Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: blwnsmoke on November 02, 2011, 02:39:01 PM
-
New here, wanted to both post to get info from other members as well as educate those who may have the Maxim Pellet/Corn furnaces. I have a M250 that I bought a little over a year ago and used it during the 2010/2011 winter without issue. I started the furnace back up on 10/2 of this year to heat my house and hot water. This weekend we had a major snow storm and lost power at approximately 9pm 10/30. It wasn't until around 9am on 10/31 that I hooked it up to my generator and got it fired back up. It was at that time that I checked the pellet hopper only to find that the pellets had some smoke coming from them. I felt the batch (approx 550lbs inside the hopper) and they were warm to the touch. At that time, I decided to pull the side panel off and look through the window of the auger to see what's going on. It was then I noticed the glass was completely burnt black and couldn't see through. I then removed 3 of the screws (1 was missing from factory apparently) so I could look in the auger compartment and I saw pellets were as black as could be and were on fire. I then shut the unit off, pulled the fan plug and powered it back up so I could run the auger without the fan kicking in so I could get the burnt pellets out of the hopper and dumped into the burn chamber.
I was able to get all the pellets out or so I thought. I ran it for 5-6 minutes and at that point it was only dumping normal colored pellets. Throughout the day, I had checked several times and still continued to feel heat coming from the hopper. I figured it was still heat just trapped since there was so many pellets in there. I then decided to start digging and found more black pellets working it's way up the side of the hopper. I then started bailing pellets out with my ash scoop and throwing them on the snow until I couldn't find anymore. Let it continue to run and checked back again a few hours later.
Note during this whole process the fire box always looked normal and the temperature of the water was around 182-185*.
It was around 9pm that I checked again (3rd or 4th time) and found MORE burnt pellets digging with the scoop. This time I grabbed a 5 gallon bucket and filled it halfway with water and dumped the water in the hopper to put the pellets out once and for all. Also touched the control panel and it was way to hot to even keep your hand on it so clearly this was a fire going on inside the chamber. After dumping almost 3 gallons of water in the hopper, seemed to put the fire out and stopped the pellets from burning (smoke disappeared). I then checked back around 11pm and all seemed ok.
4am - My 1 year old wakes up screaming (her room is next to the furnace) which wakes us up. As soon as we woke up, we immediately smelled smoke, the entire house smelled of smoke on all floors and rooms. I ran outside in the dark and the pellet chamber was smoking like I've never seen before, it was smoking like a coal train. I opened up the cover and the burnt pellets had risen to the top, the control panel was completely melted (no power, buttons melted), the seals on the furnace were melted and dripping down the side and the coating had melted in the hopper.
I then filled up another 3 gallons of water and dumped it in the hopper and then started emptying the remaining 500lbs of pellets bucket by bucket as clearly this fire was not going out no matter what I did.
-
I contacted my dealer around 9am and he said that it sounds like a Back Burn. He explained that because the stove works on a draft system, when we lost power the burn basically reversed itself and started burning the pellets in the hopper. He stated that basically it is operator error and not a manufacturer's issue and that this can happen anytime we lose power.
I 100% disagree.
If this can happen any time one can lose power, that means that we can never leave the house, can never go to work, can't go to the store, can't go away for a weekend. One must always be home to insure we don't lose power???
I pulled the instruction book out and nowhere in there does it state that you can't leave with it running. There is no "warning" or "caution" advising us as consumers that this can happen if we lose power. There is nothing in the paperwork, manual or brochure that states what to do if we do lose power (ie: dump water inside the furnace, keep an eye out on the hopper etc). Infact, the manual says that if a back burn happens, the control panel will show "b b" and will turn the stove off exccept for the auger and will feed the auger for 2 minutes at a time at 10 minute increments until the temperature drops. I'm assuming it's job is to feed the burnt pellets out of the hopper to prevent a fire.
Not once during the 14 hours that I kep checkin on this stove, dumping water, bailing pellets out did this "b b" show up. When asked why, I got a "I don't know".
I contacted CB around 10am Monday morning and left a message stating that my furnace caught on fire and I would like a call back promptly. It has now been 2 days. My dealer sent them an email yesterday stating I haven't received a call back yet and still NOTHING from Central Boiler.
