Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Scott7m on May 09, 2013, 07:15:40 AM
-
I recently had the opportunity to buy a solar power system from one of the stove companies I deal with. They are branching out there dealers into other forms of energy. So I couldn't resist not trying to eliminate the electric company even more, air conditioning ain't cheap!
This came as a kit and is pretty much a DIY project, the only part your supposed to have an electrician do is wire in the breaker. The rest is plug in and bolt down, very simple.
This one I have installed here is a 5kw system. I've been running it for probably 10 days now, it's producing 32kwh on good days and probably averaging around 25kwh so far because we had some really rainy days where it was over cast and only made 9-12kwh on those days.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/77960DE3-972F-4511-8EB0-0954D8CD4807-3957-0000059F77DC1AB6.jpg)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/134CE1AA-C85F-4818-8449-3B8896A87111-3957-0000059F8DC986F1.jpg)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/6FBFE4D2-8025-4C22-8019-5C38BFEDAD66-3957-0000059FA7732047.jpg)
This was the first one we ever installed, had all the panels up in one day, all wiring took just a few hours. I'm fairly confident I could install one of these in 8 hours as they come as a kit with every piece u need, even the glue for the conduit.
-
Looks good Scott. What do you figure the payoff time to be on this system? And how is the attachment to the roof and sealing of the penetrations done?
-
Altrnative Energy, eventually the enemy will run out of bullet money
-
Do you just run screws through the shingles? If so, what happens if a customer's roof starts leaking? Even if it has nothing to do with the solar panel mounts, I would bet they would blame it on that.
-
The payoff can greatly vary... Each individual is looking at an entirely different situation. Here is why, tax credits, some are local, some are state, some are through the power comany.
Lets say you buy a 10kw system and you spend 30,000 putting it in. Federal tax credit is 30%. So out of pocket expense is $21,000. Some states offer as little as $500 bucks off, some states have incentives as high as 35%. Like North Carolina for instance, so lets say now your after your federal and state tax credits ur expense is down to $10,500. In NC and other states they are required to pay you so much per kw system that we out in, so if they all you .50 per kw system, there is another 5k. Sooo, out of pocket expense is now down to $6500.
Now,all situations ain't that glorious, but every co op, every power company is different. Ky for example is $500 from state and my electric company fought with me over putting it in lol mainly because unions are slipping under the table money to legislators to protect union power company jobs
My system in particular, lets say it holds on an average of 750kwh/month. My Elecric rate is 13.5cents a kwh, that's roughly $102 bucks/month. If my state was pro solar, and I installed a 10kw system, I'd be looking at $204\mo
Then there is the whole deal will your power company buy any excess?? Mine won't, but they will trade kwh with me, if one month I make 700 and only need 650, I have a 50kwh credit, this is called net metering
Now, some power companies will pay you, some pay a pretty high rate, and some pay only what they charge.
My system in particular is very simple, it's not big enough to do over 100% of my needs so I don't do net metering, if I add another system, I will then add net metering and the power company is required by law to provide it for u. That way I can receive credit for any extra I make.
I'm using no batteries, it simply feeds back onto the grid though my breaker box, my meter spins backwards throughout the day!
Sooo..... Everyone just needs to check out there local situation, you'll need to look at ur state, and your power company to see how beneficial it is to you. Many times people look at solar as an investment and not so much a turn around, we figured up one time that with our rate and cost the investment of solar was paying me like 8%, find that at the bank
Now, as far as financing, that's the good part. I am hooked up with a furnace company that will do clean energy loans down to as low as 3% I beleive, so some people look at it like this. I got a great loan, the interest is tax deductible, the solar system is paying it's own payment, and I got this cool looking thing on my roof, and I'm helping the environment....
My approach is similar, I say this, if borrowed money for this on a 10 year loan, would after 10 years I rather have this solar system on my roof, or would I rather have nothing, and have simply paid all that money to the power company, no brainer to me
If anyone wants to talk more about it, feel free to contact me or call, solar is pretty neat, and to have a DIY kit is great.
