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[AirForcePOL]

I have been following this thread, thank you for everyone who has porovided their input.  I know this is going to be a hard question to answer, but what is everyones prediction on the prices off gassers after December 31st?  Do you guys think the prices will go up, down or stay about the same? Obviously there will be more of a market for gassers after the new regs take effect because that will be the only option for an outdoor boiler. 

[slimjim]

I think that would be anybody's guess.

[coolidge]

Of curse everyone who is interested in buying is going to look at initial setup cost, and doesn't see beyond it. But if the technology is there and is being used for efficient burning practices the initial cost will need to be compared to oil prices at the time. $2 a gallon oil might not warrant the OWB, however $6 a gallon(and we all know its coming) would have a fairly short payback even at 25k wouldn't it. Nobody can tell where prices are going, they NEVER go down, and the Gov. is going to keep sticking it to us for as long as they can.

[mlappin]

Of curse everyone who is interested in buying is going to look at initial setup cost, and doesn't see beyond it. But if the technology is there and is being used for efficient burning practices the initial cost will need to be compared to oil prices at the time. $2 a gallon oil might not warrant the OWB, however $6 a gallon(and we all know its coming) would have a fairly short payback even at 25k wouldn't it. Nobody can tell where prices are going, they NEVER go down, and the Gov. is going to keep sticking it to us for as long as they can.

And that is the problem with the majority of people in this country, they never look at the long term. With proper maintenance a boiler should last at least twice as long as the payback period, three times if its a good boiler. So if it does last three times as long people should be figuring as in reality it's really only costing you a third as much each year of the payback period.

Guess I'm don't follow the masses though, I'm always looking ahead 5, 10 or more years down the road. When I get ready to plant a new alfalfa field the prep for it may have started 3-5 years ago, soil tests and what ever nutrients/lime are needed then soil test again the next year to make sure, plant it the third year maybe, if not then another rotation of corn then beans over two years and plant it the fifth year.

[mlappin]

I have been following this thread, thank you for everyone who has porovided their input.  I know this is going to be a hard question to answer, but what is everyones prediction on the prices off gassers after December 31st?  Do you guys think the prices will go up, down or stay about the same? Obviously there will be more of a market for gassers after the new regs take effect because that will be the only option for an outdoor boiler.

I would think they'd get cheaper, American companies will be primarily building gassers from then on unless they have coal models or exporting to Canada.

[AirForcePOL]

Exactly, coolidge!  Take last year for example, prior to me owning a OWB, I would have been so far in debt after paying $5 a gallon for propane that it would have taken me forever to pay it back.  The selling point on OWB's is that yes, it is a large start up cost.  However, if you take into consideration that a good owb will last 20 plus years if it is maintained and operated properly, you can prepay your heating bill up front and save huge amounts of money.  So on an average home, let's say it costs 11k for a conventional boiler installed.  Even if you only get 15 years out of your furnace, the monthly cost assuming you heat for 7 months out of the year will be around $100 per month.  You can then add in your savings for those 7 months for DHW (for me it's $50 a month) Now, a typical person who is considering a OWB is most likely already paying a substantial amount of money just to keep their family warm.  In most cases if a individual does the math it is a no brainer.  Unfortunately, the initial start up cost scares a lot of people away.  With a gasser, the cost will obviously be more but the plus side is the wood savings.   

[racnruss]

Getting back to the original subject matter of this thread, 

What I like to do is see what boiler a member has in his signature, then click on his/her user name and read all his previous posts.  Its real easy and paints a pretty good picture of their setup, problems, praises, and wood consumption.   If we all post them here this thread is going to be 20 pages.

That being said, I've had two gassers.  Soon to have a smoker .  The guy on the farm/ranch is not looking for a Hobby.  As was said before, he doesn't want to babysit a boiler.  He wants to clean out some timber or fence rows and get some heat in the process.  Lots of people live where their neighbors are very far away.  This sucks for them.

[slimjim]

Great post Rancuss, I agree entirely on the acreage thing, the trouble is that some folks near to their neighbors want to run the conventional's and the industry refuses to patrol itself or take any responsibility for the smokers positioning, this leads our federal overlords into creating regulations that protect us idiots from ourselves.

[coolidge]

The problem is that even a "smoker" can be run clean if (and I am one of them) there wood is drier than of the stump and probably use less wood. Not saying my wood is wet, but it's not what I would like for my gasser.

I know the State of Maine approves a certain amount of money for households that need it for heating, weather it be oil, propane, and even wood. And I do know people who get approved for three cord, funny thing is they don't get there wood until Oct or Nov to use that year.

[slimjim]

Great point Coolidge, remember government always knows best, get in line!

[oldchenowth]

I have a Wood Doctor HE 5000.  I like the design and at the time the price was right for a gasser to heat my size house.  I would say $10000 hooked up and running.  My leaky old farm house would have crushed me the last 4 years in propane alone.  My grandmother owns about 30 acres of woods 10 miles away so "free" wood aint the issue.  Last year and this year would have devastated the paycheck.  I bought a steel unit so IF repairs had to be done, I could weld it myself.  Honeywell actuators and stats are easily available.  I'm not sure mine is technically a gasser.  Down draft thru a series of chambers keeps the smoke to a minimum, but there isn't really a reburning of gases.  No nozzles to clean is a +.  It does like drier wood than I am sometimes able to get.  Lots of maple and walnut around here and if it isn't seasoned for at least two years, I get a lot more creosote build up than I like.  I don't always get my lazy self out there three years in advance.