I can't believe that if something like this can happen by losing power, that CB puts in their specs that the furnace can be within 2 ft of your house. If I wasn't woken up by my daughter screaming, I have no doubt anothe hour or 2 would have ingulfed the furnace and caught our house on fire.
Please be warned that apparently power outages can cause this. I'm not sure yet what is going to happen, whether CB will cover this or if I will need to take legal action. I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else out there.
-
That was scary! Glad no one was harmed. Since the damage was originally caused by the power failure I wonder if your homeowners insurance will cover repairs/replacement of the unit?
-
Fire/smoke from pellets
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-10-31_04-06-48_472.jpg)
Fire crawling up side by electrical panel
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-10-31_09-04-50_355.jpg)
Seals melting and dripping
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-10-31_04-09-17_91.jpg)
Control panel burnt as well as corner of hopper.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-10-31_12-08-50_462.jpg)
Control panel melted, orange/red spots burnt into unit from heat.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-10-31_11-48-49_540.jpg)
-
That was scary! Glad no one was harmed. Since the damage was originally caused by the power failure I wonder it your homeowners will cover repairs/replacement of the unit?
If CB won't cover replacement under their 5 yr warranty, I will be consulting with an attorney. The fact that the unit failed to go into Back Burn mode tells me it is either flawed or defective. There is no doubt in my mind that if the pellets were smoking, burning and flaming at the bottom, it should have gone into this mode which it never did.
1) CB should have a warning, caution or disclaimer stating this can happen if you lose power.
2) CB should state in the manual what to do IF you lose power (steps/precautionary measures).
What's funny is the only part in the manual under "if you lose power" states that the stove will power up and return to the state it was prior to losing power. Why are they not listing this in the manual?? I for one would have never bought this unit if I knew this was a possiblity.
The wood units have an actuator that will close IF they lose power which will put the fire out, the pellet units do not.
How is a consumer to know this can happen if it is not documented in any form to the consumer? I could have gone away for the weekend, lost power and come home to a home in rubble. I could have lost our house, I could have lost our lives!!
-
Bottom of hopper - Can see the coating on the right side of pic that melted.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-11-02_17-11-41_739.jpg)
Metal rippling from the heat - no alarm??
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-11-02_17-11-59_63.jpg)
500lbs of pellets dumped out
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/2011-11-02_17-12-34_768.jpg)
-
CB has been doing quite a few things lately that are out of character for them. I'm wondering if their claims against them for their early 2300 gassers being defective are starting to hurt them monetarily. It will be a shame if they don't make you whole for whats happened to you. So many people out there own their OWB's, including many of my friends and even a few relatives. I believe they build one of the best products on the market.
It appears as though you have a very good friend upstairs. You are so fortunate that the fire didn't make it's way to your home. I can still remember when my daughter was 4(26 years ago). What a set of lungs she had when she had a bad dream at night. I'm happy for you that you are all OK.
Marty
-
WOW! Man that sure is scary.I am glad your family is safe and you got it put out before your house caught on fire. :thumbup:
I had heard of these pellet and corn stoves burning back through the auger before.Thats one of the reasons I didnt go that way.No real good way to control things like in your situation with a power failure.
I hope that CB makes it right.
-
Marty & Jackel, thank you for your kind words. One of the first things my wife said to me was "it's as if our daughter had a guardian angel looking over her". I don't really want to "lawyer up".. that's not who I am however I don't feel that this unit is safe (even repaired). I think every single person who owns one of these should get a notice from CB stating this can happen and the steps to take to prevent it.
I would have a totally different attitude if this was stated in the manual. I was out plowing for 13 hours in that storm, I would have went home immediately after my wife said that we lost power and hooked it up to the generator. The unit holds heat for 24 plus hours so I figured who care about 10 hours down, i'll hook it up when I'm done. If this was made public and published in their materials, this would have never happened.
I've seen a picture of one of these unit completely burned down on the net. I searched and searched and can't find it anymore.
To add insult to injury, I just had to spend $700 in propane now because I can't use my pellets just to buy time till I know what's going to happen. Money I feel I should be reimbursed by CB. And I have 9 tons of pellets in my yard I can't use. I hope they step up, I don't see any way they would win in court.
