Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Shaver Furnace => Topic started by: lugnut on January 20, 2012, 01:33:35 PM
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Okay, so here's the deal. I don't know if I'm supposed to have this subject in the "Firewood" page or the "general discussion" page, but being that I'm a Shaver owner and the operator of a Shaver and it involves a Shaver, I suppose I'm okay. IF this belongs somewhere else (be nice) then by all means move it.
First off, allow me to say that I "attempted" several times to install the Ranco myself and I THANK all those who tried to guide me...but alas, I decided to let the professionals do the wiring because frankly, I couldn't tell what the heck was going on. o I would like to report that the Ranco is FINALLY connected. :thumbup:
Of course upon programming this unit I discovered my water temp was a mere 110* WHAT??? Well this is not good...this is unsatisfactory.
My question is this, when you folks go out to your "beasts" in the morning to put wood in, do you throw the big whole pieces in or go with the little stuff and build up over the course of the day? One would "think" that I should know by now. I went out this morning and had medium size pieces of tree left and had hot coals. So I threw a couple of large pieces of tree onto the coals and other tree pieces. Seems like it is going to take forever to get the water temp up and over 110*. For my differential I have the blower coming on at 160 and off at 170. Does this seem about right? But of course I have to get up there first with the present wood in the box.
Anyway, back to the original question, if you have hot coals and a couple pieces of medium sized tree left, do you throw in small trees or med. to large size trees?
Lugnut
Still learning.......
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When I used my conventional boiler I would rake the coals toward the loading door(or the end opposite of the exhaust), put smaller, drier pieces on the bottom, then get progressively bigger as I build the stack higher. You might want to try to keep your temperature up to at least 150* or you'll risk premature boiler failure.
Keep us posted.
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My OWB is homemade and I likely don't follow the conventional norms but I start with smaller pieces till a good fire is established. The biggest pieces pieces are still not that big - 22 inches or so and always split.
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With regular sized split wood, it takes mine to go from well water cold 55 to 170 in 1 hour. After a 12 hour burn, I still have enough left that I just throw in the days supply and refill at night.
I can't imajine what your temp gauge is measuring with a fire going all day with coals and wood left over that your temps are that low.
If your water was 110 your blower would never shut off.......
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Well now this does help significantly. I thought I should be going with the smaller and then larger pieces. I will give this a try in the morning. Been outside most of the afternoon...nice a balmy -3*. Water temp is up to 125* so far. Ya know, i had that cheap p.o.c. t-stat in from the Shaver manufacturing plant...(tongue in cheek) and who knows if it even worked...seems all the times I had gone outside to either put wood in or just putz around, the darn thing never idled .....oooops, wait I take that back, it did idle yesterday.
The junk t-stat dialed in between 120 up to 180* and like I said, I don't know if it worked. I basically did the hand check. Wrap my hand around the nipple coming out of the pump on the rear of the furnace...there was hardly a time, except for this early afternoon after the Ranco was installed, that I could keep my hand on the pipe. So I think I'm good for avoiding any premature boiler burn out.
So I loaded up the box pretty good at 5:00pm this evening. Will go back out around 8:00p and check the temps again. Hopefully the water temp will be at 165. I changed the "dif" again before coming in. ON: 165/ OFF 175. Thjis is going to be so much fun now....yes I'm easy to please....so much fun knowing that I'll be able to tell what the water temp is....and I'll save the skin on my hand. :thumbup:
So since my 40+ yr old splitter died last weekend, guess I'll have to take some of my big pieces of tree over to neighbor Dan's house and get him to split some of it into quarters so that I can have some small stuff.
THIS IS WHY I LIKE THIS SITE SO MUCH.....THANK YOU !! :thumbup:
Lugnut
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With regular sized split wood, it takes mine to go from well water cold 55 to 170 in 1 hour. After a 12 hour burn, I still have enough left that I just throw in the days supply and refill at night.
I can't imajine what your temp gauge is measuring with a fire going all day with coals and wood left over that your temps are that low.
If your water was 110 your blower would never shut off.......
BINGO!! you win the cu-pee doll!! Ed, the blower never did shut off, even though the pipes were darn hot to hold. I have no clue other than the fact that the P.O.C. t-stat was junk from the get-go. That's like when I first fired it up and I didn't have the larger motor right from the start along with the damper because the third grader at Shaver missed class that day for reading work orders.......so the t-stat was prolly junk from the beginning and I was going through dried oak like it was water.
I think the problem was that the blower was on WOT and burning through wood at a rapid pace and when the wood was gone....the blower had nothing better to do than to blow all day/night long, thus "cooling" the temps in the firebox....if this makes any sense.?
