Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: lugnut on December 03, 2011, 09:40:15 AM
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Good morning!!! :thumbup:
So I have a couple questions that I've had bouncing back and forth in my skull over the last couple days.
I read somewhere on this site where someone had mentioned putting a block heater on the furnace somewhere(pex lines?) and using the heat from it to keep everything toasty and warm in case a pump went bad and no one was around to change it out. Would this even work and IF it would, where would one attach it?
I've also seen where someone had discussed wrapping heating strips along the pex...obviously this would have had to be done "prior" to burying the lines?
RSI has given me a price for antifreeze and I'm certain it's in the ball park as far as price goes, but still checking around for other alternatives yet. A whole house generator would seem to be the best, but costly alternative, yet if for some reason I'm away and the power goes out...this too would be most costly than a generator. :bash:
Lugnut
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If you are 'away', the only piece of mind that I could imagine would be the antifreeze.
The redundancy of backup power to keep the pump operating may achieve the purpose of keeping the lines from freezing but if you are additionally concerned about pump failure on top of that, the only option to put your mind at ease would be the antifreeze. With or without power and with or without the pump operating, the antifreeze would be the most reliable option. I'm guessing that you live in a really cold area?
Do understand that I am a newbie to all of this, I'm just analyzing that viscious cycle in your head. :)
Michael
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If you are 'away', the only piece of mind that I could imagine would be the antifreeze.
The redundancy of backup power to keep the pump operating may achieve the purpose of keeping the lines from freezing but if you are additionally concerned about pump failure on top of that, the only option to put your mind at ease would be the antifreeze. With or without power and with or without the pump operating, the antifreeze would be the most reliable option. I'm guessing that you live in a really cold area?
Do understand that I am a newbie to all of this, I'm just analyzing that viscious cycle in your head. :)
Michael
And it IS a vicious cycle Michael. LOL!! I reside in North East Wisconsin...17 miles south of where that 11-0 football teams hails from. :)
Yeah, I'm leaning towards the antifreeze, but I got one price so far from RSI and Shaver told me two weeks ago....that they were waiting for an email back from the company they get their Rust Blocker from, to see if any kind antifreeze would void the Rust Blocker warranty....now this I think is a total crock, just as them waiting for an email is prolly a crock.
I think it in my best interest that "I" call the company and find out. Except for Ruth Ann and "maybe" Mr William Shaver, no one else there seems to know what in the hell they are doing.
Now back to that worm in my head.......
Lugnut
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A whole house generator is not really unrealistic, as long as your home to fire it up. Harbor Freight has a few: http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators.html) When I compare it to the 2000W Honda I paid $900 for 8 years ago those look good enough for my needs.
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A whole house generator is not really unrealistic, as long as your home to fire it up. Harbor Freight has a few: http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators.html) When I compare it to the 2000W Honda I paid $900 for 8 years ago those look good enough for my needs.
Yeah....that's the kicker though...as long as you are home to fire it up. I've made up my mind. I 'm going to shut the OWB down and pull up all the lines, sell the Shaver for scrap and go back to using gas. NOT!!!!!!!
I will make some phone calls on Monday regarding antifreeze and settle down the worms in my head, bite the bullet and splurge for some antifreeze. Just want to feel settled and relaxed knowing that IF something drastic happens such as a power failure and if it is down below freezing...my pipes/OWB/house furnace will be fine.
Lugnut
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Automatic Transfer Switch!
No need to be home, kicks on about 20 seconds after your overpriced electricity goes out!
Consider that if you buy a generator.
Michael
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Folks, harbor freight is a junk store. Yes yes they do sell some thigs that work ok but if it's something you want to depend on to work, buy a quality piece. Honda or Onan generators are great and have a much truer number of kw they will produce.
I've got a buddy with a race team and he tries to buy stuff from harbor freight and it keeps his dad busy working on it all the time. If it has an electric motor on it, walk on by
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Automatic Transfer Switch!
No need to be home, kicks on about 20 seconds after your overpriced electricity goes out!
Consider that if you buy a generator.
