Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Equipment => Topic started by: Smithers on February 25, 2013, 07:31:36 AM
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Good morning, all.
As I read on here, it seems like the preferred (or at least one of them) is AMSoil. I have a dealer near me, but some of their own literature confuses me a little. My saw calls for 50:1, but AMSoil seems to be formulated for 100:1. I would normally just mix it double strength (50:1), but other things I've read here seem to indicate that some of you guys are running at thinner ratios. Where are you running your gas:oil mixtures? Can you fill me in a little on how you arrived there? Anything markedly better than AMSoil out there?
Thanks
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I have 3 Stihls and they call for 50:1 with their oil and 25:1 with other products. I have always had a tendency to put the lower ratio, might burn a little smoky but have never burned one up yet and have cut a decent amount of lumber with 2 of them. I would rather over lubricate than run it with not enough oil, those things are expensive, oil is much cheaper.
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I ran Stihl regular oil in my 2 Stihl saws (028AV Wood Boss & 029 Super) for about 15 years, switched to the Stihl synthetic HP Ultra about 5 years ago.
Stihl says 50:1 but I mix at around 45:1, haven't changed a plug in years. I would never run an air-cooled 2-stroke at 100:1, just my opinion.
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Folks more oil is not good..... 100:1 is plenty in all 2 strokes as long as its a quality lubricant like amsoil
More oil in your gas lowers the octane rating in the fuel and makes the engine detonate much faster, it leads to crank bearing failures and most commonly galled pistons.
I have a friend who races 2 stroke air planes and amsoil is his sponsor, he has tested it and has ran it at a ration of over 500:1 before he saw an oil related failure
Never ever double up on oil, it's the worst thing you could possibly do to a 2 stroke
I'd advise anyone to use amsoil at 100:1, and use a minimum octane of 93 fuel. I used to rebuild chainsaws all the time, all had the same problems, number 1 cause of death was to much oil breaking the gas down and making the engine detonate, when that happens, cylinder temps to crazy and it galds
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32/1 4 oz per gallon on all of my high performance two strokes...then tune accordingly. Your engine will appreciate it
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Chainsaws can/need to be rebuilt?!?
;D
My 028 is an early-mid 80s model, my Dad got it new and ran it for about 10 years before I got it, never even had the carb rebuilt.
Air filters, bars and chains yes. Wish I had a gallon of gas for every cord that jewel has cut. ;)
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Those back in the early 80's were the best stihls
The rebuilt chainsaw market is huge, I made a living one spring and summer buying saws on Craigslist and cleaning them up and selling them on eBay, rebuilt a pile of them as well
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Folks more oil is not good..... 100:1 is plenty in all 2 strokes as long as its a quality lubricant like amsoil
More oil in your gas lowers the octane rating in the fuel and makes the engine detonate much faster, it leads to crank bearing failures and most commonly galled pistons.
I have a friend who races 2 stroke air planes and amsoil is his sponsor, he has tested it and has ran it at a ration of over 500:1 before he saw an oil related failure
Never ever double up on oil, it's the worst thing you could possibly do to a 2 stroke
I'd advise anyone to use amsoil at 100:1, and use a minimum octane of 93 fuel. I used to rebuild chainsaws all the time, all had the same problems, number 1 cause of death was to much oil breaking the gas down and making the engine detonate, when that happens, cylinder temps to crazy and it galds
Scott....I am using an old Homelite Super XL with a 20" bar and I have noticed that after about 15-20 min of continuous use, whats left of the fuel mix in the tank is actually boiling. I was thinking that I was mixing too lean. From what I am reading here is sounds like its too rich. Is that correct? I am using 2-cycle oil bought at a parts store and 87 octane gas.
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As far as saws go, I've used whatever 2 cycle oil that was handy at 50:1 for 25 years with no issues what so ever. No sense making things overly complicated.
That being said, there's no oil that smells quite like Klotz coming out of a 2 stroke.
Gregg
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As far as saws go, I've used whatever 2 cycle oil that was handy at 50:1 for 25 years with no issues what so ever. No sense making things overly complicated.
That being said, there's no oil that smells quite like Klotz coming out of a 2 stroke.
Gregg
I agree 100%
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Folks more oil is not good..... 100:1 is plenty in all 2 strokes as long as its a quality lubricant like amsoil
More oil in your gas lowers the octane rating in the fuel and makes the engine detonate much faster, it leads to crank bearing failures and most commonly galled pistons.