-
Do you just run screws through the shingles? If so, what happens if a customer's roof starts leaking? Even if it has nothing to do with the solar panel mounts, I would bet they would blame it on that.
Yes u do. Under the rail you run a bead of stuff down it putting a gob around each hole, the bolt them squeezes it down and it essentially seals it back, it's not silicone though, not sure what it is but it's supposed to never set up or get hard, pretty neat stuff. I never had any to leak. See no reason it should either. The top of the bolt also has a rubber washer around it.
As far as leaks from people just ranting, well, I guess we could draw up an agreement or let the insurances take care or such battles, I have no worries mine will leak but I understand folks will try to blame someone for everything
-
I also need to add, it doesn't have to go on your roof, yard mounts are available to, it's just really easy on the roof.
-
Thanks for the detailed explanation...don't know if I would ever do it but what you told me has prompted me to see how it works here in Missouri.
-
<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/user/billie_boy7/media/085.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h308/billie_boy7/085.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 085.jpg"/>[/url]
here is mine
-
Willie blows me away lol..
I hope to perhaps do a 3k tracking system or another 5k fixed, not sure yet.
-
Wow very impressive..I do see solar panels more and more..In fact last week I noticed a huge solar panel farm in MA..Very nice Scott and Willie..
-
we had a great incentive from our provincial government... this system cost 100,000 to install but i get paid 80.2 cents per KW hour...last year i produced 22,000 KW hrs it looks as though it will be about 6 or 7 years to pay for it and the contract with the government is for 20 years. i think th ere is another round of them coming out but for less mone being paid but teh dost of putting one up has been coming down to match about the same pay back time.
-
With the incentives that some places have, it's crazy not to get one.
-
Is this govt medicaid? All utilities do is raise the rates so eventually you all will be back to square one. Plus the govt programs your taxes are still paying for it. Either way its a wash.
-
I agree and I hear all the time about my solar causing rate increases, so I had a choice to make, sit on the sidelines and complain like everyone else or jump in and maybe make some money to help cover the increases. we can not keep burning coal forever and although you and I have to pay more, perhaps I can help elave the air a little cleaner for my grand kids
-
What is the typical lifespan of a solar panel?
-
Oh and one more thing Scott. How do you know the output? is there some type of display or computer app?
-
Oh and one more thing Scott. How do you know the output? is there some type of display or computer app?
Yes, I will take some pics of the inverter
It's nice!
-
What is the typical lifespan of a solar panel?
The panels I have and carry are guaranteed to still be producing 85% of there potential after 25 years.
I've done quite a bit of research in the past few years, even more so in the last month, with how there made today they should last 40-50 years, but of course after that long the efficiency on them won't be like they were when new.
-
Is this govt medicaid? All utilities do is raise the rates so eventually you all will be back to square one. Plus the govt programs your taxes are still paying for it. Either way its a wash.
How on earth could you consider it a wash? That makes no sense whatsoever, my utility rate is climbing like a monkey in the jungle whether I have solar or not. So if I can make half of my power myself why in the heck wouldn't I?
Also, if I do a project like this again, I can opt for the batteries, which have improved drastically in the past 5 years, and tell the power company to get there crap out of my yard.
The only thing there doing that's not working for solar, and it's only anti solar, anti stove areas, kinda like mine, they will lower the rate at which they charge the customer, so the kwh that u produce aren't as valuable, but them they will raise the cost they charge you for simply having a meter from them....
Soo, if they go that route, heck with em, ill unplug and produce my own.
I saw an article just last night that over 200 power plants are being forced to close due to more regulations, more regulations, means higher prices.
Same way with stoves, if it's a wash as far as cost, why in the world would people buy them? I know when people show up at my shop with electric bills 7-800$, then return a couple months later with bills around 1-$150, there thrilled.
But, it's like this, if there is free money out there and you don't go after your share, then well, I just donno what to think lol
-
Let me know when you can run your whole house on solar.
-
If I lived in a more supportive state, I'd have it done by next week, no problem.
Since my panels have been online, I've used less than 15kwh of electric lol.. That's less than $2 in 10 days. However the weather is at the point where no ac or heat is needed.
