Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: jborden3 on December 09, 2012, 08:59:21 PM
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I have spent the last six months looking at buying a new owb i have two guys close to me that have them one has a central boiler and the other has a taylor 450 i have looked a quite a few others and i think i may get the taylor 750 dose any one have any info or advice for me before i go spend 10 k thanks
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Make sure you do lots of research and buy a reputable brand with good service dept. Buy the best you can afford and what will work best in your situation. Lots of good info and people here with really good insight. If you have time to read all the brands, it is like having a research lab at your fingertips.
Good luck with your decision and welcome to our little world.
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0k i have seen a lot of people on hear talking about the hoss owb can any of you give me any feedback on the hoss SF400 it sounds like a good boiler but again it is my first one so what do i know i have been looking at the taylor 750 also but have not been able to find out why the states around me have them for 7000$ and they are 8000$ here in my state.
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jborden3,
I have the hoss 400 sf and love it. This is my first season with it and it performs above my expectations. I am heating 2900 square feet and my dhw with a 20 plate heat exchanger. The firebox is large and the door is nearly the same size as the firebox. This makes loading easy and with the weather we are having here in se ohio i am experiencing 24 hr burns with wood that is fairly wet. I bought a stove that they rate for 8000 sq ft because i am planning on adding a large pole building in the future. Having said that, the stove does not see alot of load for the large volume of water it holds. Jerry, the manager at their location was very helpful and straightforward. If i had it to do all over again i would buy another hoss. The construction is robust and it is grosely over built. It requires a solid foundation with a dry weight of 3500 lbs and filled with water 6820lbs. I feel that material thickness and proper water chemistry will make it last as long or longer than the competition. Ash removal has not been excessive and it is simple. All things considered i would say that the door is its biggest selling point. If you are located with in a reasonable driving distance i would invite you to see it operate.
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Where are you located?
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Burnrite out of Mt Pleasent MI. I looked at many also and glad I bought what I did.
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I'm in the same boat. I want to buy the best, I just don't know what it is. Lots of brands look good but the proof is in the use. I need advise like like jborden3. I'm building a 3k ranch and hope to finish the basement someday.I live in GA and I want it to heat water also. The Woodmaster has a lifetime warranty, central boiler seems to have been around the longest, shaver seems to have been misleading consumers a little. I'm building a new house and I'm ready for HVAC and I want to install the heat exchangers with it. Thanks for your input.
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The Woodmaster has a lifetime warranty, central boiler seems to have been around the longest, shaver seems to have been misleading consumers a little.
Who's really the oldest? This is from Central Boiler's Website:
Central Boiler is the leading manufacturer of outdoor furnaces in Northern America. Founded in 1984 and based in Greenbush, Minnesota where the winter temperatures can drop to 59 degrees below zero, we know the value of safe, efficient heat.
This is from Heatmor's website:
In 1984, Gerry Reed, President of HEATMOR™, made a commitment to build the best performing and longest lasting outdoor furnace on the market.
In 1990, he began constructing HEATMOR™ furnaces with heavy gauge 409 stainless steel,...
They are both made in Northern Minnesota and both seem to put out a good product. Personally, I'd avoid one made in the South. I just would think one made in a place that gets close to -60 degrees F would have to work better. Woodmaster is also made in cold Minnesota. This is from their website:
WoodMaster furnaces are manufactured and distributed by Northwest Manufacturing of Red Lake Falls, Minnesota. Since 1989,...
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Burnrite out of Mt Pleasent MI. I looked at many also and glad I bought what I did.
Must be your representative/salesman was better than the one in my area, He helped me make my choice to stay away from them.
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Personally I would look for a company that manufactures their product closer to you.
If there are problems they can be remedy the situation instead of shipping it back across the country.
Depending on the style you are looking for Gasser or OWB would also limit your decision.
I was familiar with the older style OWB's. I liked the fact that I can add green or seasoned wood
if I would like.
I also personally knew the owner and many of the people who bought the same brand with 20-25 years of use
and several still going.
I believe carbon steel is the route to go as long as you use the proper treatment.
This is just my $.02 and everyone has there own opinion as well.
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I researched the crap out of them and it came down to central boiler and hardy the central Boiler dealer wouldn't call back so I went with the hardy which are common here. My wife was unsure about it cause of the money but now that we have it we both wish we would have done it sooner. Saves more than a third on electric bill through the winter and the hot water is awesome. I know people say hardy are wood hogs but I am heating a 1600 square foot ranch with a full basement and getting 24+ hour burn times with pine. Last spring I filled it up and I refilled it four days later. This is all just my opinion and I have 9600 dollars completely installed. But I believe you will be happy you done it.
