Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: Jack72 on February 04, 2012, 06:23:21 AM
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Hello everyone
I have a side arm now with a recirculating pump on the bottom side of sidearm exchanger to help force the water through the exchanger for quicker recovery (it constanly circulates through the exchanger instead of thery of automactic circulation through heat rising and creating a automatic circulation If that makes sense) My question is I would like to make sure I dont run out. MY question is could I get a 20 plate installed before the cold water supply coming in the water heater to say preheat or make hot coming into tank and run seperate supply to mixing valve cold port. I would like to install after my hot water to air exchanger (just because I have the sidearm already) on my house furnace so I dont affect the air temp coming out of the registers. I hope this makes sense Its been good usually the problem I have is on weekends when wife is doing alot of loads of wash and showers etc catching up from long work week. ( I think everything is right as far as my hookup(piping) My tank could be bigger maybe I should of bough a 50 gal or 75 (I have a 40 gal now in the off position) Dont get me wrong I have alot of hot water now but when the wife is doing 3-6 loads of ex-large loads of hot water right after another and then wants to hop in shower after the wash is done the water hasn't caught up yet and her shower is just warm not hot That does not go over well >:( She lets me know if you know what I mean she does not want to wait 10-20 minutes for the tank to catch up which I know thats all it would take to catch up Thanks everyone
Jack
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i wouldnt buy another tank. I use only a 20 plate exchanger with no tanks and have endless hot water. So hot i had to add a mixing valve to bring the temp to 120. I ran the boiler water through the plate exchanger first because i wanted more of a constant temp when heating the water. In my case the water is so hot i have to mix alot of cold water to it so im not using very much hot water. I actually dont notice much of a temp drop on my return line with the shower runing
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Most people here who install systems for others say a XX plate exchanger before the water tank is best. I understand the thinking but I couldn't get past why we would want to heat water just to sit in the tank and bleed off your precious BTUs. I have a 50 plate after my water heater and before my two air exchangers, no mixing valve and my boiler set at 185. Yes the water is flippin hot, about 2/3 on the cold side to take a shower, but I never ever have load problem - washer, dishwasher teenage girls in a Jacuzzi tub - no issues. My thinking with these systems is the simpler the better, side arm & pump were just variables I chose to remove from my system. I would think differently, safety first, if I were getting paid to install but for me simple is better.
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What kind of a sidearm do you have? Going with a better one might be all you need to do to get enough.
Going with a pre-heater 20 plate would make sure you never run out of hot water.
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Thanks for the help
Donahue I have the tank because I thought that the sidearm was my only option I should of researched a little more but my dealer never said anything about a plate exchanger when I first bought everything he told me I had to get a side arm exchanger if I wanted to heat my water. I saw the plate exchangers in the diagrams but in my book it only showed it for a pool I guess if I would of thought about a little more I would have figured that out. But I got ahead of myself on that one. Why do you have yours after your water heater and not before Just curious.
Rsi your question what kind of sidearm?
my dealer ordered from central boiler with the stove Its 37 inches long with 3/4 inch supply and return I figured since I have it already I would just buy a 20 plate and put it before or after. I thought the reason you heat a tank up was so you didnt have any temp change if hot water was being used in two different spots at the same time. Thats why I would prefer the plate xx before the tank
Let me know if Im off base on my thinking you guys have been doing this alot longer than I have I just dont want any major fluctuations in the hot water because I will hear about it... :-\
Thanks Jack
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Jack72, you have the same problem I had. My wife wants to take, in her words a 15 minute shower, which is in reality a 45 minute shower. I had already installed a large side arm which gave me a lot of very hot water, but after a time it would get cool. I purchased a 20 plate with 1 inch lines and put it in the cold water line before the water tank and so far, no mater how hard she tries, the one we call crazy, is unable to run me out of hot water. The plate heater is also the last before my pex goes back to the boiler. Sometimes I feel like I over do projects like digging a 4 ft trench for insulated line and pouring a 10 x 20 slab for boiler, and would love to hear about others overdoing, might make me feel a little normal. Hope you never run out of hot water again!
