Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Pools & Hot Tubs => Topic started by: donahuej on January 13, 2012, 04:00:50 PM
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Couldn't resist...I heat my 18x36 in ground with my boiler - works great!!
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Im going to heat mine one day. My honey do list is only about three pages long right now.
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Sounds like my list abarton
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I heat my pool to
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I probably shouldn't post this, but, here it is. Our pool is a Wally World $150 piece of crap, 16' in diameter and 52" deep. To heat it, I loop 200' of black 3/4" garden hose inside it and tie it down with bricks and nylon tie straps. We've done it this way for about 5 years now. It takes about 2 days to go from a bit over 50* to 85* The same year we started doing it, we bought 4-100' 3/4" hoses on clearance $19 each, so we have very little into it.
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i have a 18,000 gal in ground pool- thinking about heating it in the spring, what would be right way to hook it up and what think it would cost?
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m-44 a stainless heat exchanger....It's easy to set up the major issue will be water flow. Meaning if you use your main pool pump like i did you will need to turn the boiler down or have an adjustable speed pump on the boiler side...think about it for a second 300-600 gallons of boiler waterer transfering heat to 18k.....slow flow is the key...
Jamie
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I bought one of those store built pool heaters before I got a wood boiler. propane model. Hooked it up and when I fired it up almost seems like I did not make it ten steps away from it and it had just about sucked the bottom out of the tank. Man those things like the gas. Just glad I only wasted $400 on it. It worked fine but the only problem was I dont have a propane well in the back yard. I have wasted a lot more money on a whole lot less in the past im only glad the wife got to enjoy it and has forgotten about it. RIP pool heater
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I have a 18x36 pool, hooked up to a water to water HE with the boiler. The boiler circulator is 220 and is hooked in series with the pool pump so the circulator will only run if the pool pump is running AND I have the circulator switch on. I tried it last spring with the pool water at maybe 50. I could get a 5-6 degree increase per day but I made the boiler work hard :-). Lots of energy. Solar cover on a reel is used for most of the 'heating'. Propane would cost a fortune. With the OWB it would probabbly be OK once you get the pool to 85 especially if you keep the boiler running for DHW anyway.
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i have read on the net that a pool cover can save you 50 to 75 percent of your pool heating costs. also i would think heating a pool efficiently would require insulation uner and around yoru pool? I dont have a pool and wonder do installers do this?
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Determine the average temperature for the coldest month of use.
Subtract the average temperature from the desired temperature to get the temperature rise needed.
Calculate the pool surface area.
here is a quote from a pool heating site
Use the following formula to determine the Btu/Hr output requirement of the heater.
PoolArea x TemperatureRise x 12
This formula is based on 1° to 1-1/4° F temperature rise per hour and a 3-1/2 mph average wind at the pool surface. For a 1-1/2° F rise multiply by 1.5. For a 2°F rise multiply by 2.0.
The heating load is also affected by other factors such as wind exposure, humidity levels and cool night temperatures. Pools located in areas with higher average wind speeds at the pool surface, lower humidity, and cool nights will require a larger heater.
This calculation will give you an approximate size. You should have a trained professional perform a proper sizing analysis for your specific pool.
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I have a 24 foot round pool that I am going to try something on this year. I made a solar heater out of black plastic pipe and that helped but it was slow to increase the temp. I just want to be able to get the temp up to get in the pool about 3 or 4 weeks earlier and stay in it 3 or 4 weeks later. During the summer the temp stays fine but I just want to add a few extra weeks.
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thats me, summer fine, i'd like to heat pool up earlier in spring.I'm checking on price parts needed. Is the wood usage about same as heating house in winter??
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I setup a cement tank (500 gals) connected to a shell exchanger when I setup my owb. Have a 1 degree aquastat connected to a circ pump and keep it at 105 all the time. The "little woman and i were in at 0530 this morning with the temp at -5. We do not use any chemicals so I drain it twice a week.
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I have a shell in tube heater hooked right up to the boiler through a zone valve. Works great.
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i have a 10 plate heat ex and it works great!