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I'm not scared of anyone's 2 cents. I just don't want to buy a problem and be out 10k. thanks for everyone's input.
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I'm not scared of anyone's 2 cents. I just don't want to buy a problem and be out 10k. thanks for everyone's input.
Dont blame ya on that..10 k is a lot of loot.. Like anything else..Id probably stick to the big known brands.. Just like buying that new tv..Big name all that way
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Ok for 6 long months i have looked at and talked to people with all brands of owf yesterday i ordered a tennessee outdoor wood furnace hoss 400 jerry has been a great person to work with i am sure he is tired of me calling him but every time i have contacted him he has answered my questions and been more than happy to help me. i have been in the customer service for 25 years and good service goes a long way IMO. i am in kentucky so they are about 3 hours from me if i need anything from them it should be easy to get. the farm to the right of me has a central and the one on my left has a taylor and i have seen both of them in service for the last 12 years the taylor seams to use less wood than the central but again this could be due to a lot of things guess i will put a new brand in the middle and we can compare all three. i am in kentucky as someone above ask where i am. i am running 1 inch pex to the house ordered from pinnical has anyone had any experience with there insulated pex? 230 feet from house to owb and 30 feet to shop.
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I just got my Hoss 400 HE on line 3 days ago , so far so good ,still got a lot more work to do , I also looked at a lot of units and did a lot of research , but found it hard to get a look at a working one , I think one the things sold me on Hoss was the relationship , Jerry and Terry both welcomed me into the shop , answered my questions and I've been on the phone last 2 days with Jerry asking questions , hes good about calling back , responding to emails and putting up with me in general , Ive heard both sides of the arguments about 1/2 steel not being as efficient as others , but I looked at it like I now buy tools , I'm looking for longevity , performance and durability , yes I can buy a craftsman cordless drill for 29.00 dollars but id rather pay a little more for that dewalt or porter cable and have something a little more rugged , at the end of the day comparing apples to apples and comparing the specs side by side to other brands it was the empty weight of this thing that told me it was built to last
what part of Kentucky , I'm about 25 miles south of Clarksville and Ft Campbell ,
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When I found the 400 HE I quit looking.
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There are lots of things to consider. These are just a couple.... How much wood you have to feed the furnace, typically a furnace with an open heat exchanger with a single shot will consume alot more wood to reach and maintain the operating temperature (you don't want to be a wood slave). The other thing to consider is not so much the thickness of the metal (as that is not what generally fails, do not recall ever seeing a peice of 1/4 inch plate steel with a hole rusted through it) WELDS are what fail. I bought the Portage and Main Furnace they double weld all critical joints. They also do not mix types of metal example stainless steel with cold rolled plate, this appears to never work as different metals expand and contract at different rates resulting in weld failures. They have been in biz since 1973. I would recommend giving them a real close look. Happy reading!
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I did the exact same thing, spent 6 months or so researching and talking to MFG's who by the way all "sell the best" everyone I spoke is said the exact same thing "our's is the best" After weeding through the BS and narrowing it down to a few I bought the Heat Master 5000e 3 months ago and so far it's been great! Well build, nice additional burn chamber, easy to clean ash pan with shake grates, burns very little wood. I will tell you my head was spinning with all the opinions of all these dealers and MFG's I finally bit the bullet and think it was a great choice.
Good luck with the search and purchase, I am now going 3 months without paying for any home heating , hot water or swimming pool heating propane!
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Forums can be good, forums can be bad, sadly enough most the info you see on them isn't near correct at best. You see folks bragging up there purchases when they've only ran them a few days or simply watched there furnace installation and are suddenly experts. Finding a dealer who does this thing for a living is a key point, people who do this on the side or hire out the labor will never be able to answer your questions with any degree of certainty. be careful and be extremely Leary of the "good deal"
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Hey scott why can't someone who had there owb installed answer questions with certainty? Not trying to start anything but the way I see it dealers sell there product and push it the same as some individual would. Mabye I miss understood your post. I guess I don't see why we can't answer questions? I have learned alot since my install try ti learn as much as I can from here.