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Jack72, you have the same problem I had. My wife wants to take, in her words a 15 minute shower, which is in reality a 45 minute shower. I had already installed a large side arm which gave me a lot of very hot water, but after a time it would get cool. I purchased a 20 plate with 1 inch lines and put it in the cold water line before the water tank and so far, no mater how hard she tries, the one we call crazy, is unable to run me out of hot water. The plate heater is also the last before my pex goes back to the boiler. Sometimes I feel like I over do projects like digging a 4 ft trench for insulated line and pouring a 10 x 20 slab for boiler, and would love to hear about others overdoing, might make me feel a little normal. Hope you never run out of hot water again!
Thanks JT
Thats exactly the answer I was looking for I dont mind doing it and spending money for it if it makes it right I didnt know for sure. so with what you said that seals the deal thanks. Curious what size tank do you have? I will have to look did you put any pictures of your stove and pad on the general site?? Jack
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Jack glad I could help. My think my tank size is 40 or 50 gal, but I realy dont think it matters with the set up I have, your water will always be smokin. And I have not found out how to download pix yet, it always says my pix are to big. Good luck
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Jack,
You really have two choices when you go the plate route before or after. I just couldn't see using the tank in front of what basically is a on demand setup with the plate exchanger. The on demand water heaters like Rinnai have no tank. As we all know there are pros and cons to both, a plate in the supply side will solve your issue for sure. Take a look at the cost difference for 30-40-50 plate not much more money and better water flow. In my design my circ pump was going to run 24x7 so an on demand setup in the crawl space after the water heater worked for me - never run out of hot water - my gas valve is off to my water heater and I love it!
Good luck,
JamieJamie
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Jack glad I could help. My think my tank size is 40 or 50 gal, but I realy dont think it matters with the set up I have, your water will always be smokin. And I have not found out how to download pix yet, it always says my pix are to big. Good luck
Okay thanks Looks like a nice setup you have there Looks very nice And a nice piece of property
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Jack,
You really have two choices when you go the plate route before or after. I just couldn't see using the tank in front of what basically is a on demand setup with the plate exchanger. The on demand water heaters like Rinnai have no tank. As we all know there are pros and cons to both, a plate in the supply side will solve your issue for sure. Take a look at the cost difference for 30-40-50 plate not much more money and better water flow. In my design my circ pump was going to run 24x7 so an on demand setup in the crawl space after the water heater worked for me - never run out of hot water - my gas valve is off to my water heater and I love it!
Good luck,
Jamie
you might even laugh when I tell you this but I have a a tankless now (cant see in the pictures but its hanging on the wall to right of my tank heater that I will turn back on this summer. When I bought the stove my dealer he knew I had a tankless and I told him that I did and he said well the only way you can heat your water is to buy a tank again and a side arm exchanger. Something I wish I had done was been on this site talking to you guys so I knew about these things (apparently my dealer dont) Oh well live and learn. I probably will go with the 50 plate so there is no restrictions. Jack
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I was looking online they do make a 20 plate with 1 inch ports Maybe since I have the side arm already maybe the 20 plate would be enough.? The site that's selling it said unless you plan on running the hot water more than three hours their is no need for a bigger one. according to them Jack
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Lol, how would the amount of time have anything to do with how big you need? The amount of water that is flowing through it would determine if it is too small.
I still think a decent side arm would take care of your problem. If you want to try one I would be willing to send you one and if you don't like it you can send it back and if you do then you can pay for it.
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My twenty with 1 inch is plenty big for me. I have never ever ran out of piping hot water
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Jack, My dealer also told me a side arm was the best way to go. If I was to do it again I would just get a 40 or 50 plate and not worry about the water heater, but after I put the side arm on, I didnt want to change everything besides the money I had put out. One more thing to think about is weather you have soft water, I have heard guys on hear say the plate heaters can build up deposits. Good luck
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Jack, My dealer also told me a side arm was the best way to go. If I was to do it again I would just get a 40 or 50 plate and not worry about the water heater, but after I put the side arm on, I didnt want to change everything besides the money I had put out. One more thing to think about is weather you have soft water, I have heard guys on hear say the plate heaters can build up deposits. Good luck
I agree now that I have it Ill leave it too I think once I put the plate exchanger on I will remove the recir pump their wont be no need for that anymore it will just be wasting electricity. Jack