work there is 20x20x12 so there is plenty of room for a shelf and a slide-in install. But my brother-in-law who helped me set the stove on the pad and does sheet metal work was recommending I install the HE on the return side. The return duct is approximately 12x23 and he offered to rework the duct making transitions to accomodate a larger HE. Also my filter is at the base of the return so if we install on the return side that would place the HE before the filter and when I pointed that out he said we could move it. What do you guys think? Is it worth the trouble to rework the return side or go with the simpler slide-in route between the furnace and A-coil? Thanks again for the infinite wisdom that flows from you guys on this site. It is really a good feeling to be able to figure this stuff out and do most (maybe all) of the install myself...
kc
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kc
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27
Plumbing / Re: heat exchanger for sun room
« on: November 15, 2012, 08:00:12 PM »
Interesting thoughts guys. I never even thought of a cast iron radiator but that could be a possiblity. I like the idea of "quiet" heat that base board or a radiator would provide. Seeing your ideas I just did a quick google search and ran into a question "which is better: base board heaters or cast iron radiators?". Interesting answer - a combination of both. They claim there are base board heaters that are made of cast iron rather than steel. I'll have to keep researching for specifics. I really appreciate the ideas!
kc
kc
28
Plumbing / heat exchanger for sun room
« on: November 14, 2012, 08:06:06 PM »
As I am working on a design for my upcoming system a new need has popped up which is heating a sun room. My wife is keeping some of her animals there and is running an electric heater 24/7 which to me screams it needs to be part of the new system. The room is 14'x19' with about 10' ceilings. With all of the windows it is not well insulated and I have calculated needing around 16k BTU heating capacity. My question is what would be the best type of heat exchanger to install? I would hope for something relatively small in size and maybe something hung up out of the way on a wall or from the ceiling. Is a unit heater like for a garage the best bet? I have noted there are "kick space" heaters which are smaller in size but I don't know if there are any that could handle that capacity. Would baseboard be worth considering? Any insight would be appreciated...
kc
kc
29
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: best $ i spent
« on: November 13, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »
I hope to be joining you guys in the bliss in the next month or so. She is ordered, pad is poured, but still got to figure the the HEs, run the pex, and hook it all up...
30
General Outdoor Furnace Discussion / Re: furnace install near woods
« on: November 08, 2012, 06:43:42 PM »
I am torn between the 365 and 505. Pretty much the same but the 505 has another foot of firebox and 80 gallons more in the water jacket. I think the 365 would work but the extra capacity of the 505 may be nice too as I am considering up to 6 different heating applications...