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Wow, that's a pretty strong statement Scott , I come to the forums to get opinions and ideas , some better than others , I've seen the "Experts" on this site , you included , have different opinions on how something is done, I respect all of their opinions , that being said I'm probably as green as they come but I can share my experiences ( as limited as they are ) and yes my opinions with others . when the day comes that I'm an expert and can no longer learn from others is the day I need to use that OWB for its alternate use and save the crematorium fees , I'm 50 years old and still learning and will continue to do so until its time to go , life is way to short to sweat the small stuff
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I don't think Scott is telling anyone they can't post their thoughts or share experiences on a forum, but to beware, because everything you read on the internet just may not always be true, a proven fact or nothing more than an opinion. There are posters that don't even have more than 1 season or even less experience on their new start up companies furnace, proclaiming that is absolutely the "greatest ever" and only cost them a few thousand dollars. I've been an OWF furnace owner now into my 11th season. I've seen many companies come and go in less than 5 years, when the problems start and they start getting "hits" on their fantastic great warranties. Nothing is proven until after years of customer use. Some companies claim they have been in business for 20-30 years, but no one has ever heard or them or seen one until the last 2 years. Also keep in mind, that in less than a year, it is very possible that any furnace sold in the U.S. must meet EPA requirements that will probably put any company out of business all together if they can't produce one and get it EPA certified. Anyway, share stories, ask questions and weigh out the answers and options. I still feel more comfortable with truely proven companies...IMO
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Boiler man is correct in his entire statement, once EPA phase 2 regs go nationwide, the boiler industry will never look the same. Only a select few will remain
What i mean is every situation is different, you may see your isntall and say well that's how it works. The thing is there is unique parts of every install that are often specific to that certain situation. You see folks on here all the time recommending things that are detrimental to a boiler, but you can't correct every or even attempt to try. Often things are really hard to put into words too, like I might know of why a certain problem is occurring based on experience but could never make it make sense to someone Eho isn't involved in this as well.
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Forums can be good, forums can be bad, sadly enough most the info you see on them isn't near correct at best. You see folks bragging up there purchases when they've only ran them a few days or simply watched there furnace installation and are suddenly experts. Finding a dealer who does this thing for a living is a key point, people who do this on the side or hire out the labor will never be able to answer your questions with any degree of certainty. be careful and be extremely Leary of the "good deal"
I both agree (feeling novice myself sometimes) and disagree in that even though many users out here are new to OWBs, many of them are still experienced at burning wood.
walkerdogman - I also agree with you. This site has a wealth of knowledge.
I grew up burning wood. Got away from it, due to the extra work and cheap oil. Started re-implementing wood furnaces in the early/mid 2000's and then jumped into the OWB scene with Central Boilers first gasser model. Big Mistake on one hand and the best thing we ever did on the other. This is the start of my fifth season. I had absolutely NO knowledge of boilers of any kind as all I grew up with was forced-air heating. I had never even soldered a copper fitting. Now I have and proudly I can say I've never had a leak. I asked a few questions of the right people and it's been a learning experience every day. By no means do I consider myself an expert on the subject. I try to think things through and I've gathered a lot of useful ideas and great information from this site. And I've spent a great deal of time offering my experiences to attempt to help others.
People do need to be cautious of the information they choose to implement into their system. Mostly it's common sense when you stop and think about it. Often it is easy to overlook something. Usually it's the little things we miss. So even the simplest of suggestions can make all the difference to someone.
leolends - You are correct IMO also. Salesman are salesman. They will all push their product as "the best".
woodwest - During my 4th season, I had 2 leaky seams in my E-2300. However, another guy I know with the exact same stove had to replace a large section of the right side wall in his firebox do to creosote eating it away at 4 years old and he burns year round. Also, in examining my firebox, I see a lot of pitting both walls and ceiling and the metal is sounding thin when hit. I give it a season or 2 before major problems, if I'm lucky. I stongly urge anyone with a gasser OWB to watch the inside of their firebox closely for deterioration. The walls are almost always wet with creosote and there is no way I can think of to avoid it. It's the nature of the beast. Maybe CB is using better steel now, I hope so.
My $0.02 worth.
Jeff
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Hey scott why can't someone who had there owb installed answer questions with certainty? Not trying to start anything but the way I see it dealers sell there product and push it the same as some individual would. Mabye I miss understood your post. I guess I don't see why we can't answer questions? I have learned alot since my install try ti learn as much as I can from here.
You misunderstood what I meant, I just see folks answering technical questions based on there 3 weeks experience, there answers often reflect they don't understand what's going on. The forum is an excellent place to learn, but you must decipher through a lot of talk and dig to the bottom of it
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Scott makes some good points. I have installed hundreds of furnaces and many things that work well for one home owner will not work at all for another. So many variables go into a install. Its similar to buying a car, not everyone should be driving a 4x4 truck but some have to have them. Not everyone needs a little car which gets 40mpg but some couldn't afford to get to work if they didn't have them. Each job is very different and if the dealer isn't experienced enough to recognize potential problems you may be in for a problem.
The number one thing to look at when you buy a furnace is to have a dealer who knows what he is doing. It can be worth thousands, I know because I have calls all the time from people who are having to pay someone else to come out and fix mistakes. Also buy from a company who will be there if you have a warranty issue. There have been a number of companies who go out of business simply to skip out on warranty work, then next week they are selling under a new name.
