Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Equipment => Topic started by: WoodMOJoe on February 18, 2014, 07:54:35 PM
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Lots of opinions here on oil types and mixing ratios but was wondering what you folks thought about gasoline?
In particular...
Is it a good idea to use ethanol-free fuel if possible?
And what about octane? I think all the "regular" gasoline (87 octane) around here has at least 10% ethanol, but believe you can get "mid-grade" (89 or possibly 91 octane) fuel that is ethanol-free. Does it hurt/is it beneficial to run a higher octane (over 87), whether it has ethanol or not?
I have a brand new, never fueled Husky 455, planning on using Husqvarna 2-stroke oil @ 50:1 and would like to put it on the best fuel diet I could to start with and keep it there. Hoping it lasts as long as my 30 yr old Stihl 028.
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I have the same saw, use husky oil, mix 40:1 (from the manual) and use super unleaded, always try to keep the fuel fresh, no problems but I have only had the saw about 9 months, the same formula worked for my Jonsereds, had that 12 years and it still runs great.
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To much ethanol will hurt your saw. Stihl has said it voids your warranty. It is either 20 or 30% is bad. Stihl has launch a campaign against ethanol for small engines.
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Stihl recommends using 89 octane fuel. Lower octane will cause detonation I believe they claim. I buy their synthetic oil, when I bought a new saw and a Kombi last year if you buy a six pack of the synthetic premix oil they will double your warranty. I mix 50:1 as per recommended by Stihl.
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Most small engine dealers now sell pre-mixed ethanol free gasoline for use in 2 stroke motors. It's ridiculously expensive, but if you don't saw all of the time and want to protect your equipment, then it might be worth it to you.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/TRUSOUTH-Trufuel-50-1-Pre-Oil-Mix-6525638/202532877?N=5yc1vZbxc9 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/TRUSOUTH-Trufuel-50-1-Pre-Oil-Mix-6525638/202532877?N=5yc1vZbxc9)
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Most premium at the pump around here is ethanol free and in the low 90's octane range. The SEF (small engine fuel) that Judd mentioned is premixed and basically VP racing fuel premixed with 2-cycle oil and is in the 90's octane range too. Only place I priced it, it was $6/quart or that is $24/gallon :bash:
Look for a stock car racing fuel distributor. The ones around here have either 5-gal prefilled cans, or my local has a pump and sells it by the gallon with my own container (they also sell in 55-gal drums!). Octane is higher and my distributor charged $8.25/gallon. :P
I talked to the former VP distributor (retired) and he suggested to buy ethanol free premium and mix it half and half w/the 110 octane racing fuel along with a premium synthetic 2 stroke oil. I have not tried that but he was in the business for a lot of years and would get the cost down around the $6/gallon range! :-\
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This is Stihl side of the story.
OPEI Rolls Out Ethanol Education Campaign - GIE+EXPO 2013 Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqrEIY8VOGM#)
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Since Stihl says to run 89 in their equipment, I simply use only that in everything. And my oil is the Stihl 6 pack in the black bottles. Have not had any issues. Ethanol free gas is not easy to be found in the Baltimore area. Every so often some 100LL Avgas finds it's way into my stuff as well. At least in the lawnmowers and Farmalls!
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Since Stihl says to run 89 in their equipment, I simply use only that in everything. And my oil is the Stihl 6 pack in the black bottles. Have not had any issues. Ethanol free gas is not easy to be found in the Baltimore area. Every so often some 100LL Avgas finds it's way into my stuff as well. At least in the lawnmowers and Farmalls!
When I take the time to go get it I like AV gas in my saws and generator, seems to last a long time without going stale.
I have a small Echo saw that runs fine on av, but will not idle. Can't figure out why. when I switch back it idles fine.
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thanks to all for your input, some good stuff there.
Here is something I found this morning:
Today, Husqvarna launched the Ethanol Challenge, an animated, online quiz designed to help educate consumers on the effects of ethanol as well as prevention of ethanol-related product issues. Husqvarna has issued the Ethanol Challenge in order to provide the tools for consumers to gain awareness about ethanol, in hopes that education can help them maintain and care for their Husqvarna equipment.
