Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: lugnut on November 10, 2011, 09:09:53 PM
-
Subject title reads like a really bad sci-fi movie. Anyway, it will be two weeks since firing up my Shaver 250 for the first time and I've been getting this black slime oozing from both the wood box and ash door. Any idea what it might be? I thought at first maybe the silicone they used on the inside door for the gasket, but I would think that by now that should be set in as to where the door fits onto the gasket...could it be creosote? Also it seems "wet" on the ledge of the wood box. I suppose I should take pictures. ???
The "slime" just falls directly off when I run my glove under it...I am totally mystified to say the least.
One last question since I'm discussing the wood box door. I have a "whiff" of smoke coming out of the closed/locked down door in the upper left corner. I have turned the bolt in on the door mechanism, but this doesn't seem to make a difference. I have black silicone caulk, but I don't think I can apply it now. Most likely have to wait until the box is done burning wood and let it cool down prior to adding anymore silicone? I feel that I "really" need to seal this door off as it is an air leak and air leaks in these furnaces are a no-no.
Okay, I'm going to tie my fingers up as they are babbling on now. I look forward to any and all comments/ideas/suggestions.
Lugnut
-
Yes, most likely creosote. How wet is the wood you are burning? How long are you going between filling it with wood?
-
RSI...the wood is perfectly dry by about 6-7 years. I don't fill it again until there is hardly any wood left in the box. I've gone out there on several occasions and opened the box door to find maybe a couple chunks of wood blackened but not spent and hot embers in the grating.
Thermostat on the rear of furnace is set at 150 degrees. Am I filling it too often? Or not often enough?
Jerry
-
DO you pack it completely full? When you have more wood in there smoldering you will get more creosote than a smaller pile. If you are filling it once per day, going to twice a day with less wood may help.
-
Hmmmmm...I've been wondering about this very same thing. I actually do fill it twice a day, when I get up and head outside to the shop in the moring, I check it and fill it then. Later in the evening say around 5 or 6pm before I go back in for the evening, I fill it up again and yes, I load it right on up. So perhaps I shouldn't do that? I should just put maybe half of what I've been placing in the box then? and yes, I put I as much wood as I possibly can.
Ya know, the directions with any of these furnaces aren't the greatest in my opinion. It's pretty much up to the buyer/user to learn what works or not. This is why this site is just so gosh darn good.
-
I guess it depends on how much heat you are using. I would try slowly cutting back how much you put in so you don't have it run out and need to to be re-lit.
If you are getting a lot of unburnt charcoal like chunks building up then I would try putting maybe half as much in and see how long that lasts.
-
Thank you for your input. I will do just that beginning tomorrow. At first I was not filling it full of wood and I was feeding it for almost three times a day. Then I thought, "maybe" I need to stuff the wood in there. I mean it felt good when I would check the temps on the pex lines in the basement and they were hot.....which meant I was going to really enjoy my shower that night.
So I will try backing down with the amount of wood. So come Spring I should be able to clean out most of that creosote from the furnace? I know about cleaning the chimney, but I'm hoping I can clean the inside of the box and get all that black stuff out of there as well as cleaning the inside of the doors. I know I will have to replace the insulation that I have between the inner and outer fire box door.
So any suggestions on how to take care of the "whiff" of smoke I'm getting out of the top edge of my firebox door?
By the way, do you reside in Wisconsin and if so where abouts? Oh and do you have a first name? I feel strage sending something to someone whose name is RSI.
-
RSI has given some good advice. I don't know the Shaver all that well other than what I read on their website. I know they boast about operating at lower operating temps than most OWB's because their water circulating pumps don't run 24/7 and have a smaller water capacity.
Doesn't anyone think 150F is a little low? I don't believe it needs to be as high as what CB recommends (185F) but based on the valuable information provided on this board I would think your creosote problem is occurring from overloading, short burns and low set point temps. I know you said your wood is well seasoned, but outside air is being drawn in for the burn. Unless you can get it to burn hot enough, I think your going to get this dripping.
Maybe when the weather gets colder and you get longer burns this will work better for you. I don't know, just thinking out loud......
-
I have a Shaver 290. Try raising your temp. to 170 on 165 off. That should take care of the cresote.
As for the leaking door. Silicone a small piece of metal behind the latch on the stove. I have not
had this problem but I have heard this will work. Good luck!!
-
Welcome to the site JBG
-
Ditto what Bull said! Welcome!
-
wood can be 6-7 years and still have a lot of moisture. Has it been keep in dry under shed? Even covered with tarp it can have alot of moisture, if it has been covered all the way up. Only needs to be covered on top so air can pass through.
-
Thanks all. Cheers from Delaware!!
-
RSI has given some good advice. I don't know the Shaver all that well other than what I read on their website. I know they boast about operating at lower operating temps than most OWB's because their water circulating pumps don't run 24/7 and have a smaller water capacity.
Doesn't anyone think 150F is a little low? I don't believe it needs to be as high as what CB recommends (185F) but based on the valuable information provided on this board I would think your creosote problem is occurring from overloading, short burns and low set point temps. I know you said your wood is well seasoned, but outside air is being drawn in for the burn. Unless you can get it to burn hot enough, I think your going to get this dripping.