-
thats one of the saddest story i have read on hear,im sorry for your loss. thank god it was just the furnace and not any thing else.your so right that should of never happened,cb will probably someday have a recall or more warning labels on their product.in the meantime i would treat that like a crime scene. if you get thru to someone important let him know how you suffered smoke and minor burn injurys, and your famlily may be going to theropy to deal with all the emotional stress it has caused you. let them know your story has attracted a couple of attorneys willing to represent you.a new furnace and all expences is a small price for them to pay considering . if they decide to fight, it will take some time but dont give up on that.
-
This is really scary. I am surprised at thier lack of response though. I had to call them about a thermostatic valve and left a message, thinking I would not hear back for a coupel days; but they called me right back in under 15 min. I would keep calling, couple times a day. They definatly owe you big time. I do not think the propane reimbursment is out of line. Especially since they are dragging thier feet. They should have been right on top of this.
Perhaps if they do not respond soon we could all call in and complain? I would sure hope if anything happened to mine they would be prompt. Not sure if this would help at all.
-
Figured I'd post an update. I finally spoke to the manufacturer today. I spent about 20 minutes on the phone explaining the whole chain of events. To sum it up, my dealer has a delivery truck coming next week so I'm dropping my stove off to him to put on the truck and the truck is going back to the factory. They are going to investigate what happened, tear it down and rebuild it back to original condition. Anything that is not 100% will be replaced. They did say "pending we don't find anything that is operator error ie: too much soot, not cleaning it out etc) which isn't the case and I'm not worrying about it.
I did question them on why none of this is in the manual and they really didn't answer me on it. He did say that there is a backup to he Back Burn system. Apparently there is a thermostatic valve that if for some reason the back burn doesn't work, it actually takes the storage water and dumps water into the auger area even if there is no power. After describing it to me, I found out that it is the plastic tube that is connected to the glass window that you look through to see the auger. This tube however was clogged with a burnt pellet that took a couple minutes of picking at to finally get it out. There were also 2 other pellets sitting in the tube that weren't burnt. I have a feeling that is why it got as bad as it did, because it couldn't send water in. However, I did take the tube off after this happened to get the pellets out and there was no water in the tube sitting so I don't know.
My dealer is letting me use his demo unit until mine comes back so I can continue to use my pellets instead of propane.
The cost to me, approximately $260 for delivery fee from the factory back to my dealer. It's not worth argueing over $260 so I'm going to eat that and just be happy that they are going to go through it and repair anything that is wrong.
At this point I'm satisfied with there response. It will take 6-8 week to get the stove back so I will report back then with an update on the final resolution.
-
Man, that is awesome. It's great to know that there are still OWB company's that honor their warranty's. I'll bet that's a huge relief for you. Keep us posted.
Marty
-
dont count it "taken care of" yet..the old "operator error" is still an ace in the hole for them. now if they choose to use it (i hope they don't" they have your 260 bucks plus they have your stove. i do hope they treat you fair, good luck
-
Gotta agree with willie, let's not get to excited here! Let's see what they determine as there cause. They may be tearing it apart to build there side of the case if need be.
Best of luck buddy!
-
Although I agree to an extent to not hold my breath, I really can't see how they can blame any of this as operator error. Not to repeat myself but here are the facts again
1) Manual states nothing on what happens if unit loses power.
2) Manual does not give any steps, precautions or warnings.
3) Back Burn mode did not kick in during the 14-18 hours it ran.
4) Thermostatic valve did not activate which is supposed to even during a power loss.
5) Thermostatic valve tube was clogged with pellets (impossible for operator error to do this as it is sealed to the auger chamber).
Just based on those 5 things alone, not one of them is put on a consumer and I think the courts would agree. I took a bunch more pictures prior to dropping it off at my dealer inacse I have to fight them with it in their possession.
The only thing that I can say the manufacturer could put on me is if the soot level was really bad inside the burn chamber which is wasn't. I had cleaned the unit out prior to the weekend because of the snow storm coming and expecting power outages. It was cleaned, scraped and filled full of pellets the day before. Everything else is internal mechanics and has nothing to do with the consumer.
