Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Central Boiler => Topic started by: Handyman2012 on December 08, 2012, 11:20:00 AM
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My son and I installed the CB3200 last September (2011) Made it through first heating season just fine. Of late my son noticed that he had to top off the water every 10 days or so using about 10 gallons of water. I suggested that he clean the firebox out and check for leaks in the seams. Well he did. Every welded seam in the firebox is leaking. Not just a little but running constantly.
He contacted Central Boiler. He was told that he would have to SHIP the boiler BACK to CB and pay 4800$ to have it repaired!!!!!! If one reads the manual, the warranty is 10 years on the tank. Has anyone else had a problem like this? My son has had to switch his heating back to NG (Thank Heavens he did not have it removed) and is seriously considering legal action. He has over $30,000 invested and has only seen one season.
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What a distressing turn. I hate to heat of the problems. It is a large investment initially and now this. He should pursue every avenue for satisfaction. The warranty should cover this in my mind. Central Boiler should be anxious to accommodate whatever is needed. One season? Why would they attempt to not cover their product? It is the beginning of the end if not. Please keep us posted.
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Central Boiler is the biggest maker of outdoor boilers. I've been considering one for a bit. There is a dealer about 10 miles down the road from me.
After reading this post, I looked at the Central Boiler website. Most companies that build boilers brag about their great welds. I saw none of this in their literature. They only slammed stainless steel, no doubt to discourage purchasers of their close competitor, Heatmor. Then I browsed the web a bit. It looks like Central Boiler has a big problem with welds. I saw a lot of complaints of leaks. I wonder if their factory is automated with robot welders or whether the welding is done by hand.
Since they are the biggest in the business, it would be expected that there would be some more complaints about their product, but there seems to be a disproportionate amount. I also know a guy who bought one of their units and had bad welds.
These complaints are bad advertising for potential customers like me. These things are expensive and labor intensive to install, I'm thinking most potential buyers will check out websites like this one prior to making a purchase. I hope Central Boiler has a change in position and will pay for some welding on site. Good luck!
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One of the reasons I purchased my Portage and Main recently was the double welded seams for just this reason.
However, when I filled my new boiler for the first time, there was a leak in a weld on the exhaust. I didn't catch that ALL welds are not double welded, oh well. Not a big leak, and not a big deal, but the boiler was brand new. I contacted P&M. I received a one page warranty form, and a request for pics of the leak. I had a certified welder come out and fix the spot and P&M is sending me a check to reimburse me for his labor. No issues, no arguing with P&M. Pretty good warranty in my opinion.
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I have a 2008 CB E-2300. This past Feb. I found my first leak. At the end of May when I was shutting it down I discovered another leak. Neither one was hard to fix for me. Another guy I know has the same boiler and had to replace a huge section of the right side wall, same model and year as mine, and leaked out the same time as my first leak. A relative of mine had a CB that he decided to get rid of the same year I installed mine, older style non-gasser. We had already ordered and paid for our unit before we talked with him. But he had a leak in his at 6 years old and he was not happy with CB's warranty. They wanted him to pay for shipping also.
I've also had a lot of trouble with my primary air channel and ended up replacing with my own design and a welders help. I noticed another post by someone with a 1 year old 3200 and their air channel was falling apart as well. I'm not too happy with CB.
If I were to buy another unit, I think it would be a P&M. I'm actually really interested in the P&M chip burner. A pretty hefty price tag though at $30k
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Did they give any reason for not covering it?
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My son and I installed the CB3200 last September (2011) Made it through first heating season just fine. Of late my son noticed that he had to top off the water every 10 days or so using about 10 gallons of water. I suggested that he clean the firebox out and check for leaks in the seams. Well he did. Every welded seam in the firebox is leaking. Not just a little but running constantly.
He contacted Central Boiler. He was told that he would have to SHIP the boiler BACK to CB and pay 4800$ to have it repaired!!!!!! If one reads the manual, the warranty is 10 years on the tank. Has anyone else had a problem like this? My son has had to switch his heating back to NG (Thank Heavens he did not have it removed) and is seriously considering legal action. He has over $30,000 invested and has only seen one season.
Handyman
Any updates on your issue from Central Boiler. If they dont cover this totally thats not right. Makes me glad that I went with central boiler for my stove if they cant make it right for you. My gosh its only a year old. Seriously they told you $4800 They should come to your house for free and unhook you bought their most expensive stove they sell. I just cant believe that :bash: :bash: :bash: We should take up a collection for your lawyer.