Maybe when the weather gets colder and you get longer burns this will work better for you. I don't know, just thinking out loud......
Ridgekid...I appreciate your thinking out loud. My circulating pump is running 24/7 and I discussed this with Shaver. They pretty much stated that if I only run the pump when the thermostat calls for heat, then the life expectancy of said pump will be shorter due to all the starting and stopping. Less chance when the pump is running 24/7 and some of the guys around me run theirs 24/7 as well. The tank in my unit is 230 gallons.
I've attempted to back off on the loading of the furnace, but not sure what defines "backing off." I'm unsure what you mean by "short burns," please explain to the new guy. I set the temperature on the rear thermostat back this afternoon to 130, so I suppose I will see what this does. The cover on the blower motor is open a mere 1/4".
So am I to assume(and yes I do know what this word means. LOL!) that once I get the auto damper, I should maybe set the thermostat up to 170/75? And do I load up the furnace or back down on that as well?
I do apologize for all these questions, but I just don't know...but it's nice to know though, that I'm NOT alone with asking all these questions.
Look forward to the responses.
Lugnut
aka: Jerry
-
I have a Shaver 290. Try raising your temp. to 170 on 165 off. That should take care of the cresote.
As for the leaking door. Silicone a small piece of metal behind the latch on the stove. I have not
had this problem but I have heard this will work. Good luck!!
JBG......I just reset my temp on the rear thermostat again today down to 130 degrees. I've read the Shaver owner's handbook from cover to cover and they really don't tell you much in there as to how to set the thermostat and at what temps. You mention raising the temp to 170 on and 165 off....just how do I go about doing this?
Regarding the "whiff" of smoke at the door, I removed the bolt today and applied anti seize to it and then cleaned the dripping creosote off the inside of the door and gasket and (knock on wood) it was not "whiffing" this evening.
Lugnut aka Jerry
-
I think you will burn less wood once you get the auto damper installed. Right now you are not getting a very hot fire because you have to keep the air closed way down to keep it from overheating between cycles. The air getting in when the blower is off is probably a big part of the black goo that you are getting.
-
Lugnut...What you should do is upgrade to the Ranco aquastat. This will eliminate the use
of the cheap thermostat on the back of the furnace. I don't know why the Ranco is not
standard on these furnaces. :bash: This will allow you to control the water temp at
the touch of a button...
Try turning the thermostat up on the back of the furnace between 150 and 180. This should
help with the creosote. You might have to adjust it a little higher.
That is the problem with those thermostats you just have trial and error.
JBG
Here is one link for a Ranco.
http://www.pexsupply.com/Ranco-ETC-111000-Single-Stage-ETC-Temperature-Control-w-Sensor-120-240V-Input-11627000-p (http://www.pexsupply.com/Ranco-ETC-111000-Single-Stage-ETC-Temperature-Control-w-Sensor-120-240V-Input-11627000-p)
-
JBG,
Thank you for your response. I've been looking at these Rancos and reading about them. I even read through ALL of the postings on the Shaver page of this website with the thread titled "I HATE MY SHAVER!"
I think I'm going to byte the bullet and buy one of these as I'm really getting tired of dialing up and down every other day to find the "sweet" spot with this store bought tstat. I know why those of us bought Shavers, and the money we stick into them in the end isn't all that much really....it's still costing me way less than a Central Boiler or Royal American...and no, I am NOT bashing these companies. I bought the Shaver because it is in my price range and I will be able to recoup my money in 5-6 years as oppsed to 50 years. :-)
So I will order up this Ranco as soon as I get off this website, which might be next year because there's just so much useful information on here. And I mean this in a GOOD way. Thank JGB!!
-
The Ranco that he posted is the same one that I bought to go on my Hardy H2, it works great.
-
lugnut... I agree totally. I did a few upgrades on my furnace and have been very pleased
with it. I have been up and running for almost a year. I can get a good 12hr burn before refilling which works great with my schedule. Keep us posted!
-
Okay guys...I've been off here since Friday evening. The weather has been nice and I took advantage of it to finish up some outside work. Nice the next two days as well.
Friday I received the "auto damper" via UPS from Shaver. What a piece of junk! I have no clue how they can get $125.00 for this. The door over the opening does NOT fit flush with the opening, there is a 1/16" gap around the entire opening...air leak! The hinge is raised up and does NOT allow the cover to lie flat. I've seen the solenoid and cover on Alternative heating for under $50.00. Thinking seriously about calling Shaver and telling them to just send me a check for $125.00 and they can keep their "auto damper" junk. Don't these people have anyone who looks over the stuff before it leaves the shop? Apparently not.
The Ranco 111000 will be ordered up today. I HAVE to do something about the door though. I was at first getting whiffs of sm oke , then it went away and now it's back. I've cleaned the creosote crud off the door/gasket and it's not doing the trick. I'm trying to eliminate all the air leaks.
So guys, tell me what else I can use for gasket material on the door? What's this fire rope? I don't really have the opportunity to let the fire run out and then leave the door open to let it cool down...we have a few cats roaming around the area and the last thing I need is cat on the hot furnace. :)
As before, i thank you in advance for information. Still trying to post photos....computer slwed down on Friday and I became frustrated trying to upload them. Will try again in a moment.
Lugnut