I have a friend who races 2 stroke air planes and amsoil is his sponsor, he has tested it and has ran it at a ration of over 500:1 before he saw an oil related failure
Never ever double up on oil, it's the worst thing you could possibly do to a 2 stroke
I'd advise anyone to use amsoil at 100:1, and use a minimum octane of 93 fuel. I used to rebuild chainsaws all the time, all had the same problems, number 1 cause of death was to much oil breaking the gas down and making the engine detonate, when that happens, cylinder temps to crazy and it galds
I would never use 100:1 in my thousand dollar 2188 Jonsered chain saw..Look like your big on the synthetic oils or promote Amsoil ..Yeah I do use synthetic and conventional 2 stoke oils ..But your first statement is just plain wrong..How can you possibly compare a chain saw to a 2 stroke air plane which is totally different..I agree with a higher octane.
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I know that 100:1 sounds scary to most. Especially those that came from the 25:1 two stoke era. Manufacturers use to run 25:1 because the oil was so poor. Modern oils are much better. Most important thing to do is use an oil recommended and designed for what you are using it for. IE don't use outboard two stroke in your chainsaw, it is formulated to a different standard for a motor that doesn't rev to 12k rpm +. No reason for amsoil to recommend 100:1 unless it was designed to lubricate at that ratio. I believe the reason most two strokes are burning down now a days is due to the poor fuel quality. 87 octane loses its octane rating and causes high revving two stokes to detonate or preignite causing them to build heat quickly and melt the exhaust side of the piston off. 93 octane is much better formulation and takes much much longer to lose its octane rating to a point that it causes detonation.
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was a factory mechanic for 2 stroke motocross professionally in the 80's. although not as applicable here but this comment you wouldn't think you would ever hear. " i ran it too rich with oil mix and burned up the motor". this is actually a factual comment. the actual concern is fuel air ratio's for proper combustion. when you have ideal jetting for your motor fuel/air with a specific ratio of oil to gas usually recommended by the manufacturer of the oil and richen that ratio what happens is you actually lean the fuel/air ratio to the motor with too much oil. not as much an issue with saws with external adjustment for jetting. but remember we are tuning the air/fuel ratio when we tune not the oil. we used numerous lubricants throughout the years because of various sponsors for different seasons with great success as long as you didn't deviate too far from recommended dilutions from the manufacturer of the oil.
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had a lemon yellow ford galaxy back in the sixties that used a Gallon of Canadian tire Nugold 10W30 per tank of fuel (one weekend to the gal)...lol
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I've always used the stihl pre-mix bottles 1 gallon at a time with a date on the gas can after a month it goes in something else to get rid of splitter,lawnmower,etc haven't had any issues
this is off the subject a little bit I bring my saws to a guy by me he does the professional chainsaw cutting competitions so he knows the saws inside and out very fortunate to have him but anyway he says get rid of that gas after a month with all the ethanol in gas these days it turns very corrosive it starts eating your gas lines and diaphragms then they start sucking air and won't start right away or run right
He also says running them out of fuel is the worst thing you can because that last few seconds it's running out it's running at higher RPM's and running lean with no oil lubrication best thing to do if your not going to run a while is to dump gas out of tank as best as you can and leave until fresh gas is put in next time you use. Their is a lot EPA things installed on the saws these days that could be removed and make the saw run a lot better and cooler they really have them choked down
and also if your going to buy a new one he says get a pro saw (stihl brand). The MS is light duty mostly for homeowners light use the pro uses a much heavier crank he has replaced many cranks on the MS saws because they are so much lighter a cheaply made.
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My husky manual says 40:1, I use the regular husky 2 cycle oil and mix a gallon at a time, no issues. I don't really buy into the synthetic hype all that much. I do believe that the fuel getting old is something to watch for, I use super premium and keep moving the fuel even if I have to pour the rest of a gallon in the old Buick from time to time.
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I have to agree with that statement too. I own and operate a tree service for over 16 years now. I buy Castrol Snowmobile oil a case at a time. It is just conventional 2 stroke oil that we mix about 40:1. Probably not exactly measured on the job site.
The only engine failure in 16 years was a saw that got a tank of pure gas! Whoops.
At a conservative estimate 5 gallons of premix per week, times 16 years, equals 4,160 GALLONS OF PREMIX! As I've said before, I wish saws had hour meters.
Keep it simple.