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I have been heating my 500gal hot tub for three years now with a tube and shell hx and it works perfectly. We just installed an inground 45,000 gal pool and filled it last Labor Day. I have a tube and shell hx on that also. I just hooked it up temp last year to try it. It worked great BUT I can see it using LOTS of wood. The pool had no problem sucking my 6048 water temp down rather quickly. I installed the 150 degree bypass thingy that CB gave me with my boiler to the pool line. Played with the ball valves to regulate the flow.
When you install the hx for your pool do yourself a favor and INSTALL BALL VALVES on your inlet and outlet pool water side so you can regulate it.
This spring I will be fine tuning my install with temp controls.
Funny it was mentioned.......I asked my pool installer if we should/could insulate the hole before we sprayed the gunite and insulate the lines in the ground to prevent heat loss and he looked at me like I was from Mars :)
I did have 2 seperate lines installed for future solar heat.
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I made a pvc by pass valve it cost 5$ to make its more like a mixing valve so i can controll the temp. The "thingy" dirtryder is a thermastat. You need that to take the load off the wb
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Marty, we had a guy lay black hose on his roof, several hundred feet, his water has gotten to 190 entering the pool....
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Marty, we had a guy lay black hose on his roof, several hundred feet, his water has gotten to 190 entering the pool....
That's my next step and why I had 2 extra lines run to my pool.
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Marty, we had a guy lay black hose on his roof, several hundred feet, his water has gotten to 190 entering the pool....
In the summer I do this too. I have 300' of black hose I run on the roof. I use the tee off the pump before the filter. This way I use the extra head pressure to circulate this water without another pump needed. I got a thermostate with a remote (wired) sensor. Whenever it detects the roof temp is above 90F it opens an irrigation valve and allows the flow. Very inexpensive. The thermostate was like $30 I think and the valve was $20. Most expensive part was all the hose.
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muffin, what is the brand of thermostat and valve that you use?
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im going to try and build a shell and tube hx for my pool. ill let yall know what not to do when im done with it
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im going to try and build a shell and tube hx for my pool. ill let yall know what not to do when im done with it
lol, what type of water do you have? Clorine or salt water? Be carefull if it is salt, really limits the materials you can use.
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muffin, what is the brand of thermostat and valve that you use?
I got it off ebay. There are lots of them and they come in a couple different versions depending on the power input.
search for "Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat". They are black with an orange bracket on the side. Sometimes called a "Mini Digital Temperature Controller Thermostat Aquarium Incubator (-50~99°C)". They are typically under $20 with shipping. So far mine has been rock solid, 2-3 months operation. Very easy to use.
I just used a standard 3-way zone valve from pexsupply. You can get them in 24VAC or 120VAC versions depending on what you have available.
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I heat a 20 x 38 inground gunite pool and spa 26k gallons off my central boiler. Ran from April 1st to November 15th or so. in CT.
The diagrams and advise from central boiler does not work. It took a long time and much trial and error to get the proper flow and to keep the boiler from running down from 180+ to 100 degrees in a matter of 4-6 hours. I used several MP Flat Plate heat exchangers 20 and 40 plate (very expensive)... the outputs are too small for 2" pool plumbing and you end up with a mess of a plumbing job.
Switched to a Triangle tube heat exchanger w/ 2" FPT connections for the pool and a few extras and control it all from my Pentair Easy Touch pool control system. This opens and closes my circularity pumps from the boiler. It;s not perfect and uses a massive amount of wood to heat the pool, but it works. Located in CT so it gets cold at night.
Interested in what others are doing for larger inground pools. We did my friends house with a 33k gallon pool too.
I may be make yet more adjustments next spring - adding a second heat exchanger to help pre-heat the water then run it through a second exchanger. Plumbing this is a hassle.
Also installed 4 CPVC high temp pipes in the bottom of my pool just for pumping hot water into at night. Works good but was expensive to plump as the pipe and fittings are expensive. Only wish I put pex into the concrete before we shot the shell - like in floor heat. Think this would have been a good solution. I was already framed and rebar when I thought of it.
