Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers with NON EPA-Certified Models Only => Shaver Furnace => Topic started by: tshepler on January 29, 2012, 06:47:15 PM
-
Ok so here it goes!!!! I have had my Shaver 165 for three winters and am still not getting the results I want. I have several problems and am looking for any help I can get. I am not super savvy so the more detailed descriptions the better.
Problems:
When I turn on the water fill valve on the side of my stove the water runs out and then starts coming out from the back of the stove between the siding and the area that was cut open for the factory thermostat i guess its like a heat plate???
Next my blower is not pushing out enough air. When I open my door with the blower running the wood is just smoldering?
Thirdly, I put my pipes in 6 inch corrugated 3 1/2 feet deep. I insulated pipes and even still the ground is always melted and wet?
What can I do to make this stove work? My furnace is connected to forced air and we rarely can get our house above 70. Sq ft 1700. I will admit our house is old and has no insulation.
Sorry for all the complaints!!!! I want to make this stove work.
-
I can't help you with the first 2, but I can tell you you are losing a ton of btu's to the ground if you are melting snow. The problem is there is no way to fix the underground issuses without digging it up and replacing it. As unpleasant as that is your stove probably won't ever perform the way it should if you are trying to heat a unlimited amount of ground water.
-
sounds like stove is out of level.lower in the back and dhw plate not sealed good. so when you turnon fill valve it overflows out dhw plate. as far wood smoldering is your side cover on your fan open 1\3 to 1\2.also raking hot coals toward the door helps. or maybe pluged flue pipe
-
Tree climber. I don't see water leaking from dhw plate it comes right from that exposed heat plate area?? I have slider in blower open the whole way ??
-
Sounds like your chimney may be plugged with creosote not letting air in.
If your using a home made line,Your losing a LOT of your heat to the ground if it's keeping the ground thawed and wet. I've not seen a home made line yet that even compares to the cheapest triple wrap. as long as your thawing the ground, your not going to get good results from your stove.
Also don't assume deeper is better as far as your ditch, once the heat escapes your lines it's gone, dirt is not an insulator. It's sitting there absorbing heat that your obviously losing.
So I'd start by cleaning the chimey just to rule it out and start making plans to get some good line.
-
I can't help you with the first 2, but I can tell you you are losing a ton of btu's to the ground if you are melting snow. The problem is there is no way to fix the underground issuses without digging it up and replacing it. As unpleasant as that is your stove probably won't ever perform the way it should if you are trying to heat a unlimited amount of ground water.
If it doesn't have any sharp bents in it, you might be able to pull it out and pull in some new line inside the 6" corrugated pipe. If you can get a 3 wrap with the corrugated pipe in, it would be much better than what you have.
-
Tree climber. I don't see water leaking from dhw plate it comes right from that exposed heat plate area?? I have slider in blower open the whole way ??
tshepler.....you need to silicone the snot out of that upper plate in the rear top of the furnace. Do you have the DHW coils in your Shaver? The plate that is in the upper most rear of the furnace NEEDS to be siliconed shut. The ONLY time you will ever have to remove that plate again is is you have to replace/clean-out the coil.
The slider/damper on the motor should only be open 1/2 - 1/3 of the way....do NOT close it or all you will get is smoldering of the wood.
First as everyone suggests is to check the flue for creosote build up.....and this build up will be caused by NOT getting a rip roaring fire in there. Bet you have "black slime" oozing from the doors when you open them as well? Also, you might want to check that cheapo t-stat that is in the rear of the furnace. Mine was "supposedly" new from the factory, but after a while it died...within two months of my having the furnace. While the furnace is running, you can "carefully" take a small screwdriver and turn the temp screw down and see if it shuts off the blower motor. At what temp do you have the t-stat set?
Lugnut
-
I will try sealing dhw plate. I do have domestic hot water coil running. Blower is always open full. Do they make a bigger blower. I will work on cleaning the flu awhile.
-
Ok so i am going to dig my lines up and replace them with something better insulated, any suggestions or websites where to buy? Also I need a bigger blower? Any ideas or good sites for that?