Ethanol fuel is an alcohol additive that is commonly used in nearly all gasoline in the United States. It can be used in all current Husqvarna equipment, however, Husqvarna recommends using at least 89-octane E10 gasoline, which is the mid-grade between regular and premium gasoline.
Fuel that is labeled E15, E20, E85 and diesel fuel are not acceptable alternatives to E10 and will cause significant damage to Husqvarna outdoor power equipment. Product owners should look for an indicator at the gas pump to make sure they are making the right choice. Not all states require that the ethanol level be identified at the pump.
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/outthere-news/take-the-ethanol-challenge-by-husqvarna/ (http://www.husqvarna.com/us/outthere-news/take-the-ethanol-challenge-by-husqvarna/)
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One thing I do as well, in slower times of the year I add Stabil right away, if I know I won't be using the saws much over the summer I drain the gas out of the tank, then run the saw till it dies.
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When I take the time to go get it I like AV gas in my saws and generator, seems to last a long time without going stale.
I have a small Echo saw that runs fine on av, but will not idle. Can't figure out why. when I switch back it idles fine.
That's why I like the avgas.... Just a little mixed in seems to keep pump gas a long time. Never have bad gas issues......gasoline that is ;D
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I use ethanol free 91 octane in all my small engines. There are 4 stations in my town that have it so it is easy to get. I have had no problems for about 5 years since I started using 100% gas. With 10% ethanol I had rusty carburetors and my brother burned up a MS 360. The problem with the ethanol is mainly shelf life. It absorbs water from the atmosphere and will form crystals & gunk from the water over time. 10% ethanol max is ok if it is used within a month or two. Keep it fresh, run your engines out of gas if not using for a month. Stabil is good, but I have had better luck running dry than using it.
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Still, toro and several others have ethanol documents on what happens. Ethanol is a very aggressive 110 octane solvent more than it is gas. It takes 21 days in average Michigan weather to degrade from 91 to 86 octane. Longer in winter. Humidity plays a big role and only perfectly sealed metal containers can prolong ethanol life. As ethanol was originally designed to attract water from gasoline, similar to dry gas. Since it's also a great desiccant , the more humidity the faster ethanol degrades and wants to turn back to its plant like state.
Unfortunately here in MI the only place you can get non ethanol is Marinas , where boats on the water are considered a life critical use, and they can't afford to have failures and strand people on the water. Thus NO damaging ethanol sold at marinas for boats. Alaska is the same way, but the whole state is considered life critical to have dependable fuel.
Any of these new pro saws should have the motomix or stihl fuel, it's not worth the risk of one bad fill up. There are plenty of brand new farm boss and similar on craigslist for sale that are only slightly used. But seized. Every 10% ethanol leans out the ratio 3%.
Lucky with drag race tracks nearby, we have easy access to VP or Turbo Blue. Often they will sell cheap the last few gallons of a 55 gallon drum, and if stored properly that race gas will last MANY years, as long as it's not the oxygenated nitro fuels. It doesn't take much of C16 to blend with pump gas to be plenty safe, just mix for an octane of 94-100 range. Any higher and the saw doesn't have the compression to take advantage of the high test.
Most importantly real gas and race gas smells way better than nassty ethanol junk.
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I use 100 octane sunoco cam 2 and klotz oil in my saw. Smells sooooo goood and the saw loves it!
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Yes the smell. There is one station that sells non ethanol, but it smells stale and didn't work very well in my boat. I never went back for more of it at that station. It should smell like real gas. You definitely know when you get 100% without ethanol. Some may be to young to remember the smell of real gas.
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100ll ave fuel and 89 midgrade mixed 50/50 for me
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I only use ethanol free gas in my small engines they perform better. Its lots cheaper than new equipment to by the better fuel.
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I use 91 octane non-ethanol gas in all my small engines, both 2 and 4 stroke. When fall gets here I fuel the lawn mowers, motorcycles and any other engines that won't be used for a few months with av gas. I don't have carb issues any more since I started doing this.