I'm hoping that this Ranco that EVERYONE craves about will be my wood savior. It will be so nice to be able to fill the box once in the morning and then again in the evening....lately I've been going out to fill three sometimes four times a day/night. Let me tell yoiu , when I'm all nice and warm inside, the very LAST thing I want to do is throw every thing on and go out to check the firebox. Grrrrr :bash:
Jerry
p.s. say Ed, if you don't have to take that cu-pee doll...it's just a saying.
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Jerry, I really feel for ya here. I think you are having way more trouble than anyone deserves. If Greenleaf wasn't so far away I would personaly drive there and try to help you out. This is what I do: Rake your coals, then start with a few smaller pieces then switch over to larger ones. Make sure your full rounds have a least 1 buddy. A single round will not burn well by itself. I am concered though when you say you are loading your stove 3 or 4 times in 24hrs. Do you mean you are adding wood or are you saying the wood is gone and you are filling the stove back up? Tell me again how much you are heating and how warm you are keeping it. -Matt
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Perhaps your stove is underpowered for the application or you have heat loss underground. Our 165 will give a 14 hour burn on a -20 degree overnight........completely stock. 3000 sq. ft. and DHW. Still not sure about all of the "necessary" mods that folks are suggesting.
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Perhaps your stove is underpowered for the application or you have heat loss underground. Our 165 will give a 14 hour burn on a -20 degree overnight........completely stock. 3000 sq. ft. and DHW. Still not sure about all of the "necessary" mods that folks are suggesting.
i agree with the above statment. if your blower ran steady untill your wood ran out and never boiled over, the heat was going somwhere? i agree with swede, it was one of two places, into the house where it was needed or into the ground from poor underground lines. if you fill any kind of these outdoor boilers with dry wood and the blower that feeds them blows non stop and the aire flow is not restricted (in or out) you either use the heat or boil the water
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The saga continues......
Lug I can't imagine the wood your wasting.... Hope u get it fixed
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Perhaps your stove is underpowered for the application or you have heat loss underground. Our 165 will give a 14 hour burn on a -20 degree overnight........completely stock. 3000 sq. ft. and DHW. Still not sure about all of the "necessary" mods that folks are suggesting.
i agree with the above statment. if your blower ran steady untill your wood ran out and never boiled over, the heat was going somwhere? i agree with swede, it was one of two places, into the house where it was needed or into the ground from poor underground lines. if you fill any kind of these outdoor boilers with dry wood and the blower that feeds them blows non stop and the aire flow is not restricted (in or out) you either use the heat or boil the water i guess i should have added it could be going out the stack as well (but i think it would still boil the water)
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This is directed towards EVERYONE who posted me on this issue:
Well, first off...the water is NOT boiling out. I actually check this every other day just to be safe...remember I'm still learning. Now what I had noticed since yesterday...ta da! We finally got the Ranco connected and is it ever a blessing.
The deal with going through all the wood was due to the blower NEVER shutting down, thus constant flow of air under the wood and burning it up quickly...because of the P.O.S. t-stat that Shaver uses. It was prolly junk when I got the furnace. I don't ever recall the darn OWF idling as it should..."maybe" a couple times, but that's it. So in essence as I am saying is that the blower motor was running 24/7, hence the burning of more wood.
There is nothing wrong with the pex lines under ground. I have NO snow melt and the lines are NOW boiling hot as opposed to what they were Thursday night.
I did notice though when the blower was working non-stop...there was plenty of smoke/heat going up out through the stack...so I was basically heating the atmosphere. The heated water supplies my DHW and house furnace.
So upon my waking up this morning, I went out to the furnace and noticed that ALL the wood was spent and that I had nice hot coals...prior to the Ranco, I would have some what hot coals left over and medium sized chunks of trees left as well. I did go outside a few times last night and noticed straight away that the Ranco was operating as it should...it was idling and THIS FINALLY was a good thing.
Swede...your 165 will give you a 14 hour burn at -20*. What size are you heating? I'm heating a 3700 sq ft house with the 250 Shaver and water is going through plate exchanger for the DWH.
Matt....I "was" going out at night "adding" wood. Last night I filled the furnace at 5:30 and although the wood was spent this morning at 0830, I had plenty of heat in the house and the water temp in the tank was at 113. Oh and I alternate between setting the indoor t-stat to "ON" at 73 * or to AUTO set at 68*. I have the Ranco set at 165: ON /175:OFF
Jerry
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Jerry, I really feel for ya here. I think you are having way more trouble than anyone deserves. If Greenleaf wasn't so far away I would personaly drive there and try to help you out. This is what I do: Rake your coals, then start with a few smaller pieces then switch over to larger ones. Make sure your full rounds have a least 1 buddy. A single round will not burn well by itself. I am concered though when you say you are loading your stove 3 or 4 times in 24hrs. Do you mean you are adding wood or are you saying the wood is gone and you are filling the stove back up? Tell me again how much you are heating and how warm you are keeping it. -Matt
And by the way Matt...Greenleaf is NEVER far away! :thumbup: LOL!! This is why I ask where fellows reside, because "maybe' someone does live close by me.