Did the pool, electrical and plumbing myself.
Am interested in what others are doing in this area. Are you finding the thermostatic valve helps. Dont really understand the function of this part.
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I only heated my pool from labor day last year till begining of Nov.
This is the HX I have, the SS650: http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters2.htm (http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters2.htm)
My pool is estimated @ 40k gal+ Once I fiddled with the flow going through the HX it worked really well. I had no controls on it because I knew in a short time I would be winterizing my pool. I just plugged my circ pump when I wanted heat, un plugged it when up to temp. I could fill my 6048 with wood, go to work, and come home to a boiler that needed wood but not empty. If I had to guess, I would say 30 to 40% of my pool pump discharge went through my HX then mixed back with the rest. I had approximately 100 degree water dumping into my pool. The thermostatic valve seems to be a "must". If I did not have this, my boiler would drop like a rock on temp. It works just like a car thermostat in the cooling system. If the water coming from the boiler is less than 150 it will return to the boiler and not flow to the HX. As the water temp rises, it allows it to flow. I know once my boiler dropped to 150 it would go no lower but never really recovered a whole lot either. But, it must have been heating because my water out of the HX was always hotter than water going in and my pool was always warm when I got home. Had it up to 85 degrees in Sept just to see how it would work.
This year, I am going to control the boiler water into the HX with an aquastat and 3way valve. I am also going to put a 24 hour clock timer on my control wire to the transformer for my valve so I can let the boiler "catch up" . I'm thinking maybe 3 hours on, 30 to 60 minutes off. When I get all hooked up this spring, I'll take some pics of the set up.
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I heat a 20 x 38 inground gunite pool and spa 26k gallons off my central boiler. Ran from April 1st to November 15th or so. in CT.
The diagrams and advise from central boiler does not work. It took a long time and much trial and error to get the proper flow and to keep the boiler from running down from 180+ to 100 degrees in a matter of 4-6 hours. I used several MP Flat Plate heat exchangers 20 and 40 plate (very expensive)... the outputs are too small for 2" pool plumbing and you end up with a mess of a plumbing job.
Switched to a Triangle tube heat exchanger w/ 2" FPT connections for the pool and a few extras and control it all from my Pentair Easy Touch pool control system. This opens and closes my circularity pumps from the boiler. It;s not perfect and uses a massive amount of wood to heat the pool, but it works. Located in CT so it gets cold at night.
Interested in what others are doing for larger inground pools. We did my friends house with a 33k gallon pool too.
I may be make yet more adjustments next spring - adding a second heat exchanger to help pre-heat the water then run it through a second exchanger. Plumbing this is a hassle.
Also installed 4 CPVC high temp pipes in the bottom of my pool just for pumping hot water into at night. Works good but was expensive to plump as the pipe and fittings are expensive. Only wish I put pex into the concrete before we shot the shell - like in floor heat. Think this would have been a good solution. I was already framed and rebar when I thought of it.
Did the pool, electrical and plumbing myself.
Am interested in what others are doing in this area. Are you finding the thermostatic valve helps. Dont really understand the function of this part.
I have a shell in tube heat exchanger. The system works very well, but it does put a huge load on the boiler as it should. You are loosing an enourmouse amount of heat to the ground. If I do this again, I am going to find a way to insulate the pool from the ground. The thermostatic valve is there to protect the boiler and should be installed wether you have a pool or not. It hurts your heating, but saves your boiler. It will shunt the water back to the boiler if it detects the outgoing water is below 150*F. Supposedly this is the temp that the weater will be too cold and damage the internals.
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I only heated my pool from labor day last year till begining of Nov.