The fact that I had poured water inside 3 different occassions, it rippled metal and burned the powdercoating off the hopper tells you right there how long it had been burning above the auger and how hot it was down at the bottom. Again, no back burn mode or thermo valve activated.
-
I guess in this life we have many choices. I choose to be an optimist......most of the time anyway. I still believe CB is one of the best manufacturers out there, and it sounds as if you've got all of your ducks lined up, so there really shouldn't be a problem. I know when my friend's 5648 rotted through, he was up and running in less than a week- and his boiler was on it's 8'th year, so the "bumper to bumper" part of his warranty had expired. They really went the extra mile for him, and they should do the same for you. You've got enough on your plate right now, and you'll hear no pessimism from me. Great to hear things are going well.
Marty
-
Hey Marty, any word on why your buddy's boiler rotted out in just 8 years???
-
He went the last two or three years without cleaning out the burn chamber when he was done burning for the year, and in that same time frame, he failed to cover the stack in the off season. I was really shocked when he informed me that he could get a new one for only 3 grand. In my opinion, it was definitely operator error that caused it's early failure. That's why I'm a CB fan. I question how efficient their ripple top boilers are, but I think you can give up some efficiency knowing you have probably the best warranty out there.
-
Thats good Marty, that's why I wanted to get with heatmaster is stories like that. I personally saw the company go out of the way to help when they didn't have to and that impressed me. Then how they give your your water test tubes complete with shipping labels you really don't have an excuse not to test and they go out of there way by sending reminders in the mail each year reminding customers to test there water.
-
Any updates?
-
Spoke to my dealer today, the stove has been rebuilt and has been ready just waiting on a truck to come up here. It is being put on a truck Monday and the only charge I am responsible for is the shipping charge (roughly $250).
I will thoroughly inspect it before accepting it from my dealer to insure it is back to "new" condition as far as parts replaced from melting, staining and peeling. I did ask my dealer if they found the cause and he said he didn't know. I told him that if I have to call direct, I will but I want to know the cause before I pick it up. If they are saying "we fixed it but have no idea what happened" then this basically tells me they didn't "fix" the issue and it can happen again. He understood and said he'd try to find out. He also said that he wasn't sure how I was cleaning it because I didn't have a brush for the heat exchangers essentially saying that it is possible that I wasn't cleaning it well enough which I think is BS as I cleaned it out weekly and dumped the ash as well as scrapped the exchangers out with a metal scraper I was given with the stove.
Anyways, I feel that my dealer unintentionally of course caused part of this burn down. If you look at this first picture, you will see the small glass window. Below that window is a metal 90* elbow that connects to a clear tube via a clamp. This runs down to the bottom and connects to thermovalve that gravity feeds water into the burn chamber in the even it sense a fire via too high temps in the chamber. On the other side of this window is the opening which was clogged by a burnt pellet as well as 2 regular pellets sitting halfway down the clear tube. If the thermovalve activated, it would not have been able to dump water in because of the clog. This is the part that is required by CB for the dealer to install.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/myunit.jpg)
The next picture is of my dealer's demo unit that he loaned me to use while mine was at the manufacturer. IF you look at the window, you will see there is no 90* elbow. It is just the tube that connects to the plate.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/loaner2.jpg)
This last picture is of the plate removed. You will see that the 90* elbow is on the INSIDE of the chamber, not outside. It also has the 90* elbow pointing directly down into the burn champer. This clearly allows water to dump down into the chamber correctly and does not allow the tube or hole on the plate to get clogged. The part that was clogged is the small hole that the tube is connected to in this picture. Just picture the plate reversed or 180* turned around.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/loaner1.jpg)
So although I still believe there was a failure somewhere that caused it to melt down, I believe it was dealer error in installing the plate backwards allowsing it to clog. I will be discussing with my dealer when I stop by to look at my boiler. If the whole route of the problem was this, then I will be looking at my dealer to cover the delivery fee.
I'm still not going to drop this even though CB repaired my stove. I still want answers on what happened, what failed, why I didn't get a Back Burn alarm on the control panel.. why didn't the disk inside activate the Back Burn alarm.
I did notice that the clear tube was bone dry. If the thermovalve activated, I would think there would have been water in the clear tube to the point of the burnt pellet but there wasn't. Not quite sure what to think.. I could blame the dealer on a bad install but that bad install wouldn't have caused the burn down if the thermovalve still didn't activate.
