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Author Topic: ProFab has some issues!  (Read 40072 times)

Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #90 on: April 13, 2014, 07:12:52 PM »

This is a bad scenario for sure, even with your addition thats not much of a load on the boiler.  For example belknap here on the forum has a pro 400 heating 7200 sq ft in New hampshire
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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #91 on: April 13, 2014, 08:29:41 PM »

Could u send me a pm with your name, address, phone number, serial number.  Dealer name and number as well, I want to have all the info in one spot when I call
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Spyder5276

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #92 on: April 14, 2014, 05:02:04 AM »

You got mail.
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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #93 on: April 14, 2014, 07:38:48 AM »

Ive not recieved anything??
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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #94 on: April 14, 2014, 12:56:48 PM »

Been in contact with some folks this morning, still didn't get your Email tho

I'll let you know what I've found out later today
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Spyder5276

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2014, 04:43:26 PM »

Slimjim has the info.
The dealer sent me a email saying he is tryin to find another welder.
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TheBoiler

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2014, 05:14:18 PM »

Any thoughts on a long term solution?
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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #97 on: April 14, 2014, 05:59:36 PM »

Ok...  Lets start by saying ive spent a few hours on the phone today dealing with all parties I could find involved..

I have spoken with profab as well as tomeo farms the dealer.  I also spoke with an independent contractor that wws hired by the insurance ccompany of Spyder when he was pursuing an insurance claim from his insurance company. 

This is what I have gathered...   On February 26 a warranty claim came into Pro fab regarding the fan duct catching fire amd creating a blow torch effect that burned the insulation, also burned through the exterior siding of the unit.  On feb 28 all parts that were damaged due to the creosoted duct catching fire were sent to tomeo farms. 

The insurance company of Spyder contacted a large well known dealer in pa to come and take a look at the unit.  Mr Giles came to look at the unit and said in no way was this a warranty issue but rather a warranty claim.  It was stated that Spyder was burning Wood that was freshly cut and not seasoned at all.  He was operating the furnace by opening lower reaction chamber and allowing it to updraft

emails were exchanged with profab about the installer havin the water to hot domestically, profab insisted he shut down the boiler.  As it was supposed to be shut down the moment it had the claim filed to prevent further damage. 

Empyre and tomeo farms sent a welder to fix the issue, the welder apparently backed out when the words lawsuit and suing were thrown around.

As of now tomeo farms and empyre are trying to find another welder to correct the issue, they are of course are proceeding with caution because threats of law suits and other threats have been made, that seems to have been the concern all along

In regard to sizing of the boiler, tomeo farms didnt do the evaluation of sizing as the customer showed up saying I want a pro 400.  Upon delivery they encouraged the boiler neeeded at least 5-6k square ft to work properly.   this is where the garage addition was supposed to get it into that range

Empyre and tomeo farms are working to correct issue that was on the original warranty claim, the problem is that the problem grew worse because of the continued operation of the boiler in a way it was never intended.  That part neither will be responsible for

This is what ive gathered, dont shoot the messenger, empyre was seemingly prompt and thorough in the warrant claim.  The dealer says once Spyder picked up the parts it was a couple weeks before he heard anything, he assumed the customer fixed it himself rather than waiting as at this time it should have been a simple repair, a new fan and wiring was also sent as well

So we all saw spyders half, this is the other parts

Spyder did run out of seasoned Wood and did buy a load of green logs, even if the boiler is fixed,  it will never operate correctly or provide any quality of service.

We will follow this to see whats done, but all parties involved are not happy about how its played out

Hopefully, this can be resolved and evreryone can be happy


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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #98 on: April 14, 2014, 06:04:29 PM »

Any thoughts on a long term solution?

Not really.....   What sucks to me is we cant fix the problem because the focus is on the symptoms.