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As far as saws go, I've used whatever 2 cycle oil that was handy at 50:1 for 25 years with no issues what so ever. No sense making things overly complicated.
That being said, there's no oil that smells quite like Klotz coming out of a 2 stroke.
Gregg
I have to agree with that statement too. I own and operate a tree service for over 16 years now. I buy Castrol Snowmobile oil a case at a time. It is just conventional 2 stroke oil that we mix about 40:1. Probably not exactly measured on the job site.
The only engine failure in 16 years was a saw that got a tank of pure gas! Whoops.
At a conservative estimate 5 gallons of premix per week, times 16 years, equals 4,160 GALLONS OF PREMIX! As I've said before, I wish saws had hour meters.
Keep it simple.
I would have to agree about klotz..I run it in my snowmobile
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Ran Amsoil 100-1 for years in air cooled motocross bikes and it worked great. There was a study done once that tested oil ratio with its relation to power. For MX motors, it was found that 40:1 performed best siting better ring seal. Not sure if it is pertinent with chain saws however it shows that oil provides other value than just lubricating bearings. We never deviate more than 10% from manufacturers suggested ratio.
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40:1 - 45:1 with full synthetic 2 cycle mix
I don't care what people want to run their mouth about. I use the same formulation for tree service equipment and when an gas line blows and the saw gets really lean the P&C still get enough oil to protect it.
Talk to any professional that ports saws for a living and they will say the same thing.
Protect the investment of a expensive saw and use a little more quality oil.
Also keep in mind that changing the mix ratio also changes the viscosity of the fuel mix and the rate at which it flow through the carb. Saws should be tuned to the fuel it will be using.
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I use Stihl oil but always run 40 to 1 ratio.
I have two Stilhs, 028 and 046.
Bob
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If you absolutely must use more oil than recommended, then definitely spring for 93 octane gas.
I just follow manufacturers recommendations. I use the Stihl synthetic oil and 89 octane gas.
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I agree with the amsoil saber. I have used it for 3 yrs after mobil stopped making racing 2t. I also like opti 2. I honestly don't like using premium anymore. I have had more problems with carbs in my saws using premium. I now do a 50/50 mix of Av fuel and a good mid grade. I thionk the 93 sits in the tanks for a lot longer period of time between refilling could be a possible cause.
jason
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Jack72 could you fill us in a bit more as to what stihl saws are professional grade saws because they all begin with MS now?
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Stihl list their pro saws on their web site.
Most of the time I use non ethanol gas, just need to make sure I remember to get it when I am passing places that stock it. 93 or 91, my ATV likes at least 91.
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Mines a professional :thumbup:
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Not sure what stihl is doing on current model pro saws but my own 044 (about 10 years old now) came with restrictors on the carb adjusting screws. Mine always showed signs of running too lean. It really screamed and the HS adjuster could not be opened any more. This continued right up until the piston scortched on the exhaust side. (Scott will know well what that looks like) Since then I learned how simple they are to rebuild and also how simple it is to REMOVE the plastic limiters on the carb adjusting screws so the mixture can be adjusted properly. I was informed that the limiters were an attempt to meet emission standards and the saws were intentionally sold running lean.
Another thing about Amsoil 100:1. Ever notice how thick it is? Lets say the viscosity was reduced by diluting it with an equal volume of gas, then divide it in two. Now you would have a oil that resembles the viscocity of the 40 or 50 to 1 oils and and could be mixed at those ratios as well.
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Since then I learned how simple they are to rebuild and also how simple it is to REMOVE the plastic limiters on the carb adjusting screws so the mixture can be adjusted properly. I was informed that the limiters were an attempt to meet emission standards and the saws were intentionally sold running lean.
Yes they are to meet emissions. Small four strokes are sold the same way but those can't even be adjusted anymore. We had problems with our water transfer pumps that we handle water for spraying with. Used to just run the choke on a click or two, since then I've bought a set of jet drills, find the one that just fits the jet then drill it out one size larger than that, haven't seized up an engine since.
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You can buy the double d screwdrivers on the web, or Dremel works to slot the screws.
Touch wood I have not had problems yet, but I am at high altitude, less oxygen they run richer?
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Touch wood I have not had problems yet, but I am at high altitude, less oxygen they run richer?
Yup.
Some of these small four strokes we've had aren't even adjustable, only thing adjustable is idle speed. No adjustable jets which is why I drill the high circuit jet.