I found something quite interesting.. Not 1 1/2 weeks after contacting CB on this issue did I get a packet in the mail with a letter addressed to all M250 owners. In it, it talked about some safety tips as well as how to clean the stove out properly and some caution stickers along with pictures on where to place these stickers. Seems quite the coincidence that after notifying them of a burn down, all M250 owners got this packet sent to them.
I still feel there is a failure on CB's side of warning all of us about the steps to take icase of a Buack Burn or power failure. Again, there is zero talk about either of these in any manual or brochure as well as zero warning stickers or notes.
-
So If I understand correctly, the dealer is responsible for installing that plate/window? Or could if of come form the factory that way?
-
I think at this point you are looking for answers your never going to get, I don't think anyone no matter whether it be the dealer or company will be able to tell you "why".
As far as the company, they probably just replaced all the damaged parts and just chalked it up as user error and went on with it
I'd just be Leary of any answers at this point, cause from what I'm seeing/gathering it's all speculation.
If your dealer loaned you a unit to use while yours was repaired that's rather impressive.
-
So If I understand correctly, the dealer is responsible for installing that plate/window? Or could if of come form the factory that way?
I will ask him when I see him. From what CB said, the dealer is responsible for installing the thermovalve.. That is all that I know. I don't know whether it is just the valve or if it is the valve, tube and window, or just the valve and tube. When I see my dealer in person, I'll discuss with him while we are looking at it. I think it is best that way to compare the two. After talking with CB I had asked my dealer if he installed the valve and he said yes (this was prior to me seeing his reversed).
-
I think at this point you are looking for answers your never going to get, I don't think anyone no matter whether it be the dealer or company will be able to tell you "why".
As far as the company, they probably just replaced all the damaged parts and just chalked it up as user error and went on with it
I'd just be Leary of any answers at this point, cause from what I'm seeing/gathering it's all speculation.
If your dealer loaned you a unit to use while yours was repaired that's rather impressive.
I have a feeling that will be the outcome. My first question that I want answered is who installed the window incorrectly. I'm not out for blood although as I said, I'm concerned about it happening again. For the past two months, I've been dumping 2-3 bags of pellets in my hopper daily as opposed to putting 12 bags in and going 4-5 days because of that very reason, I don't want it to catch fire with 500 lbs of pellets inside. At least this way, 50-100 lbs is nothing to be concerned about but it is really unfortunate that I am this nervous about it not knowing.
And yes, my dealer gave me his personal M250 demo unit to use. Granted I had to pick it up and install it but that was because he was afraid of sinking in my grass because the ground wasn't frozen. I ended up using a bobcat to load/unload and hook it up on my slab myself.
My dealer has been fantastic, he feels really bad that this happened and has appologized several times. I can't say anything bad about him. I think he felt really bad that I had 10 tons of pellets sitting in my backyard and I wouldn't be able to burn them so he offered it up. Many thanks to him for that!!
-
Any news on this topic??
-
I wish you the best with your boiler when you get it back, I sure have liked my CL5036 just wish I could get my door issue straight. My dealer act's like the door if replaced will cost him. He told me 400+ dollars to replace. I just want this fixed. You might want to install some form of smoke detector / heat detector I have a manual wind up heat detector that was left at my house when I bought it that will trigger at 150 degree's you might be able to find one on Ebay. :)
-
So my dealer emailed me Tuesday saying it just arrived at his shop (an hour away from me). I asked him he would mind bringing it to me in which he had no problem doing that. My hope was to have it do it because I had to travel an hour each way to go pick up a bobcat to move it (brother in laws) from slab to bed of truck and back so I was hoping to minimize any more travel.
Dealer brought it by at noon time today.. I am absolutely amazed and impressed with CB right now. Lets start with the outside.. I can't tell if all the panels were replaced or if they stripped it and repowdercoated it but all 4 sides including the top looks brand new. They put a new door on, new gaskets (remember this was only a year old boiler). Obviously they put a new firestar control board in. Now here is where the amazement starts.. They replaced all electronics and mechanics inside the electrical area. We are talking wires, fan, pellet auger, fire chamber auger.. EVERYTHING!! The pellet chamber was completely redone, all new coatings inside of it. You would never be able to tell that this ever caught fire.