But im willing to assist in any way I can, a huge step that would likely help is not taking advantage of the huge unit.  Dont put in 24 hours worth simply because u can, and burn properly seasoned wood
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Spyder5276

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #99 on: April 14, 2014, 06:45:10 PM »

I my once again Scott. Once again you blame me.
First off I can show you a receipt of when these logs have been sitting here.
Second those were for 2014/15 season.
I was never informed to shut it Down until I was told by Ron g that it was installed wrong and those high temps need to be fixed. I informed TOMEO and Warren Conley I was not shutting it down. Due to heating my home. Would you not heat your home?
Sat when the welder called me. He already said "I told my wife I feel like I will be the middle man and don't want any part of it". I asked him to look anyhow. And said. " if I fix it and something else goes wrong. I will get blamed" NOT BY ME BUT MATT.
There was Not one said about ENCOURAGING 5/6k. I came home it was sitting there.
Did I walk in saying I would like a probab? YES I DID. Why my friend had one. BUT what am I to know about sizing!!!  I bet you ask Good talking Matt on how to do one he could not.
That should have been his job. How about you tell me you want to by a VW bug and I put you in a tractor trailor?
Matt is covering his ass because he is the one who got the last guy sued! Look that one up. Mr Scott
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TheBoiler

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #100 on: April 14, 2014, 07:17:05 PM »

The one thing that can be agreed is that there was no design guidance, so that closes out that route.

So the Boiler can be cleaned and repaired and made to function as it is designed.

To be honest if I was the Welder I would have walked as well. Just not worth it.

I presume part loading would help, but not solve the issue.

The simplest solution would be to trade out for a smaller one, one that would be the right size.
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slimjim

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #101 on: April 14, 2014, 08:54:53 PM »

Good post for theboiler
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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #102 on: April 14, 2014, 08:58:59 PM »

Im not blaming anyone, just saying what I was told.

Im sure u bought the logs, like u said, when u run out u have to do something.  My only advise is when u do run out u have to find a seasoned wood source, burning Wood that wet in any gasser will be a disaster

Spyder, this isnt a good situation for anyone involved.  I did want to hear all sides of the matter to see if u were getting the shaft.  you absolutely did have a warranty claim issue.  I agree it needs to be fixed, but the part I disagree with you on is the additional damage after the warranty claim was filed, if u have an issue with something that uses air to ignite fuel it has to be right or things get further damaged.  Perhaps you thought if the boiler got worse it would help you with an insurance claim or stove replacement im not sure.   

But I do feel we should be able to disagree on some aspects like we can agree on others
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Scott7m

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #103 on: April 14, 2014, 09:04:14 PM »

The one thing that can be agreed is that there was no design guidance, so that closes out that route.

So the Boiler can be cleaned and repaired and made to function as it is designed.

To be honest if I was the Welder I would have walked as well. Just not worth it.

I presume part loading would help, but not solve the issue.

The simplest solution would be to trade out for a smaller one, one that would be the right size.

Yes sir, thats what the welders will say.  They get scared off and say its not worth 125 bucks when there has been threats of lawsuits made.  Why risk it?

The smalller loads of seasoned Wood would be a huge step in right direction, but not a true fix. 

If he had thr pro 200, things would be much better, but even it will not withstand Wood thats not properly seasoned.  thats a point we dealers all struggle with.  We always have customers who want efficiency, but dont want to inherit the cost of the efficiency, for example one cost would be you dont have the luxury of burning what you want, if you run out you eirher quit burning or buy seasoned Wood. 
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TheBoiler

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Re: ProFab has some issues!
« Reply #104 on: April 14, 2014, 10:04:46 PM »

Shame it got to this.

I just looked on the Manufacturer web site and it is better than most on the specifications. Mind you 90% efficient?

http://profab.org/product.php?id=4

Makes you wonder how many 400's are sold, can not be that many for residential use.

Even the 200 could be pushing it.

All it would have taken would be for a glance at the Brochure by the Customer, the Dealer saying something instead of just taking the order, even the installer might have been wondering what was going on. If that thing can pump out 330,000btus it is going to be using 1 1/2 -2" Pex? Much bigger than the House, whatever.

No doubt a lot more wood was used than needed with the 400 smouldering all winter.

As an aside I have wood left that is too dry, even with snow sitting on it. For next year I will have to mix it.
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