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A collection for Jack and anyone who bought the E-2300 as well. Myself and 2 others that I know of in my small area are falling apart. Ridiculous #'s of repairs already and mine is only a 2008.
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A collection for Jack and anyone who bought the E-2300 as well. Myself and 2 others that I know of in my small area are falling apart. Ridiculous #'s of repairs already and mine is only a 2008.
No collection for me yet Im still good with my 1450 Knock on wood.
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Crap. I hate hearing about warranty issues with CB my unit is a year old no issues yet, but I would flip if I had to turn my oil on after all the time and money I got into this thing. Any updates on this?
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Like johnb, I too would flip if after a few years my OWB sprung a leak. With the money we dish out, you'd think it would be pretty much bullet proof. Maybe at years end when I perform the year end cleaning for summer storage, I'll be a bit more anal about getting the corners cleared of caked on creosote regardless of how difficult it is to remove. And, I'll be checking the ph and nitrites every year. I cannot afford to install a new OWB every few years. Paranoid? Dang right! It's too much money NOT to pay attention to details.
Roger
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I think the best warranty with any brand OWF is "our own maintenance and care" to avoid a problem in the first place. Most all of these warranties are not bumper to bumper, but a "limited manufacture defect warranty". Probably in most cases meaning a leaking or cracked weld. Which I would think would show itself early during the first season of use as the metal expands and contracts. After that, most problems will probably arise due to lack of proper maintenance or bad burning practices. I too feel it is important to keep the creosote scraped off the firebox walls, corners and joints, not allowing it to build up over periods of time trapping moister and excellerating corossion problems. Over the 10 plus years of burning my standard and gasser CB's I've never had or noticed any corossion problems and I would like to think it is because of my time and attention spent to cleaning and proper burning. I've looked at many OWF brands warranties and the "small print" all reads pretty similiar. Stating they are not responsible for damage caused by owners improper operation/maintenance/water treatment care, etc. Many "require" that the owner send a water sample from their OWF in to the manufacture every 6 months or warranty is void. Electrical components, pumps, etc. fall back on those manufacture warranties. So again my feeling is it is back on us as owners to protect our own investments.
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Boilerman, what would be some bad burning practices? I`m good on the cleaning and maint. part. Dont need any problems if I can help.
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Boilerman - Great write up. I find as the temps get colder, my creosote build up is less. This warm weather the creosote collect especially in the primary air holes - that's the main reason for the weekly probing. There are some areas where trying to remove the creosote with the metal hoe CB provides is impossible to reach. One area that comes to mind it the area where the by-pass door is located - it's angled away from the fire box door making it impossible to reach with the hoe.
I wonder if it would provide any protection if I sprayed some high temp paint on all corners in the firebox? In my simple mind, it would help keep the moisture collected in the creosote from direct contact with the welds. Roger
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I don't have a CB but the owner of the OWB company I bought from said cleaning the fire box and
back box in my case then spraying with high temp paint yearly would be a good practice.
He doesn't follow that procedure on his own stove but said it may increase longevity.
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I don't have a CB but the owner of the OWB company I bought from said cleaning the fire box and
back box in my case then spraying with high temp paint yearly would be a good practice.
He doesn't follow that procedure on his own stove but said it may increase longevity.
fryedaddy - Interesting. Thanks for the info. Roger
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Boilerman, what would be some bad burning practices? I`m good on the cleaning and maint. part. Dont need any problems if I can help.
Pit Crew
as far as some tips I dont know about the regular classics because they burn different than a e-classic (which you have) but alot of e-classic users from earlier posts that I have read they are keeping the water temps down and run times down when its fairly warm during the day and cool at night In my opinion the longer it runs the more it has a chance to get into High burn in the reaction chamber the less cresote buildup your going to have. so when my stove kicks on it runs with a 10-15 degree diffential and shuts off at between 193-195 maybe IM thinking wrong but the hotter its ran the cleaner the inside will stay. What do you think about my thinking??? Boilerman and Roger
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Boilerman, what would be some bad burning practices? I`m good on the cleaning and maint. part. Dont need any problems if I can help.