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Sorry Scott for mabye getting defensive but like I said I am new to the outdoor wood burner. This will be my first full winter using it. I have learned alot here and hope to continue to do so.
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Sorry Scott for mabye getting defensive but like I said I am new to the outdoor wood burner. This will be my first full winter using it. I have learned alot here and hope to continue to do so.
No problem.... :thumbup:
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i am on my 3rd season with a portage & main ml36 wood burning machine and i dont regret the purchase one bit. they are worth the extra money they are bullet proof. i have never seen a spark come out of my stack with the smoke chamber anything hot goes through the chamber by the time it hits the exit and up the stack its cool.easy maintance .stack can be cleaned from the ground just open the inspection port on the back of the stove once a month push the chimney brush up and down a few times clean out port of creosote put cap back on your done no climbing on the roof. clean out smoke chamber once a month with scraper once a month yuor done. no auger to jam up just use your scraper morning and evening when filling move ashes around and fill with 6 to8 pieces of wood. pretty simple and quick. when they say cut wood consuption by 1/3to 1/2 i can vouch for that. spend the little extra. i am darn glad i did happy burning rick
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True....More areas of the USA are moving to EPA Phase II units being the only type of OWF allowed. There appear to be only a few companies that have successfully ventured into this territory of obtaining approval. Thus why I purchased the Portage and Main Optimizer 250, it has EPA Phase II approval as do all their Optimizer series and again they have been in biz since 1973, I think it is safe to say they will be around for a while yet. These guys are selling lots into the North Eastern part of the USA yet made in Canada! Burns clean, less wood, more efficient. Happy with mine!
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You might also look at Johnson boilers. I put my first boiler in last winter and cant find anything I would change. It had a very large door for loading and two fans to force air into boiler. Very easy to care for and it burns anything with ease. Good Luck JT
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I'm sorry , I'm just not ready to let it go , so what exactly determines a person to be an expert in this field? years and years of experience, industry certifications or the simple fact they are a dealer? , I'm not putting anyone down , as stated I ask questions and get opinions and while I respect all opinions i ask to get different opinions and take that information and use what looks like it will work best for me ,if i happen to disagree with someone I do so politely , I realize its a lot of personal opinions and preferences but again what determines an expert ??
In my field I hold 2 degrees and many, many industry certifications and I still have a lot to learn and learn something everyday , the day one sits himself on a pedestal and professes to know all and see all is someone that needs a good lesson in humility
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Man your off in left field if you think thats remotely how I feel
As far as experts, I'm no expert but do work with furnaces everyday 365/yr. I have no big paperwork saying anything, but based on jobs I've been on with "engineers" they could draw you something on paper and tell you it will work, but when it comes down to getting there hands on it and making it work, well good luck..
Kinda like workers on a job welding, most of them know far more about doing there job correctly than the guy that's supposed to be over them.
As far as dealers, I know of very few that do this for a living, most dabble in it on the Side of another project or as a side job, as with any job, the ones who are the best are the ones that are truly interested in it and are always involved and always learning
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I have spent the last six months looking at buying a new owb i have two guys close to me that have them one has a central boiler and the other has a taylor 450 i have looked a quite a few others and i think i may get the taylor 750 dose any one have any info or advice for me before i go spend 10 k thanks
try (www.nationalstoveworks.com (http://www.nationalstoveworks.com)) sencond genaration ben around for over 38 years good product and stand behind there work....20 year warranty not prorated....he makes out door or indoor boilers look at all the products and see wich brand of boiler will work best and last you a long time...like you said there are many out there just throwing another option to you is all.......he has a dealer in mi. also made here in ny Tim the owner is top notch took me threw the factory when i was down there picking up my boiler....local guy in waddington just bought an indoor boiler last week that makes 10 in our town alone....
kelly
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Yea I could give to figs for a hand full of certifications. I recommend a dealer and furnace company with a proven record of successful completed jobs with happy customers. Most issues I have seen with both dealers and furnaces brands are fairly obvious if you know what to look for. Its the folks that have never been around an outdoor furnace that will get burned. Find a dealer who has a good reputation in the area and you will be okay.
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absolutely love my Hoss 400, best $ i spent
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well i bought a hoss 400 have had it in for 4 weeks now and i am verry happy with it the guys down there have been great to talk to and work with i am heating a 3600 square foot house and a 1200 square foot shop as well as hot water in both places i am loading my stove once a day right now but our temptures are pretty mild so i would expect to burn more wood when we get some cold weather i will post more as time goes on but as of know i am more than happy with it and i cant say enough for there customer service.