-
I could give you a quote on your pipe if you'll tell me what kind your looking for and give me a length, don't cut yourself short, pm me
-
Ok so i am going to dig my lines up and replace them with something better insulated, any suggestions or websites where to buy? Also I need a bigger blower? Any ideas or good sites for that?
Shep.....may I call you this?
BEFORE we move on...was this a NEW furnace that you got? Did you receive an OWNER'S INSTRUCTION MANUAL with the unit?
Before you go digging up your lines, you should take a look at everything else first. Is the unit on a solid surface? Concrete slab or gravel? Is that surface level? Is your furnace level? I ask this because with my first and last Shaver 165 the frame was all contorted and not square no matter what one would do to it.
You do NOT want to clean the flue while the stack/firebox is hot. Let it cool down to almost nothing and you will be fine. Unless you have a 5" chimney brush, that's what size you will need to do the flue..I had to special order mine. Clean that bad boy out several times.
How about the creosote build up in the unit? Do you have the black slime oozing out when ever you open the doors?
The plate in the rear is easy to seal, it's just a pain to get to. More time consuming, but it WILL be worth your time. Use a GOOD quality silicone. I found that it's accessible best by removing the rear roof ridge and then the rear face panels and then stand on a ladder and lift or remove the insulation and wipe down the surface really well....next you will want to remove some of the water as you will want the silicone to stick...other wise if there is warm/hot water in the tank, the silicone will NOT adhere as well. YOu can drain the water and just look for yourself by lifting the plate as to how far the water had gone down....I let it drain to where the level was about 1 foot below the plate. While you have the plate off, you will find that the plate rests atop of an edge that is inside the frame...make certain that plate rests flush on that edge...then silicone all along where the gap is and do it really well.
It IS imperative that you get that plate ENTIRELY sealed!!! Many issues stem from not having this plate sealed.
Now I've given you some ideas what to do, but like I mentioned, before you go pulling up your water lines, take the fore mentioned steps first.
Regarding your wanting to get a larger blower motor...there are a few fellows on here who have the plain jane stock 165 with the same 50 cfm blower motor and slide damper along with the t-stat that originally came with the unit and EVERTHING works fine for them. I'm hoping some of them will chime in here. "You need first deal with the basics". I don't know where you live, but if you are located where it gets cold and snows a lot, you might want to wait until Spring before you go ripping things up...you will ONLY get more frustrated.
Lugnut
-
Good advice from lug but as long as your melting snow/earth there are no adjustments on the stove to correct that, I'd be afraid to see how much heat your losing to the ground
-
I would try to pull new lines through the 6" before digging them up.
-
Ok Shep is fine lug. I live in PA pretty cold. Not like the midwest. I am going to wait till spring to do the lines. I have a backhoe so digging them up is not hard. I have a Ranco thermostat hooked up although it shorted because the leak from the back of the tank got water on the unit. I am ordering another ranco. Is it a bad idea to drill a hole through the dhw plate and insert the ranco sensor directly into the water? I will work on other corrections first and will do lines this spring or summer.
Still would like recommendation on a fan.
-
did you extend the chimney
-
I highly recommend the Badger 5 wrap pipe and believe that it is the best that money can buy. http://badgerpipe.3dcartstores.com/ (http://badgerpipe.3dcartstores.com/)
Our Shaver 165 is completely stock and works well. Learned quickly that creosote will plug the chimney so built a scraper/cleaner that can be used from the ground. I take about 30 seconds every few days to run it through the chimney. Next year I will have seasoned wood and am contemplating a couple of the mods suggested on this board so maybe the unit will get even better.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p12/swedesleds/Shaverchimneyscraper.jpg)
-
I agree about the 5 wrap but you can get it cheaper through dealers. I sell it for less than they do direct.
-
This is just my thought and I know not everyone will agree with me here but, if your pipe is going to be buried where the water table flucuates I would be nervious to put in anything other than logstor.
-
RSI what is your price per foot on the 5 wrap and what is your contact info.
-
I don't usually try selling stuff here. You can find my website with a google search real easy.
