Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: scarface77 on November 23, 2012, 02:00:40 PM
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My burner runs at 150 then blower fan kicks on and at 160 it shuts off, what I've been reading most people have there set point at 185. Is this the magic set point and will it make the burner run more efficient.
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I have mine set at 180 on and 165 off. Seems to less creosote but I burn a little more wood. My furnace blower does not run as long to heat up my house. Saves me on the electricity end of it.
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I tried 160-170 but others say to stay at 170-180 to save the life of the steel.my opinion is run 170-180 but strip your stove down and pack it full of r19 insulation. Its just like a house, make it better inulated and save heat. I can't believe how my stove don't run near as much since I insulated it fully.
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My cb1400 is set at 188 with a 7 degree drop before going on
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I keep ours at 180. I have tried different settings and really doesnt seem to make a difference in wood usage. I have noticed that the 180 with a 15 degree difference makes smoke not near as bad.
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150-160 for me from here on out. 170-180 uses lots more wood.
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All depends on what you are running for a boiler, My Portage and Main 250 is always run at the shows at 190+ and has a stack temp of 270, as you can see we lose very little up the stack and the higher temps are definatly better for the boiler, if you are running a conventional boiler do what the manufacturer or dealer suggests, they know the product the best and are the ones that will have to deal with any warranty claims. Most of you guys are running the conventional boilers I know but if you want a real eye opener, check your stack temps at the breach of the boiler.
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My firebox stays cleaner at the higher temps, 170-185 for a set point
If your firebox gets nasty enough at low temps it will burn the same amount of wood
From an investment stand point it makes no sense to try to save a tid bit of wood when your boiler is better off at a higher temp
For you guys burning at 150-160, if you don't know your delta t your playing a dangerous game, that has no benefit much, but if your at 150 if your delta t is more than 10 it's causing damage, and I bet no one has a delta t much under 20
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Wholeheartedly agreed Scott, how have you been, I just got back from demoing at the Fryburg Fair, 10 days of fair food and talking to lots of people, man am I ready for some time off from the shows, one more left next weekend in beautiful Sandwhich, NH. then it's install time.
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I thought I read somewhere if it's set too low your firebox will sweat and rust out. I could be wrong
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I would generally agree, some manufacturers however choose to limit the temps on their units, don't know why, it may be that they are concerned with inside firebox temps getting to high and cracking welds or something of the sort. I do not agree with them but then again I don't build or warranty their products, again you should follow the manufacturers suggestions.
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I thought I read somewhere if it's set too low your firebox will sweat and rust out. I could be wrong
Yes they will
There is a nc here at my buddies place, an NBC 175 that rusted out due to some low return temps
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Winter temp - 165-180. Summer - 155-170.
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when its still half way warm 170 to help reduce boiling, 185 when it gets cold, I have baseboards and need high temps to get hear, even tried 190 when it real cold last winter.
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I thought I read somewhere if it's set too low your firebox will sweat and rust out. I could be wrong
Yes they will
There is a nc here at my buddies place, an NBC 175 that rusted out due to some low return temps
Do You know what the temp was set at?
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I thought I read somewhere if it's set too low your firebox will sweat and rust out. I could be wrong
Yes they will
There is a nc here at my buddies place, an NBC 175 that rusted out due to some low return temps
Do You know what the temp was set at?
Customer was set at 165 with a 10 degree differential, but his pump was undersized and delta t was likely 50-60 degrees, about 40 more than he could stand
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when its still half way warm 170 to help reduce boiling, 185 when it gets cold, I have baseboards and need high temps to get hear, even tried 190 when it real cold last winter.
Reduce boiling??!
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Scott how many years did your buddy get out of the one that rusted out?
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It was an 09 model I do believe.
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Was he the guy heating his pool with it?
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Nope, just home and hot water
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How far was his stove from his house? I know way too many people that have made 20yrs running 160 with no issues. Maybe his stove was built on a Monday.
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Makes no difference if his stove was 10 feet or 300, delta t was the same
If there pumps are oversized they may be able to get by with 160, but u were telling me last season that all your buddies fire boxes were completely caked with creosote?
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I will believe it when mine rusts out.
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Excellent approach... maybe then you can trade a couple loads of wood for a new stove :thumbup:
I really don't see what you think your gaining? I've got numerous messages here from ya I was just reading where you were talking about how nasty there fire boxes were and how you weren't gonna let yours get like that and at the time you were running hotter and proclaiming the benefits of it?! I am lost.
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I am lost.
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I thought I read somewhere if it's set too low your firebox will sweat and rust out. I could be wrong
Yes they will
There is a nc here at my buddies place, an NBC 175 that rusted out due to some low return temps
Do You know what the temp was set at?
Customer was set at 165 with a 10 degree differential, but his pump was undersized and delta t was likely 50-60 degrees, about 40 more than he could stand
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Hey Scott, so the lower the delta T the better?
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If your return water, with all heat extraction taking place needs to be over 140. Most all boilers whether gas, coal, oil, you name it are designed for a delta t around 20 degrees. The system design is the dealers part to get right. Properly sizing the pump and line combo for the job at hand, its why I frown on doing a one size fits all pump on a stove.
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when its still half way warm 170 to help reduce boiling, 185 when it gets cold, I have baseboards and need high temps to get hear, even tried 190 when it real cold last winter.
Reduce boiling??!
It does a fair amount of steaming with audiable bubbles when it burns trying to get to 185 when its 50F outside.
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Hmm.... Interesting.