This is the HX I have, the SS650: http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters2.htm (http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters2.htm)
My pool is estimated @ 40k gal+ Once I fiddled with the flow going through the HX it worked really well. I had no controls on it because I knew in a short time I would be winterizing my pool. I just plugged my circ pump when I wanted heat, un plugged it when up to temp. I could fill my 6048 with wood, go to work, and come home to a boiler that needed wood but not empty. If I had to guess, I would say 30 to 40% of my pool pump discharge went through my HX then mixed back with the rest. I had approximately 100 degree water dumping into my pool. The thermostatic valve seems to be a "must". If I did not have this, my boiler would drop like a rock on temp. It works just like a car thermostat in the cooling system. If the water coming from the boiler is less than 150 it will return to the boiler and not flow to the HX. As the water temp rises, it allows it to flow. I know once my boiler dropped to 150 it would go no lower but never really recovered a whole lot either. But, it must have been heating because my water out of the HX was always hotter than water going in and my pool was always warm when I got home. Had it up to 85 degrees in Sept just to see how it would work.
This year, I am going to control the boiler water into the HX with an aquastat and 3way valve. I am also going to put a 24 hour clock timer on my control wire to the transformer for my valve so I can let the boiler "catch up" . I'm thinking maybe 3 hours on, 30 to 60 minutes off. When I get all hooked up this spring, I'll take some pics of the set up.
I installed the blower on my 6048. So far just from visuals, it seems to be holding temp much better. I think with the pool, the load is just too much for draft alone.
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When it comes to heating an outdoor pool.... You all could put a lot more heat in your pools using the power of the sun and black hose, it may take a bit of hose but it's truly free heat
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I didn't read every reply here but noticed a few mentioning using flat plate heat exchangers. The brazing in flat plates in not compatible with chemicals in pool water and the heat exchanger will fail eventually.
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I got my flat plate pool from cb
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They sold it to you as a pool heater? Is it not brazed at the edges like a normal one? If it is, I would check with your pool chemical supplier to see if what you are using with compatible with copper / brass. If it isn't, I would try getting them to exchange it for a proper pool heat exchanger.
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Pool exchangers aren't flat, at least none ive seen. People will sell you whatever, but if it's a regular style plate exchanger it's sure to fail with chemicals. Pool heat exchangers are expensive and folks try to get by with plates and eventually pay the price
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Stainless for the pool exchanger - reasons mentioned above......
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A lot of people have salt water pools these days. SS is not rated for this. You need the titanium or nickle-ca(?) versions... and yes, they are expensive.
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I only heated my pool from labor day last year till begining of Nov.
This is the HX I have, the SS650: http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters2.htm (http://www.heatexchangersonline.com/poolheaters2.htm)
My pool is estimated @ 40k gal+ Once I fiddled with the flow going through the HX it worked really well. I had no controls on it because I knew in a short time I would be winterizing my pool. I just plugged my circ pump when I wanted heat, un plugged it when up to temp. I could fill my 6048 with wood, go to work, and come home to a boiler that needed wood but not empty. If I had to guess, I would say 30 to 40% of my pool pump discharge went through my HX then mixed back with the rest. I had approximately 100 degree water dumping into my pool. The thermostatic valve seems to be a "must". If I did not have this, my boiler would drop like a rock on temp. It works just like a car thermostat in the cooling system. If the water coming from the boiler is less than 150 it will return to the boiler and not flow to the HX. As the water temp rises, it allows it to flow. I know once my boiler dropped to 150 it would go no lower but never really recovered a whole lot either. But, it must have been heating because my water out of the HX was always hotter than water going in and my pool was always warm when I got home. Had it up to 85 degrees in Sept just to see how it would work.
This year, I am going to control the boiler water into the HX with an aquastat and 3way valve. I am also going to put a 24 hour clock timer on my control wire to the transformer for my valve so I can let the boiler "catch up" . I'm thinking maybe 3 hours on, 30 to 60 minutes off. When I get all hooked up this spring, I'll take some pics of the set up.
I installed the blower on my 6048. So far just from visuals, it seems to be holding temp much better. I think with the pool, the load is just too much for draft alone.
It is hard to see since I do not have a sensor on the line directly, but I think it is helping a lot. For one, I can burn my wood down to coals no problem. I would recommend adding the blower for sure just based on that. Before, even with a couple well burn logs left it had trouble holding temp.