I like my owb and would do it again in a heart beat when this one dies out.

[jrider]

I already posted on this topic once but after reading some comments I felt the need to chime in again.  I spent roughly $13,500 on my boiler, pex, concrete pad, and install because I will be the first to admit I am not nearly as handy as many of you in here.  I have oil heat which in this area has run between $3-$4 a gallon the last 4 winters.  I recovered ALL of my up front costs in those first 3 years. 
As far "baby sitting" the owb, I do no such thing.  Just the 20-30 mins of cleaning every 1-2 weeks on average....I did let it go 5 weeks this last time though and it took me a little over an hour and a much needed shower afterward but that's 100% my fault. 

[jd]

I have a sequoia paridise 3300. it is a phase 1 gassifier 6 years old. works best with drier wood .
my dealer was great, replaced the controler in a blizzard. company went out of business then the dealer went to
ohio.
heard a rattling noise, went out and the entire furnace was shaking, putting out a yellowish smoke.
slim helped me out, and i finaly figured there was a blockage in the brick tunnels under the firebox. 
wood is free all I have to do is cut and split.
just wish they had not gone out of business, lost my 20 yr warranty.
jd

[Hammersquash]

Empyre Pro 200

  This is my first season and shut down the boiler for the first time last week for 6 months.  I used just shy of two cords a month heating my 140 year old two story farm house that is well insulated including foam sprayed basement walls.  I also have a 40X80 shop that I heat when it isn't too cold with a 100k BTU dragons breath air handler.  The 200pro capabilities are pretty much at their max with my setup. 
   I am really happy with the unit and only had a few problems I was able to work out pretty quick.  The combustion fan in the back of the unit has sealed bearings that only lasted about 4 months.  The warranty process was incredibly easy and a new fan was delivered in five days.  I would highly suggest oiling the bearings with a drop of oil when cleaning the unit once a week.  I usually remove the fan when cleaning so ash does not intrude the motor housing.  I think this is where bearing failure begins.  My electronics warranty has run out so now I am on my own.  I have a total of three fans now (one new one on machine, one backup and one I am taking apart this summer to design a better bearing setup.)  Pretty much everything else I might need can be bought and shipped out online.
  Creosote build up seems to be the problem for alot of owners.  I do not have any to speak of but I think keeping the load times shorter is the key.  All gassers like seasoned wood but with a keen eye or a 30 dollar moisture meter you can mix up the wood.  I have only had a few bridge outs but eventually they cave in and it starts making good heat again.  I also put in a cap full of creosote killer powder a few times a week.
   I started my fire Sept 12 of last year.  It was a bit early but I wanted to be able to work out some bugs if need be.  The fire has never gone out.  Even when the fan quit and the unit idled for 12 hours reducing a full box of wood to a not even a smoulder all had to do was get the fan going again and the fire roared to life.
  I decided to build a fire today as we are dropping down to -9 tonight but well into the positives early this week.  It took about 2 hours to go from stone cold to 180'F.
  The manual and video shows the stove being loaded with optimum shaped wood.  6-8" in diameter for the 200pro and 3'long there abouts.  I do not have access to this type of wood and I burn just about everything that doesnt have nails in it.  (ok, maybe the odd pallet too).  I have not had a problem at all.
  The only thing I would change is the firebox size.  It is ridiculously small but I guess its part of the design.  If I had bought th 400 pro it would have too long of burn times and create creosote.
   The smoke door has a hinge that is in a sheety spot making the stove difficult to fill to the top but on the other hand the ash cleanout is stupid easy and very efficient.  I create about 1 bucket of ash a week and have never had to clean out the firebox as the ash is directed out the bottom holes in the brick.
  All and all if this bitch doesn't spring a leak in the next 4 years I am one happy guy.   I spend about 4000 in oil/propane a year and purchased this unit at a deep discount.  My total install including concrete pad and walkway was under 10k.

  Maintenance,

   Pretty easy all and all and takes less than 15 min.  I keep all the tools including a cheap drill in the back of the machine.  Cleaning out the tubes with the fly ash brush supplied and a power drill is a snap.  I also lightly scrub around the gaskets, oil the motor and blow out the fan with compressed air.  I wouldn't even call it maintenance to be honest.  I was doing it once a week, then once every two weeks and left it for three once.  I think the buildup after three weeks was a detriment to the efficiency so now I just do it every Sunday morning as a rule. 
 

[kommandokenny]

  Maintenance,

   Pretty easy all and all and takes less than 15 min.  I keep all the tools including a cheap drill in the back of the machine.  Cleaning out the tubes with the fly ash brush supplied and a power drill is a snap.  I also lightly scrub around the gaskets, oil the motor and blow out the fan with compressed air.  I wouldn't even call it maintenance to be honest.  I was doing it once a week, then once every two weeks and left it for three once.  I think the buildup after three weeks was a detriment to the efficiency so now I just do it every Sunday morning as a rule. 
 

Some guys L do anything to miss church