Michael
You can probably get an automatic generator for about what the antifreeze would cost. Get a propane model and hook it up to your big LP tank.
You can add a second pump too so if one fails you don't lose circulation. (you could hook the second pump either to just run all the time or only run off the generator.
Also, if you ever get a leak you won't loose all the money you spent on the antifreeze.
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Generator with auto transfere switch good option. I have had 16 kw for 4 yr. works great, not only to keep heat but in my case water since i am on a well. Power goes off generator starts, power on generator shuts down. Runs on propane. Starts once a week to exercise itself.
May cost less than antifreeze. Think i gave around $2,800.00 for mine. Installed myself with help from electrician friend.
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Genrac makes a good system and you probably don't need one as big as Mike has.
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You guys got me thinking.........
I figured I need at least a 10kw generator but don't have lp gas. I see they have units that use BBQ size gas bottles. How long would a dual tank setup last? Too bad I didn't think of this before returning the 100 gallon tank I was using for the swimming pool. :bash:
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Lowes has a 10k natural gas / lp Generac for @2999.00. Am I am sure that you could find one less expensive than that.
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I got a 10 kW Generac LP/NG with Automatic Transfer Switch from Sams for $2400 in Dec 2010. Check online before you buy. That price included delivery too!
Michael
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you might find a goood deal at govdeals they have generators like a cummins 500kw and meny more the one i like is the 1250kva
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ill try the one that i like
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Now THAT is a generator!
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Now THAT is a generator!
Sure is! lol..
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You could power your neighborhood with that and then some LOL
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the way govdeals works is you bid just like ebay but you have to move it govliquidation at the bottom of that post you can get most stuff for only 150.00
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why not look into battery backup , a running pump should not freeze.
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why not look into battery backup , a running pump should not freeze.
He is concerned with pump failure as well as power outage.
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I'm seriously thinking of a generator. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 8-10kw. I don't have ng or lp on site. For those of you that have a generator hooked up to a bottle-how big is your bottle? I'm thinking 100 lbs (25 gallons). What's your thoughts?
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I have a Generac 10kW connected to a 120 gallon propane tank.
At 1/2 load, it burns 1.25 gal/hr.
This generator fires itself up once a week for 15 minutes too.
I recommend a 120 gal. If your power is out for a few days, this would keep your beer fridge running the whole time!
1/2 load at 1.25 gal/hr = 96hrs.
Full load at 1.93 gal/hr = 62hrs.
Hope those figures help you out.
Michael
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Thanks for the info on the usage rate. It just happens I am looking at the same unit you own.
After talking to my wife, we don,t think we,ll need the 120 gallons. ( I know, never say never). In 19 years the longest we were with out electric was in 1994 for 32 hours. The most recent power outage was for 8 hours when a tree went over a power line right down the road. So I'll look into a 50 gallon tank. I know it's risky, but we have a great electric co-op and they have been tree trimming like maniacs the last twos years.
We could always add another 50 gallon tank later.
Next question: you own or rent your tank?
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I rent for $75/year.
Delivery of the tank, connecting it to the gen and filling the tank was around $550. There is no rental fee if you get a full refill of the tank during the year but I doubt I'll even use half a tank.
Its a great unit, comes with automatic transfer switch too. I drained the factory oil and replaced it with synthetic.
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I have a Generac 10kW connected to a 120 gallon propane tank.
At 1/2 load, it burns 1.25 gal/hr.
This generator fires itself up once a week for 15 minutes too.
I recommend a 120 gal. If your power is out for a few days, this would keep your beer fridge running the whole time!
1/2 load at 1.25 gal/hr = 96hrs.
Full load at 1.93 gal/hr = 62hrs.
Hope those figures help you out.
Michael
Michael,
I'd need a lot more juice than that to keep my beer and cider fridge(s) running :D
Marty
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i think a 10KW would run most homes as long as electric air or a heat pumps was not being used (even then it may do it if you have only one of those items)
i have put in a transfer switch in anticipation of a generator but now that the onesmentioned that have thier own engine and test themselves are getting cheaper in price i may get one of them? I still like the idea of the one that goes on my tractor PTO because it remains portable