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[scarface77]

Had a major problem and finally got it fixed. Replaced the crappy 3 wrap underground pipe I purchased and replaced it with logstor, what a major difference !!! The repair job was expensive, had to rip out 2 sections of sidewalk, drain the furnace, rent a jackhammer, backhoe, and a forklift to pick up the furnace, dug up 75 ft. ditch to remove the crappy 3 wrap pipe, bought 6 ton of screening in witch I put a 8 inch layer down first, installed the new logstor and covered that with about 8 inches of screening. The total repair cost me around $2000. bucks !!! When I removed the 3 wrap it was waterlogged, the insulation crumbled apart like dry leaves. I new I had a major problem last winter when the furnace ran constant and when it did snow I always had a 75 ft. clear path where the 3 wrap pipe was installed and I had it buried 3 ft. deep. My neighbor's though I shoveled a path out to the furnace, that's how much heat I was losing. This logstor pipe is amazing, the furnace is fired up and up to temp at 180, no leaks. They shouldn't even sell that 3 wrap crap !!! I hope other people don't make the same mistake I did, buy logstor!

[atvalaska]

good on ya.... 2000$ is cheap in these parts!

[jamesbodeis]

How did the 3 wrap get water in it?

[scarface77]

My guess is when I backfilled the line I didn't use sand or screenings and a couple rocks punctured the outer case. The soil where I live is shale and rocky.

[automan77]

I have a double tile  on my 3 wrap .

[jamesbodeis]

Just wondered. My 3-wrap is doing the trick so far. Single tiled.

[scarface77]

Well good luck with the 3 wrap, 5 wrap, whatever, in my opinion and experience hard lesson learned go with the logstor from the beginning, or replacement, its amazing, the earth mt. man 500 burns like a hour and idles close to 4 hrs. 

[RSI]

What kind of 3 wrap did you have? There is a big difference in quality of some stuff out there.

[slimjim]

I would say that over the past 10 years that I have moved 100,000 feet of Logstor and had 1 single issue, an electrician drove a rebar anchor through the Logstor under a Radiant slab in a commercial building, I don't think that could possibly be considered a Logstor issue, Yes guys Logstor is pricey but in the long run it is the cheapest pipe you will ever buy, because it is the only pipe you will need to buy or dig a trench for.

[ijon]

From early experience I would think if you use three wrap insulation you put it in genova plastic. I don't trust tile not to have leaks.

[mlappin]

I would say that over the past 10 years that I have moved 100,000 feet of Logstor and had 1 single issue, an electrician drove a rebar anchor through the Logstor under a Radiant slab in a commercial building, I don't think that could possibly be considered a Logstor issue, Yes guys Logstor is pricey but in the long run it is the cheapest pipe you will ever buy, because it is the only pipe you will need to buy or dig a trench for.

Ugh, how'ed you ever go about fixing that? I imagine the slab was already poured before it was realized somebody fubared.

[slimjim]

Against my recommendation, they cut the slab and Radiant loops, dug down and patched the Logstor underground, It would have been far better in my opinion to simply abandon the Pipe and run a new one on the outside of the building which is what I suggested to begin with, This was an engineered job so what do I know?

[BoilerHouse]

The 3 wrap failed because  the plastic O pipe it sits in failed.  Logstar has better O pipe but  any type of pipe- Logstar, 3 wrap, 5 wrap can still fail.  The single best thing one can do, regardless of type of pipe, is to properly back-fill the trench. A bed of pea gravel, then pipe, then  cover the pipe with sand or gravel a good 6 to 10 inches, then carefully back-fill the trench with the excavated material.

[martyinmi]

The 3 wrap failed because  the plastic O pipe it sits in failed.  Logstar has better O pipe but  any type of pipe- Logstar, 3 wrap, 5 wrap can still fail.  The single best thing one can do, regardless of type of pipe, is to properly back-fill the trench. A bed of pea gravel, then pipe, then  cover the pipe with sand or gravel a good 6 to 10 inches, then carefully back-fill the trench with the excavated material.

   Brilliant post!!! Proper back filling is a must to pipe longevity.

[atvalaska]

having never seen /other than pic's of 3/5 wrap ...I can't  see ANY value other than price... it looks to me like "arsto foil and or reflextix"  wrapped around the pipe an stuck in a black tube  .....worthless at r1 a inch  by itself !......along with, No reflective value at all  =  it suzks ....  I have thermopex  as that's what w got around here ...i'm amazed....a  120' loop and zero to a <1/2 degree  heat loss ( hel! I can say 185 in 185 out -cause  my serial #ed   probes  only flash 179.5 cause it aint fell  there yet!)