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[bronco79]

Hi everyone I am new to the forum n am going to purchase a owb in august. I am doing a lot of research n my head is spinning. a couple questions everyone might help me with... 1st I live in western new York n I have a 1900sq ft home newly built n well insulted... questions are... #1 being in new York I have seen that no one in new York can sell older style boilers, that they have to be epa approved. Are the epa approved boilers better than the not-epa approved boilers. I would be willing to go to ohio to purchase a woodmaster or another brand if that were the case. cost is almost double for epa approved. #2 does anyone in new York install non-epa approved boilers or service them still. Any info would be greatly appreciated thank you

new guy

[RSI]

EPA boilers will use less wood and smoke a lot less. They do require more maintenance and dry wood.

If you do decide to try getting a non approved boiler and want it installed, you could just have them do the installation in the house and leave the pipes sticking out of the ground. That part will be the same on either type. You will just need two pex connections and 120v at the boiler either way you go.

[Speed]

If he were to do that with a non epa, would he be in violation of local laws? Would they shut him down and require him to replace with epa model anyway? I'd hate to see OP buy one and be shut down right away. I would suggest looking at local laws first.

[bronco79]

I live on a Indian reservation where EPA n nys laws don't apply to us. In this case is a good thing in other instances can be a really bad thing.  This is the reason I am leaning towards a traditional boiler . Heatmaster 5000 to be more specific. Any input on that boiler would be greatly appreciated.

[MattyNH]

If he were to do that with a non epa, would he be in violation of local laws? Would they shut him down and require him to replace with epa model anyway? I'd hate to see OP buy one and be shut down right away. I would suggest looking at local laws first.

..Well the only way he would be caught if someone made a complaint...If he lives in the middle of the woods..He should have no problem..

[kybaseball]

I have a heatmaster 10000E for my house. My house is little over 5500 square foot. I have no insulation in the walls. The stove works awesome. I have kept up with all my bills since i installed the stove and have the proof that it saves you a truck load of money. Before I had to go on a budget payment just to pay my elertic bill each month and that was usually $500-$550 a month. That was all year around and if i was off the budget it would have run like $900 a month. I now have bills in the winter that are less that $150.00!!!!! And as far as wood it uses very little each day. We keep our house on 75 in the winter and the wife loves it. I am going to quess and say proable around 5 to 6 cords of wood last winter. We keep our house at The stove has been awesome and the service that i get with Heatmaster is great any questions that i have a dealer will jump right on it and help me out.

[bronco79]

Thanks for the input kybaseball. Ive pretty much done all the research n asked all the questions and have my heart set on the heatmaster 5000. very excited and looking forward to the purchase and the money saving. 20 cords of dried cherry n hard maple waiting for cold winters of buffalo area. cant wait

[RSI]

If you are exempt from New York laws, just go to the local dealer. They should be able to order one and install it if you want them to.

[Scott7m]

There good units and you'll be very happy with it.   

[kybaseball]

You will love it!!! Have fun gathering wood and saving all the money from the power companies.

[johnybcold]

I am in MA and I know someone that had to buy another unit because they found his was not EPA, even when I installed my e1400 I got a stop order saying I could not use it until it was inspected and conformed to be correct. EPA units do cost more$ but be sure no one will ever see the unit or rat you out.

[Scott7m]

I am in MA and I know someone that had to buy another unit because they found his was not EPA, even when I installed my e1400 I got a stop order saying I could not use it until it was inspected and conformed to be correct. EPA units do cost more$ but be sure no one will ever see the unit or rat you out.

The laws on reservations are totally different than common land laws.  Many of the rules/laws here do not apply on those lands.

[scarface77]

I live in Pennsylvania and I know people with old and people with EPA phase 2. I've herd more complaints about the EPA phase 2 units, a lot of maintenance, hard to keep going, very time consuming. Not many complaints and the old conventional style. Thats why I went old school. In many states that require EPA phase 2 units only, look into a unit that has grates and a ash pan and purchase it as a outdoor coal furnace if you decide to go old style. No EPA emissions on outdoor coal burners in many states also if the btu's are 350,000 or more the also makes them legal. I learned this on Shaver's web site and then purchased a earth outdoor furnace and its easy to maintain and operate.

[Roger2561]

Unfortunatelt, some us have nosey neighbors (they are retired and have nothing else better to do with their time) and have no choice but to comply with the law.  I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty (born and raised on a farm) so 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes in the evening to stoke it ain't nothing.  Heck, I spend more time getting ready for work than it takes to stoke my OWB.    Yes, it's EPA compliant.  When I was first learning my OWB, it went out a couple of times but that was because of my doings, not something wrong with the OWB.  Now that I have a good handle on it, it never went out last winter.  If this new EPA commish gets in that Obama wants, every state will need to be EPA compliant.  The last I heard (may be a rumor, I haven't been able to confirm story) VT has a bill before the legislature that every person without an EPA unit will need to upgrade or suffer severe fines.  I am hoping this is just a rumor for VT OWB operators sake.   

[CountryBoyJohn]

Indiana is an EPA Phase 2 state.  The Indiana Codes states that when a dealer delivers a stove, they have to give a copy of the code to the homeowner AND they can't leave the stove until the new owner has signed a form stating that they have received a copy of the state code.  That code is what tells you what you can and can't do with your boilers.  Indiana also has the 350,000 BTU allowance for conventional boilers. 

Now, the Indiana EPA does not have any "teeth" in the law.  They cannot "shut you down."  I found a document online from a summary of public hearing comments from before the law was passed, and several people who were against wood boilers alltogether, commented ans asked the EPA what they can do to "enforce" the law.  Their answer was basically, we can't.  There is no fine structure, no penalty structure and no funding to "patrol" the countryside.  They stated that they operate under a "neighbor complaint" type policy.  Even after they receive a complaint, there really isn't any force behind the statute.  All they can do is horass you.  You may look up the New York code and read the fine print.  I happened to order out of state and got a conventional boiler.  I heard from a dealer who often sells boilers across state lines that he has gotten letters from the Indiana EPA asking him to stop it.