Now my dealer is just amazing.. Besides giving me his demo to use, he drove it to my house for free, gave me a free gallon of the rust inhibitor and test kit. He did not charge me for the 2 hours he was here with me helping install it. When I told him I left him a bag and a half of pellets in his demo, he said, "you shouldn't have done that.. I'm not worried about it". The fact that I used his pellets that were in his unit (leftover) and didn't want me to replace them.. It's just the little things that really mean a lot and a loyal customer.
Here are pictures of the boiler back on my slab.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/NEW4.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/NEW3.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/NEW2.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/NEW1.jpg)
Now here is the interesting part.. CB completely changed the design of the thermovalve... When did they change this design you may ask.. well, my dealer started getting the new design in December which is a month after they got my burned down boiler at the factory.. Coincidence or more of an Oh Sh%t decision??
If you look where my finger is pointing to, they now have it drilled/tapped and injected directly in instead of a 90* elbow below the glass window.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc504/blwnsmoke/Central%20Boiler/NEW5.jpg)
End result, still no answer from CB yet on what went wrong but the fact that they replaced everything makes me feel more comfortable about using it.. afterall, if nothing was left, whatever failed is no longer there.. maybe that is why they did replace everything.
Im going to send him a giftcard out to a nice restaurant for him and his wife for all he has done for me.. I think it is the least I can do for him.
-
Absolutely awesome. Are you sure it's not a NEW furnace? That thing looks great!!!!
Makes me proud to be a CB owner. Thanks for sharing!!
-
I'd swear it was brand new as well but the serial number plate on the back is the same with a manufacturer date of 2008 so I know it is mine.
-
Wow that is impressive..Glad that the dealer and CB took care of you guys :thumbup:
-
Appears Central Boiler has come out with a battery backup you can add to the Maxim M250 which helps with preventing the back burn in case you lose power. I have a 45kwh standby Generac generator that automatically comes on in case of power failure but the battery backup might be handy if the generator were to somehow fail.
-
I am sure you have done this but I would take pictures of everything on it so they can't say it was operator error. That way you have proof if that's what they come up with.
-
That is impressive! Great Pictures too. Looks like a total recondition to new standard! That is a reason to buy from a big established company. Small start ups companies couldn't afford to many hits on their warranties like that or they could financially fold like many have. Glad I own a furnace from Central Boiler.
-
Okay so this is my fist post on this forum and it's in an odd spot. I've been a lurker for quite some time and am finally in the planning stages of installing an OWB. I stumbled upon this thread by the fact that I currently heat with an indoor pellet stove and I was, prior to reading this, considering a Central boiler brand OWB, so I stumbled in here researching. What gets me is the praise that CB is getting in this thread even the the OP had to go out of his way to get this resolved! He spent his gas, dumped 500lbs of pellets out into the snow, had to spend an unexpected $700 on propane for heat , 'NOT TO MENTION THEY COULD ALL BE DEAD!'...all due to a number of malfunctions and bad engineering, or possibly incorrectly installed parts from the factory, or the dealer (whom represents CB)!!!
In the least, they should have had a 'BRAND NEW' stove delivered and installed, and they should have covered the cost of your soggy snow-soaked pellets, and the $700 you spent on propane.
I myself would not feel comfortable having the same furnace that caught on fire sitting in my yard again.
The fact that CB took this so seemingly lightly definitely has me looking in other directions for my first OWB.
Oh wait, and then they charge $260!!!! to send it back!!!!???? WT%??
That's not support! That's pitiful.
And yes, I realize this thread is over a year old, I didn't dig it up... ;)
-
As someone who deals in this industry daily, if you expect any company to do all of that, your looking in the wrong industry.
He did get his stove repaired, although it did cost him. There are countless companies out there that wouldn't have ever returned his calls or if they did woulda told him tough luck, you did something wrong.