Do you think it's hard to go off grid or that it won't work or what?
-
Its gonna be the ac loads and other appliances that draw that heavy ampwrage is where it gets tough. Im sure its possible tho :thumbup:
-
The dryer is my biggest user right now...
Once I get it working off of the stove it will be much easier
-
Scott, about how much does a system like yours cost? And did you say that your OWB manufacture was selling them?
-
Scott, about how much does a system like yours cost? And did you say that your OWB manufacture was selling them?
It all just depends, kinda something id have to at least talk to you more about to give you a quote, I dd a quote yesterday for a guy and his total after his incentives on a system like mine was around $9435 w/shipping. Every situation is so different though. As far as the company, yea it's a spin off from profab industries, the people who make empyre.
-
Here are some pics of the inverter/display. I am not an electrician, don't make fun of my wiring haha
This pic was taken at 9:45 a.m, it's a clear morning so already it's doing well.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/27B99D41-9F7E-4637-9A4B-46C65EB63FC7-6387-00000A088B961FC7.jpg)
This pic shows the inverter as well as the hookup, it's as simple as installing a dryer cord, the inverter does all or the work in regards to back feeding onto the grid during outages etc. It has to sense power on both sides, grid side, and solar side before it will produce power back to the grid.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/CED169DD-ECCF-4914-9F96-A645DF7C2BBE-6387-00000A0894A7A942.jpg)
This pic shows where the wires come through my ceiling into the conduit, all part of the kit.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/EFA90A0F-8F7F-48C7-A57D-08E87A0D7DAA-6387-00000A08849561D7.jpg)
This pic is in my attic, you can see the only 2 wires from the solar system, the red and the black is all that's needed. Once again, I'm no electrician haha
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/E2510464-4CC0-4DAE-BAC3-6167F1789CCD-6387-00000A087525DE11.jpg)
If today stays clear it could be a record day for my solar, but I feel it's gonna cloud up later.
More info to come as I compile averages n such to share
-
Is the display the watt hours for the day or the current wattage that the panels are putting out?
-
That shot there was what it was currently producing. It does though keep track of daily wh/kwh n such.
I jinxed myself by thinking it was gonna stay clear haha, clouded up, but still producing about 1800-2400 watts under a nice cloud cover.
Yesterday it was hit and miss cloud cover and ended up producing around 27kwh.
-
Caught a break in the cloud cover just now and took a pic of the output. 5100w, 258.7v, 60.00hz, 19.71A
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/7613711B-EC67-432B-9B4C-7CE9EC7FA86B-6489-00000A1636532AE4.jpg)
-
Ok, just did a little compiling of data.
13 days online so far.
6 of those days were rainy/overcast the majority of those days
I'm averaging 21.538kwh per day, not bad for weather being horrible on nearly half, but this is typical ky spring weather
If I held at this rate I would produce 646.15kwh/mo. I'm sure that as summer gets closer the average will trend upward by quite a bit.
-
I made 33kwh today as it was mostly sunny today.
-
I'm not sure how current this info this is but this site has a lot for various incentives and credits available for the States.
http://www.cleanenergyauthority.com/ (http://www.cleanenergyauthority.com/)
-
So how is the system running Scott? any updates??
-
my 10 KW system (dual trackers) had a pretty good month this May. Even with a few cloudy and rainy days it made its way to 2,610 KWH
-
So how is the system running Scott? any updates??
Running good buddy. Wound up about 800kwh for the 30 day period. Saved me around $110 bucks.
This month should be even better.
-
Solar update:
Well, after all this the first actual electric bill I got was this past month that my net metering was working properly, had a faulty meter from the power company
Comparison last 7-20 through 8-20 billing cycle
2012 - avg temp 75.1 - cycle days 31 - total bill $220.24
2013 - avg temp 72.9 - cycle days 31 - total bill $52.19
Boo yahhhh!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Wait til I fire this wood boiler up in the fall :)
-
Solar update:
Well, after all this the first actual electric bill I got was this past month that my net metering was working properly, had a faulty meter from the power company
Comparison last 7-20 through 8-20 billing cycle
2012 - avg temp 75.1 - cycle days 31 - total bill $220.24
2013 - avg temp 72.9 - cycle days 31 - total bill $52.19
Boo yahhhh!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Wait til I fire this wood boiler up in the fall :)
Wow impressive..Our local laundry mat just went solar like you..Only gonna use 10% power from the grid..
