Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: mcarter on October 03, 2011, 09:22:29 AM
-
Any opinions on the which investment you would do first please.
My home was built in 2008. Basement (unfinished) 1250 sq ft, main level 1250 sq ft, second level 1250 sq ft.
The main level and second level have separate Carrier heat systems. I have a HeatMasterSS MF5000E interfaced with the main level Carrier system.
The main level is heated via hx/air along with hx/water for hot water. I set the thermostat on 71 degrees and the main level stays comfortable. However, the second level, which has an open staircase, does not seem to get any heat from the main level and stays about 64 to 65 degrees in moderate outside temperatures.
I just wonder if that is what most would typically expect.
The attic has typical insulation between the framework of the second level ceiling, there is no blown-in insulation.
Would it be a better investment to get insulation blown-in to the attic, or would it just be more beneficial to add another hx/air to the attic heating system?
Thanks in advance!
Michael
-
I would cut a hole in the ceiling of your mail level/floor of the top level and install a grate/vent.
I have a friend that did this and he heated his upstairs completely from the downstairs unit.
-
With the open staircase to the second level, I sort of already have that type of setup. But perhaps, based on the fact that your friend heated his second level in this fashion may lend support to the idea that I need more insulation in the attic.
Any more thoughts would be appreciated!
Michael
-
i would suggest that IF you think you don't have enough insulation then you likely don't. anyway if your attic is not 12 or 14 inches thick and you live in a cold winter climate you would be spending money wisely in my opinion (that isn't worth much) and also the grate idea is solid..it would give a place for teh cold air another route to fall and let more heat up the stairwell yousay you allready have. the grate is a cheap to try
-
I would do the insulation before I done anything else. With the open stair case and the fact the 2nd story is over the 1st (heat rises), you should not have that much temp differance in down to up. There will be some but not that much. Most of the time the 2nd story will be a little warmer than the 1st unless you are losing heat and most all heat lost goes up. The best way to tell if you have got enuff insulation in your attic is frost, if your roof will hold frost for a long time into the day you are not losing much heat but if its gone quik or you see spots thats where your heat is leaving. But you have to have a good frost and you cant make a judgement where the sun is hitting the roof.
Or you can also pay through the nose to have somone come to your house with one of those heat seeking radar gun things and walk all over your house to tell you the same thing the frost will tell you.
-
not sure where your located,but here in mass if you put a vent in a floor and there was a fire ,insurance co .could refuse coverage cause you create a fire draft thru the floor.something to check into if you go with that option.
-
Thank you all for the insight. I will call around to get some estimates for insulation. I will let you all know if that helps!
Michael
-
More insulation is always a good investment.
-
Good to see you on here, you will find that it is a great place to collect information. Lots of different perspectives.
One thing you might try is using the heat pump to heat the 2nd story up to the desired temperature and then see how long it takes for it to cool off. If it cools off quickly its a sign of needing more insulation. If it takes a while to cool off it would seem like it may be more of a problem that the air from downstairs just isn't finding its way upstairs. Hooking up a upstairs unit isn't that hard if you can get water lines from the basement to the attic, but if there is no where to run them it can be rather hard.
-
Thanks yoderheating, I've been enjoying my OWB! Been on this site reading all the stuff, even the old posts from way back. I cant seem to satiate my craving for info on these OWBs! It has become a strange obsession. I found some intriguing posts on clothes dryers.
I set the second level thermostat down from 69 to 66. The temp drops quickly to 66, less than an hour. It must be the attic insulation. My neighbor works for Kent's Insulating and he had insulation blown into his attic that met Minnesota standards, I think 3 feet deep! Im going to have this done to my home. If that doesn't help considerably, I'll call you up for an estimate on an attic hx/air deal.
Thanks,
Michael
-
Estimate for blown-in attic insulation:
$650 to add R19 factor to existing R19 batt for total R38
$1095 to make a total R60 factor
These are 'installed' estimates.
Any thoughts for the southwest VA area?
Michael
-
I am not sure how it works in your area, but here in Michigan most places you buy blown in insulation will let you use a blower for free for a day. I have yet to do my house now, but my last one cost me about $225 for 14" on a 1000sft house and about 3 hours of time with the help of a friend loading the hopper. Might be worth checking into DIY. Our Menards ads always have spreadsheet info on how many sft per bag per X" deep = R factor to help figure before you get there to purchase.
-
I just re insulated mine (30 bags) and used the blower for free for about $200
-
I did mine last fall and got the machine to blow it in for free. (Home Depot). 23 bags of the pink stuff and a couple of rolls of backed insulation for the stairwell (Attic side was only covered and then blown in over it) For under $500, then Uncle Sam gave me a energy savings tax credit.
-
Do you have cold air return vents anywhere upstairs?
I doubt additional insulation would solve your problem as it appears your house was designed to have heat source at both levels. You may have enough capacity from the first floor unit to heat the upstairs but you need a mechanism to get the heat upstairs which by default means you need a way for the cold air from upstairs to get back downstairs.
BTW if you are underinsulated you should add more. Blown in insulation is not very difficult to install.
-
Teburman,
I do think the attic is underinsulated. There is a cold air return but that connects to the attic heat pump system which is not associated with the main level unit which contains the hx/air from the OWB. I'm beginning to think it may be easier to add a hx/air to the attic unit to avoid potental insurance issues from installing a grate/vent (assuming this would allow a cold air return to the main level?)
Michael
-
I think if I was in your position I would add hx/air to the attic unit this will most likely solve your problem.
As far as cold air return goes: if the cold air can’t return to the heat source then it is in effective. The heat needs to circulate through the heated space. The medium carrying the heat needs to go in "hot" and come out "cold".
If you think the attic is under insulated then by all means add what you need. Most of the insulation manufacturer web sites give instructions on how to determine your current R value as well as the recommeded R Value for your location. You will then be able to calculate how much material you will need if your insulation is deficient. I just added 12 inches of blown in cellulose to the attic in the apartment building. The actual insulation process wasn’t that big of a deal to do, one guy on the nozzle one guy feeding the machine and one guy dragging hose. It helps to have walkie talkies for each of the crew. I installed 65 bags of the stuff. The use of the machine was free. It took about four hours. But you need to take care not to block off any of the roof ventilation. You may have to install rafter vent baffles http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=diy.diy_rafter_vents (http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=diy.diy_rafter_vents) . I had to install some and that part wasn’t fun I worked on it for a couple hours a day after work for a week! It was hard to get to and had to work while straddling the rafters so I didn’t break through the ceiling. Glad to be done with this project!!
Good luck.