Do u ever add water to your stove
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If your return water, with all heat extraction taking place needs to be over 140. Most all boilers whether gas, coal, oil, you name it are designed for a delta t around 20 degrees. The system design is the dealers part to get right. Properly sizing the pump and line combo for the job at hand, its why I frown on doing a one size fits all pump on a stove.
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Thanks a lot Scott, makes sense
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Hmm.... Interesting.
Do u ever add water to your stove
Not much since I found the leak in the house, 1-5gal a year, don't have an exact amount.
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Hmm.... Interesting.
Do u ever add water to your stove
Not much since I found the leak in the house, 1-5gal a year, don't have an exact amount.
Yea... That's about normal from what I've seen
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If you look at the cold water to hot water ratio returning to the stove the cold returning water is tiny compared to the stove water bladder. My stove holds 228 gallons of water at 150-160 degrees and you're telling me a very few gallons of cold water returning will cause damage? I would say what rots a stove is burning wet/green wood at 150-160 degress since moisture mixed with ash long enough will create a strong acid that will slowly pit a stove out from the inside out. So my conclusion is I ain't buying the scheme of theories about stove temps and return temps. If and when mine leaks I will proudly post a thread on here and be truthful about it. Yes, I will be the dumbass and try it. :bash:
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It's not a theory or opinion...
Your right, in part, but the part your missing is the science, where if the firebox wall itself is cooled to 136 degrees, moisture from the wood can then gather on the walls instead of going out the stack, simply watch your stove on your first fire of the season, she'll sweet like a pig til the water gets up above 140, then it's not possible for water to stick to the steel, but goes out the stack.
The cold water coming back into a larger volume does help it some, but does not fix it. If your return is focused on one spot on the fire box, it allows that spot on the firebox wall to be cool, hence moisture will gather there. The NC I was speaking of, the customer burned quality wood, that was confirmed by his dealer "a friend of mine" but no wood is moisture free
So, as I said, you are right in part that green wood is harder due to the water getting into the Ash, but if the firebox walls were hotter, the moisture couldn't gather and out the stack it would go
If you think that's the reason I think you'd be a fan of maintaining as clean of a firebox as possible
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I've never seen mine sweat before when starting it up.
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I don't know much but I do know that if the warranty or operators manual tells me to do something and I don't follow the instructions, I don't expect the warranty to be honored, what Scott is saying has been found to be true, you can make your own mind up but the choices are, run it the way it is designed to be run and have a warranty or believe you know better than the manufacturers reps and void your warranty while thinking that you are saving wood.
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I don't know much but I do know that if the warranty or operators manual tells me to do something and I don't follow the instructions, I don't expect the warranty to be honored, what Scott is saying has been found to be true, you can make your own mind up but the choices are, run it the way it is designed to be run and have a warranty or believe you know better than the manufacturers reps and void your warranty while thinking that you are saving wood.
Slim, do you realize tho how little most of these manufacturers know about hydronic heating?! Most of them are guys who simply say, well we can weld, let's build stoves. Now for the most part it's okay, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty I see manufactures telling people all the time, oh 150 is fine.. They have no clue, willieg has even posted govt links about the dangers of running your boiler to cold
Victor, I have started many many brands of stoves for customers on installations, I've not seen one yet that didn't sweat on start up, hot fire inside a cold water jacket, it's gonna sweat the walls.... As matter of fact most customers think they have a leak cause its literally pouring down the walls
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This is exactly why I work directly for our manufacturer as a trouble shooting rep, I can see what happens in the field and report my findings back to the factory, the boilers can all run really nice in the lab but it's what happens in real life out in the field that we all need to be concerned with and when the manufacturer has a rep in the field that has experience and they can trust, well lets just say that corrections / improvements can be made quickly, my suggestion to all of the manufacturers is pay attention to your dealer feedback and don't bury your head in the sand as some have done in the past costing the company thier reputation.
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QUOTE FROM SCOTT77:
Slim, do you realize tho how little most of these manufacturers know about hydronic heating?! Most of them are guys who simply say, well we can weld, let's build stoves. Now for the most part it's okay, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty I see manufactures telling people all the time, oh 150 is fine.. They have no clue, willieg has even posted govt links about the dangers of running your boiler to co
This is why Im Buying from Scott...sure I could save buck by going directly to the manufacture but I want to be able to call someone that has experiance installing and operating these things when I have a problem. Chuck
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Wise move, buy local from a guy that has knowledge behind him and not just a sales guy.
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Thanks for the kind words chilly
Yep, slim, I know you know what a mess things can be
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Would have to agree with Scott on the sweating issue. When I fired mine
up for the first time I thought it had a huge leak with all the sweat. The pad was soaked
but soon realized that it wasn't leaking when it got up to temp. I run mine at 198 and
adjust the variable depending on the season to keep it going. The hotter you run it
the cleaner it will stay an less chance of condamnation I would think. Wood is cheap
compared to your investment!
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Would have to agree with Scott on the sweating issue. When I fired mine
up for the first time I thought it had a huge leak with all the sweat. The pad was soaked
but soon realized that it wasn't leaking when it got up to temp. I run mine at 198 and
adjust the variable depending on the season to keep it going. The hotter you run it
the cleaner it will stay an less chance of condamnation I would think. Wood is cheap
compared to your investment!
Yes especially when we don't know how much longer well be able to purchase these units, best to take care of the one you have now
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Stove is 60ft from house and pump on medium and stove at 150-165. Return temps during full load is 15 degrees.
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If u ran 155 - 165 and ur delta t was always 15 you'd be fine... Your firebox will be dirtier, but u shouldn't have no condensation issues... That's providing ur delta t stays 15, which is a good delta t
But it doesn't matter if your stove is 60ft away or 600, delta t is still 15