I have personally never had a stove failure under my belt, I did however see another dealer have a leaker several years back due to a faulty weld, the dealer called the company on site, they told the dealer to give him a new stove and they'd take care of the costs, they did all that. Customer was thrilled, I think his boiler was around a year old. However, if it were an absolute huge company, the levels of bureaucracy that one would have to go through to even be able to talk to someone who could help is crazy. Its called being a little to big for there own good, it's a hassle. I see the good and bad of each end of the scenario all the time
-
Yeah, I've come to notice that there seems to be a pattern with a certain few manufacturers, the funny thing is they seem to be somewhat hit and miss. Is their customer service really that unstable and unpredictable, or do they have an army of drones that post praise on threads in order to even out the cost of the negative posters?... ;)
In your opinion and experience, who has the best customer service?
-
Yeah, I've come to notice that there seems to be a pattern with a certain few manufacturers, the funny thing is they seem to be somewhat hit and miss. Is their customer service really that unstable and unpredictable, or do they have an army of drones that post praise on threads in order to even out the cost of the negative posters?... ;)
In your opinion and experience, who has the best customer service?
In my personal experience, heatmaster. That's not to say others arent as good but they were the ones who initially impressed me with customer service.
One thing a consumer often overlooks is the dealer, if you buy a cb stove or whatever brand from a dealer who sells 4 stoves a year, then you have an issue, you call up your dealer who isn't very experienced and he's like well hmm what well maybe I need to call the company.
Here is how the rest usually unfolds
Dealer calls, company isn't giving him the yea yes go ahead talk while there pulling up a file to see who he is.... Then they see he bought 4 stoves last year and there like, hold on a minute I've got a call on another line. 3 min later, hoping you've gave up he finally hears you out and feeds some line of bull that it's all operator error. The company might know good and well they have an issue but issues cost money, and this guy only buys a few stoves per year.. The chances of the company bending over backwards to help is not likely at this point, the bigger boiler companies do not look at consumers as there targets, but more as to there dealer base. So I do feel it's important that your dealer have a bit of leverage, i have seen companies act totally different on issues such as that based simply on who was the dealer complaining..
I've not had empyre do me wrong as far as anything, but they are huge, trying to get through the bs to get something done is a bit pathetic. I can be on my way down the road and have a customer need something, call, and it's like well you need to fill out this work order and blah blah blah and have it into us before we can ship it out, only delaying everything for everyone. This is that way with the bigger companies, it's kinda like a government, the bigger they are, the harder they "can" be to deal with.
However, be your own judge, look at products and study companies, find a company that appears to have took pride in the product.
CB like it or not, was probably well within the guidelines of the warranty in regards to this issue the topic is about.
-
Kind of funny I was doing some searching online trying to find some answers and stumbled upon this. Figured I'd give an update.
Since the rebuild, unit has been functioning properly up till the past month. I've had a few back burn warnings during last summer (I ran it all summer long to heat my hot water). But the unit performed as it should clearing out the auger, then reigniting itself when the temps corrected. Do I have 100% confidence, no but it is functioning as it should.
My dealer did email me last Spring letting me know about the battery backup. He ordered one in for me and I installed it. A little tricky on the wiring.. I paid more attention to the wiring diagram/layout then the instructions to insure I had it wired properly.
All it does is if you lose power, the stove shuts down but the battery backup monitors the temps inside.. if it senses a back burn, it will clear the auger. It does not run the whole stove to keep it operating.
I contacted Stu at CB regarding this and he said that they have tested it out to last about a week with no power on the battery backup. At this point, I think I'm going to go 50/50 mix for this coming winter. That way if I'm gone and we lose power, the Back Burn is all set and the water won't freeze.
My current issue is that it isn't igniting properly now. If I run out of pellets, it doesn't try to reignite. I can hold the ignite button down and it will fire for 3-5 seconds then stop firing. I have to continuously repeat the process to get it to fire long enough for the pellets to ignite.
I've done a full cleaning inside which caused me to have to buy a new auger (twisted the head of the bolt off inside the auger when tightening) ) and replaced the temp sensor inside the unit as the tip had become brittle and flaked off exposing the element inside the probe.
Will be reinstalling everything today.
Dealer informed me that it is 1 year parts, 5 year on welds. Shame on me for not reading the manual but I took the advertised "5 year warranty" as 5 years bumper to bumper if you will.
I'll be going directly to CB for troubleshooting as my dealer isn't much help with this particular issue but has been good with everything else in the past.