-
Ok Shep is fine lug. I live in PA pretty cold. Not like the midwest. I am going to wait till spring to do the lines. I have a backhoe so digging them up is not hard. I have a Ranco thermostat hooked up although it shorted because the leak from the back of the tank got water on the unit. I am ordering another ranco. Is it a bad idea to drill a hole through the dhw plate and insert the ranco sensor directly into the water? I will work on other corrections first and will do lines this spring or summer.
Still would like recommendation on a fan.
Regarding the Ranco.....okay, since you haven't siliconed the top plate in yet...don't. Here's what you have to do regarding the Ranco, actually you can do this one of two ways. You have to either "make" or "buy" a dry well. "The probe on the end of the sensor wire on the Ranco can NOT go directly into the water. " I cheated and went to Menard's and bought a 12" copper tube that was soldered and coned on the bottom; then I bought a male adapter to solder on to the opposite end so that the dry well would not slide into the tank. Most fellas on here have done it the easier was because they may have had tubing lying around...I didn't. Take a piece of copper tubing 12" long by 1/4 or 1/2" and solder a cap on the bottom; get a male adapter and solder that on the other end, again so it will NOT fall into the tank.
NOW since you haven't siliconed that plate in, I would remove the plate altogether and take it where ever and drill a hole into that plate, preferably 2" from the rear most edge ....make the hole the SAME size as the copper tube. put the plate back into it's frame and THEN silicone the snot out of it.....take the dry well tube and slide it into the hole and then (THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT) silicone "carefully" around the male adapter really good. You might want to hold onto the center of it with one finger and then silicone with the other hand.....drop that probe into the well and voila! You're done with that part. Now, I will NOT even begin to tell you how to wire that bad boy up....I cheated, I called in the professionals.
Next......
Jerry
-
as for the fan open back door look and see if fan is turning when motor is runing. if it is unbolt it and make sure there is nothing blocking hole. also make sure grates are not stoped up with thick ash
-
Get the 75 cfm blower with solenoid. i think you can get it from altheatsupply.com. Hope this helps.
-
you can get a bigger fan but its not going to help if its not getting in fire box. if my side cover on fan was open over half way it would boil over
-
To save me some typing, read this and click on my links
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=756.msg4757;topicseen#msg4757 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=756.msg4757;topicseen#msg4757)
-
I highly recommend the Badger 5 wrap pipe and believe that it is the best that money can buy. http://badgerpipe.3dcartstores.com/ (http://badgerpipe.3dcartstores.com/)
Our Shaver 165 is completely stock and works well. Learned quickly that creosote will plug the chimney so built a scraper/cleaner that can be used from the ground. I take about 30 seconds every few days to run it through the chimney. Next year I will have seasoned wood and am contemplating a couple of the mods suggested on this board so maybe the unit will get even better.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p12/swedesleds/Shaverchimneyscraper.jpg)
Thats the pex I have. No melted snow. I want to get a heat temperature reader gun thing and check the temp at the boiler and at the house. Its supposedly rated at like .6 degree f heat loss at 500'. We will see when I get that heat meter.
-
so how is the 165 doing or still having problems
-
Well I cleaned up my wiring and sealed the dhw plate. I replaced the fan and found out mine was not working. The motor ran but was not spinning the blades so no air. I also insulated the furnace. It seems to be running very well. I am putting my new Ranco on tonight. I made a drywell from copper.
I still have two questions.
What temp and differential should i set my ranco at? Remember I am losing someheat underground but dont want my fan running constantly.
I sealed the dhw as best i could. However there is a significant gap in the back the metal plate sits flat but the metal near the stove pipe is arched like it bent how should i seal that. Also at the front of the dhw plateon either side their are to big gaps down below the aluminum siding how do you seal those. I did not want to drop silicone into the tank.
Other than that I am very happy with stove right now.
-
i would put in sulation between siding. as for dhw plate i got a large tube of hi temp cylicone from auto parts store and put in caulk gun makes wider beed. glad to here things are looking up.
-
Kudos to forum members trying to help tshepler. So cool to have these things posted...no doubt your words of advice will live on and help many others in the future with similar issues. Hopefully the google crawlers pick up on the specific problems/solutions and yield good search results when people search.