Pit Crew
as far as some tips I dont know about the regular classics because they burn different than a e-classic (which you have) but alot of e-classic users from earlier posts that I have read they are keeping the water temps down and run times down when its fairly warm during the day and cool at night In my opinion the longer it runs the more it has a chance to get into High burn in the reaction chamber the less cresote buildup your going to have. so when my stove kicks on it runs with a 10-15 degree diffential and shuts off at between 193-195 maybe IM thinking wrong but the hotter its ran the cleaner the inside will stay. What do you think about my thinking??? Boilerman and Roger
If people who own e-classics are letting their temps operate at 150 degrees, they're asking for trouble due to condensation building up in the fire box and mixing with the creosote. The creosote then becomes very acidic and will shorten the life of the OWB. Central Boiler set my e-classic 1400 up with a thermostatic valve that when it detects that water is approaching 150, it sends the water back to the OWB to be warmed to the level above 150. This is designed to protect the OWB from the problems I mentioned above.
My OWB high point is set to 185 and low point at 177. The pulse is set to 8 minutes for 50 seconds. This setting seems to work the best for me. Does this help? Roger
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Older E2300s are set at 5 degree differential and are not changable. I'm running 180 to 185 range right now. Good all around I think. I max it out at the high 195 when I start my greenhouses and need all the heat I can get. The more falling room I have the better off I am.
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Boilerman, what would be some bad burning practices? I`m good on the cleaning and maint. part. Dont need any problems if I can help.
Pit Crew, Here are my thoughts and experiences: Bad burning practices in my mind include burning garbage and trash . These are heating appliances, not incinerators. You ever have a burn barrel? How long do they last? 1 or 2 years is what I've found. It's not the heat the eats them up, but the acid from the burning garbage. I believe it does the same thing to an OWF. I've burned nothing but natural wood in my units, consistant with my cleaning/maintenence practices and have never had a corrosion issue. I also think it is important to keep your water temps up. There's a reason factory set points on most all brand furnaces is in the 180-190 degree range. I've found it keeps the firebox drier with less creosote build up in both a traditional and a gasser model, which should be better for the metals and less condensation to activate the acidity of the ash.
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Boilerman, what would be some bad burning practices? I`m good on the cleaning and maint. part. Dont need any problems if I can help.
Pit Crew
as far as some tips I dont know about the regular classics because they burn different than a e-classic (which you have) but alot of e-classic users from earlier posts that I have read they are keeping the water temps down and run times down when its fairly warm during the day and cool at night In my opinion the longer it runs the more it has a chance to get into High burn in the reaction chamber the less cresote buildup your going to have. so when my stove kicks on it runs with a 10-15 degree diffential and shuts off at between 193-195 maybe IM thinking wrong but the hotter its ran the cleaner the inside will stay. What do you think about my thinking??? Boilerman and Roger
Jack, I think you are dead on with your theory and experience. I have found the same results. It doesn't seem to take any more wood to hold those higher temps either. I have my set point at 190, it frequently overshoots by 4-6 degrees, so runs up to 195 or so anyway. If I set at 195 it high limits out on the overshoot, if it hits 200.
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As a owner of a 2011 E3200 this post has me worried. I have had many problem but no leaks yet. I did have to replace the primary air inlet tube because of rust. It just fell apart when I cleaned it last spring 2012. With the new springs on the covers I hope this one lasts longer. I keep my set point at 192 - 195. I am now going to do another water test. Just for peace of mind.
This year I have had solenoid problems from the controller. I have found it burns hotter if I unhook the secondary high solenoid. It forces more air into the primary burn chamber by only using the low secondary solenoid. Otherwise it just pushes all the air out the two secondary tubes and the E3200 burns cold and smokes allot. The E3200 has change allot from 2011 to 2012. The primary air channels look much bigger. Less restrictive and have added air holes. I feel the 2011 E3200 does have a few design flaws. Controller programming problems and primary air flow issues.
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Pictures of the primary chamber for the 2011 E3200 and a 2012 E3200 attached.
[attachment deleted by admin for space issues]
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Are these leaking problems just in the "E" boilers? I have a Classic and it has plenty of creosote on the interior. It seems to bubble up and fall into the fire and is burned. How do you get the black shiney coating off?? I scraped as best I could at the spring shutdown. Is there any way to keep it off the interior??
5036 CB
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loneryder - I've not heard many bad things about the Classic models. But I do know someone (distant relative of mine) that had a Classic, not sure what model. At 6 years old his had a leak. After trying to deal with CB to get it fixed he decided to just get rid of it. His leak was on the outside of the water jacket rather than in the firebox.