-
Love it ! Keep us updated :thumbup:
Only thought what about hail ? Insurance cover any weather issues that could arise.
Thanks
-
It's supposed to withstand like 1.5" diameter hail. But, that's what homeowners insurance is for!
They are really tough!
-
Another update for you..
Last August my electric bill was around $225
This years August bill was $82.70
I'm really looking forward to Septembers bill, we did a lot of cooling early in the month but its been mild since, and I've been running the wood stove for hot water, hoping to see the next few bills showing a credit and not a charge!!!!!
Can't wait
-
Would like some info on who to contact for more information. I live in ohio, who would I call? Do I also call my electric company ? They are located in North Carolina I think, I have also heard of people waiting for checks from their county's that offered an incentive because they ran out of money. I feel like if I considered it I would for sure incorporate batteries for nights and if the grid collapsed.
-
How is she running in the winter scott? Got any $0 bills yet? If so that must be an awsome feeling.
-
How is she running in the winter scott? Got any $0 bills yet? If so that must be an awsome feeling.
In the winter they arent as effective. The crazy snow this winter and polar vortex has reaked havoc with me getting to 0.
Last 2 bills were 32 and 36 bucks.......
-
I just drove for 5 hours and seen a lot of solar collector on my route. Most were covered with a layer of snow, no money made today for sure. Some looked like a light dusting of snow, wonder how hard it would be to brush off or if it would be worth it. Most collectors around here are the tracking style but there are a few rigid ones, they are also covered with snow.
-
I just drove for 5 hours and seen a lot of solar collector on my route. Most were covered with a layer of snow, no money made today for sure. Some looked like a light dusting of snow, wonder how hard it would be to brush off or if it would be worth it. Most collectors around here are the tracking style but there are a few rigid ones, they are also covered with snow.
there not hard to brush off at all
just need a broom on a long pole
tracking is fine, it improves efficency by 30% but buying 30% more panels is way cheaper than the tracking. ...
we have a huge sell on our solar stuff right now....
-
I just drove for 5 hours and seen a lot of solar collector on my route. Most were covered with a layer of snow, no money made today for sure. Some looked like a light dusting of snow, wonder how hard it would be to brush off or if it would be worth it. Most collectors around here are the tracking style but there are a few rigid ones, they are also covered with snow.
there not hard to brush off at all
just need a broom on a long pole
tracking is fine, it improves efficency by 30% but buying 30% more panels is way cheaper than the tracking. ...
we have a huge sell on our solar stuff right now....
typically my trackers will clean themselves off in about 30 min of sun. and if i am near by i just use a "roof rake"made for snow. in the early morning sun my trackers are very close to 90 degrees so snow falls off easily. they make some heat as the sun gets through the snow and on that sharp angle it slide off quickly
-
Yep willie is correct
The company we sell solar for has a big mark down right now if u know anyone interested
A 5000 watt system just like mine is 8999, this includes all mounting and hardware to do so, as well as a 5kw kaco inverter
Ready to roll
-
Do you just run screws through the shingles? If so, what happens if a customer's roof starts leaking? Even if it has nothing to do with the solar panel mounts, I would bet they would blame it on that.
Yes u do. Under the rail you run a bead of stuff down it putting a gob around each hole, the bolt them squeezes it down and it essentially seals it back, it's not silicone though, not sure what it is but it's supposed to never set up or get hard, pretty neat stuff. I never had any to leak. See no reason it should either. The top of the bolt also has a rubber washer around it.
Sounds like water cutoff, or could be butyl rubber.
Water cutoff is some nasty stuff to get off your hands or clothes. Dad was a union tin knocker and they'd make the apprentices apply that stuff. It doesn't ever get hard that I've seen so there claims about that are spot on.