Jerry
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Lug ya gotta figure out how to keep that temp from dropping down that low if you can.. It can cause your stove to wear out much faster according to some
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I'm heating a 3000 sq. ft. home with a 140,000 btu forced air heat exhanger and using the shaver DHW coil. The factory thermostat works well and shuts down the blower at exactly the same point every time. I use a basic boiler thermometer on an unused port to keep tabs on the temperature.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p12/swedesleds/Shavertempguage.jpg)
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Swede your one of the few that have got them to work properly
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Lug ya gotta figure out how to keep that temp from dropping down that low if you can.. It can cause your stove to wear out much faster according to some
Scott,
I imagine if I get up and outside by 0530, I can maintain the temps at above 113*, but the body says we're not getting up that early. It's my understanding that the reason the boilers break down is because of creosote and moisture build up of which I have neither. Now the other thing to take into consideration the last three nights the temps have been in the minus category...such as Thursday night when I was outside putting wood in da box, it was a -11* and that wasn't even figuring in the windchill. this morning the temp in the tank was 113*, but of course it was down in the - dbl digits again last night.
I'm NOT doubting anyone's word here, just giving y'all the facts as I get them.
Jerry
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Swede your one of the few that have got them to work properly
Ditto....... :bash:
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Lug nut, i was referring to wear and tear by the amount of o2 in the water.. At 180 there is none, and the lower the temp the more of it there is, this is what leads to the failure I was referring to, much more chances for rusting
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Lug nut, i was referring to wear and tear by the amount of o2 in the water.. At 180 there is none, and the lower the temp the more of it there is, this is what leads to the failure I was referring to, much more chances for rusting
So what do you do about it during the off season?
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Swede your one of the few that have got them to work properly
Ditto....... :bash:
Just got a 24 hour burn last night with the stock 165 - temps climbed to 20 and I loaded it full........ever had a thermostat fail on your electric water heater? If installed properly there should be no problem.
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Swede your one of the few that have got them to work properly
Ditto....... :bash:
Just got a 24 hour burn last night with the stock 165 - temps climbed to 20 and I loaded it full........ever had a thermostat fail on your electric water heater? If installed properly there should be no problem.
Well obviously there was a problem because the t-stat directly from Shaver was junk. I don't worry about that anymore since having the Ranco wired up. Still don't see how you're getting that much burn time with that 165. Most I've seen on heere with "any" OWF is maybe 14hrs and that's pushing it. Oh well....less gas you have to use. :thumbup:
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Swede your one of the few that have got them to work properly
Ditto....... :bash:
Just got a 24 hour burn last night with the stock 165 - temps climbed to 20 and I loaded it full........ever had a thermostat fail on your electric water heater? If installed properly there should be no problem.
if i didn't own a 165 and have another 165 across the hill from me and 2 CBs and a hardy in the area and no body gets a 24hr burn, most are at or 14hr @20deg.
and if you are using the standard blower(slide) flap and not a sealed of damper door i don't see how this is possible with no or little control of the air getting to the fire,,,, my guess is you home is very well insulated and the heat demand is next to none.
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I know it sounds like bs.....really though there was enough unburned wood along the sides of the firebox to pull together for the day without adding. Stove was filled with a very large load of wood and not as cold out as expected. I expect 14+ hour burns in sub zero weather but when its warmer it uses much less wood and stove is at idle much of the time.
jimr, I agree with you. Its not that the stove is so great but there are other variables that affect efficiency. I believe that the Badger 5 wrap insulated line was a good investment and one off the biggest contributors to what is proving to be an efficient set up.
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I fill my stove only once a day, but its takin me a long time to get to this point. I think the biggest problem alot of you are gonna find is that your cold water returns are some what recycling right back where the pumps draw from. Those cold water returns need to be the farthest away from where your pumps draw from and Shaver just has them stubbed into the back and claim the pressure from the pumps will shoot all the way to the front of the stove. If your furnace kicks on and then not to long after that your fan for the boiler kicks on then your not using all the available heat out of the stove. My stove keeps up with only loading it once a day until its gets below 20*. It is inside a woodshed and heats a house 2000sq. foot but also runs to a unit heater in my shop that I dont use cause its not insulated. So its like I'm cycling it thru a freezer and I probably would be better off if I just did away with it but I use it on occasion. It has the Ranco, blower mod with the 75cfm fan, cold water pipes running to the front, rear top opening plate is not there as I did away with that when I had new top and bottom steel replaced and it sits on top of concrete blocks for much easier loading with all new insulation including the bottom. It also has 12 foot of double wall chimney pipe. Using a 5" to 6" adaptor (about $5) fit right inside the chimney and hooks up to the 6" pipe.