Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Username: Password:
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: problems using 500 gal. propane tank  (Read 6750 times)

newmod

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
  • OWF Brand: HOMEMADE
    • View Profile
problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« on: November 02, 2014, 08:56:51 AM »

Has anyone had any problems using 1/2 a propane tank for the fire box?  We had some problems welding the tank to the faceplate of the fire box.  Any place the tank was welded to regular carbon steel we had more leaks.  I heard the you have to heat the propane tank prior to welding it because it is a high carbon steel.  Hope I don't have any problems in the future between the welds.  Do not need any leaks in this thing.  Thanks
Newmod
Logged

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4140
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2014, 10:57:40 AM »

Never heard that about a propane tank before, I know others have used them.

What were you welding it with? If I have to do any stick welding and want a good seal I like to use 7018.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

newmod

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
  • OWF Brand: HOMEMADE
    • View Profile
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2014, 11:49:03 AM »

Using a mig welder with 035 wire. 
Newmod
Logged

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4140
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2014, 12:58:50 PM »

Using a mig welder with 035 wire. 
Newmod

Er70s6? Coated or uncoated wire? How many amps is the wire welder?
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

newmod

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
  • OWF Brand: HOMEMADE
    • View Profile
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 04:12:55 PM »

 ::)Its a millermatic 250.  Not sure what we were running at.   not sure on wire either
Logged

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 04:26:46 AM »

I certainly am not a pro at welding but when I try to weld a rust hole in a boiler, I start off on a low temp setting to plug the hole or seal a bead and then make another pass at a higher heat, it seems to me that if to much heat is used before sealing the leak then the corrosion comes right through the weld
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4140
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 06:52:41 AM »

Sounds like you have enough welder for the job.

I like to use a needle scaler on metal before I run the first bead on anything that needs to be sealed. Needle scaler will remove mill scale and other stuff a wire wheel might miss.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 06:53:32 AM »

Have you ever used a flap disc grinder?
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4140
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 07:01:17 AM »

yep, usually on stuff that needs to look pretty like bodywork.

Usually have a hard time keeping them around though, Father or the help tend not to change them out for a hard disc then try to remove too much material with them then they are done.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2014, 07:02:29 AM »

Don't I know about that! and they are not cheap either!
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

vpd66

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2014, 11:33:21 AM »

Well here is some facts on mig welding. Its real easy for someone that is handy to learn to mig weld good enough for simple welds on say angle iron,square, and round tube, but to weld up something with water tight welds take some knowledge and talent. Porosity,undercut,poor fit up, and cold lap are the most common problems. Not to mention the 3 transfer methods of mig welding and how to use them and where to set your machine. Short circuit transfer is the most common form of mig welding and is done on 3/16" thick and under steel. Anytime your under 20 volts and 300 ipm wire speed (this all varys with different machines.) your in Short circuit. It sound like bacon sizzling. Once you start getting up over 20 volts and 300 ipm wire speed your starting to get into Globular transfer. The sound won't be has smooth has Short circuit and you will see more spatter and the spatter will be bigger balls that will be harder to remove. Globular transfer is real tricky to weld in because it sounds vary different then Short circuit, but can provide good welds when setup right. The final transfer method is Spray transfer. When and how to get into Spray transfer has a lot to do with how many amp machine you have and what type of gas you are using. Spray transfer will just hiss (hence the name spray) when running it and will run real hot with a real nice smooth weld bead without spatter at all. To get into Spray transfer you need at least a 250 amp machine and 95/5 or 98/2 argon/co2 shielding gas. I have the same Millermatic 250 welder and with .035 wire and 80/20 gas I can just barely get into Spray transfer.
So now that I'm done with all the theory lets apply it to your weld situation. A propane tank should be a minimum of a 1/4" thick but most likely 3/8". the front of your boiler is somewhere between 1/8" and a !/4'". So you should be welding it in Globular transfer. You could weld it in Spray transfer if you have the correct gas and know how to set your welder for it (would be my preferred method if I used mig). Spray transfer because it welds so hot can only be done in the horizontal position. So most likely you were welding it in Globular transfer and like I said is the hardest transfer method to weld in. You must have all the mill scale cleaned off the joint and have good (tight) fit up. In my experience I would have welded with 7018 stick. I find it much easier to get water tight welds with it.
Logged

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4140
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2014, 12:51:43 PM »

There is another method you can use as well with spray transfer and that is a tri gas containing oxygen although I've heard it said that the O2 can cause porosity problems. I hear you though on having to be in a horizontal position with spray transfer. A good overhead hoist helps tremendously. I've built two previous boilers using spray transfer and .045 wire but also used a tri gas, didn't have any porosity problems like I've heard about. Would like to try it again with 95/5 and skip the O2. Regardless of how you try spray transfer you want a VERY good gun, one on it's last legs won't live very long with the amount of heat generated.
Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana

vpd66

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2014, 11:32:47 PM »

So true about the gun. Also use a copper nozzle, not the brass style. When welding in spray transfer you also keep a lot larger wire stick out. That helps the gun live longer too.
Logged

slimjim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 158
  • OWF Brand: Wood Doctor / HeatMaster
  • OWF Model: 14,000. / G 200 and G 400
  • Southern Maine
    • View Profile
    • www.mainlycustom.com
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 03:44:12 AM »

OK guys so school me Please, I used to be able to Arc weld pretty well 20 years ago but my depth perception  stinks now and I find it difficult to do. About 15 years ago I bought a Hobart Ironman 210 mig and I love it, most of my freinds all say I do a great job welding, rather on an old body panel, rusty exhaust pipe or the bucket on my backhoe. Why do I have such a hard time repairing a rusty boiler with high heat? the only way that I can get a sealed bead is to start out with the heat at 2 and the feed at about 35, I make a pass or two on low and then make it look good at higher heat. I was told by a guy that welds Galvanized Gaurdrails for a living that they don't even grind the gaurdrail but instead use gas as well as flux core wire, it is ugly but I think it does help, what are your thoughts?
Logged
Wood boiler sales, service and installation for the Northeastern USA.

mlappin

  • Fabricator Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4140
  • OWF Brand: homebuilt, now HeatmasterSS
  • OWF Model: Martin Steel Works Gen 1 then, now a G200.
  • North Liberty, Indiana
    • View Profile
    • Altheatsolutions
Re: problems using 500 gal. propane tank
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 10:30:34 AM »

First try using a magnifier lens in your helmet, I think you can get em as strong as 2.5.

Could be the metal is just thinner than you think when you start fixing a rusty spot. Thing is with a flux gas combo is you gotta get the flux off between passes. I used something similar with the stainless wire I used, had some porosity issues with the flux core.

Logged
Stihl 023
Stihl 362
Stihl 460
Sachs Dolmar 112 and 120
Homemade skid steer mounted splitter, 30" throat, 5" cylinder
Wood-Eze model 8100 firewood processor

HeatmasterSS dealer for Northern Indiana
Pages: [1] 2