Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: tronsliver on June 25, 2013, 12:40:47 PM
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See the enclosed letter from the EPA to Central Boiler written a few weeks ago. Keep in mind that OWB manufactures knew that the efficiency rating shown on hang-tags attached to their units, and published in their marketing materials, were flawed as early as 2010 when the EPA pulled the efficiency data from its Burnwise website. Also relevant is the fact that many states promulgated its laws based on these flawed efficiencies.
For example, the EClassic 2300 showed 86% efficiency on its hang-tag and that's what was listed on the Burnwise website. A study sponsored by the EPA showed the EClassic 2300 (three stage HH) as having only 30% thermal efficiency under real-world use. This is one of the reasons the efficiencies were pulled in late 2010.
The EPA told the manufacturers about the flawed efficiencies at the time they were pulled from Burnwise but the manufacturers elected not to remove them from the hang-tags or their marketing materials. In other words, they continued to misrepresent the boilers to consumers until the recent EPA letters were sent. The only reason the EPA sent the letters out last month is because they knew that a number of law firms found out about the flawed efficiencies and elected to do damage control. In other words, push blame on the manufacturers by proving that the manufactures knew about the flawed efficiencies yet decided not to remove them ( remember it's a volunteer program)
From a consumers perspective, if a person pays $200 dollars for a full cord of wood and the OWB burns an average of 13 full cords of wood per heating season, the consumer expects only 14% waste (100 - 86%) or $364 dollars per heating season based on a 86% thermal efficiency. Based on the Gullett’s study a person who purchased a EClassic 2300 actually loses $1820 dollars per heating season because the actual efficiency is only 30%.
70% (waste based on 30 percent efficiency) x 200 (per cord) = $140 (waste per cord) x 13 cords of wood = $1820
Additionally, when a consumer shops for a heating appliance many base their decision to purchase on the efficiency of the device. In essence, they compare to other appliances such as gas, oil and electricity before making the purchase. As you can see from the aforementioned example consumers' are being duped and neighbors are suffering the consequences - efficiency has a direct coloration to smoke and pollution. The higher the efficiency the hotter the fire burns and hence less smoke and PM 2.5.
Lastly, after Method 28 OWHH was found flawed , also as a result of the efficiency issue, NESCAUM and NYSERDA strongly questioned the raw data obtained from Method 28 OWHH on all models tested, to include the data which determined the amount of Particulate Matter measured for each test. The EPA baulked because it would require them to force retesting for 23 models at 20 thousand dollars per test. This would obviously prompt lawsuits against them from manufacturers so they massaged the data to salvage the PM results. Bottom-line is the PM results are suspect too.
For over three years now consumers have been intentionally mislead into purchasing Phase II OWBs based on deliberate false marketing schemes costing consumers thousands of dollars. Both the EPA and manufacturers are complicit.
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Your spam bud..I googled it..It showed up on other forums with only 1 post from you on other forums like this one. Reads the exact same thing..
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I can assure you that the postings were not indiscriminate but a deliberate attempt to inform consumers of misrepresentation by a large manufacturer. Efficiencies of OWBs have been discussed ad nauseam on these forums but until now there has been very little evidence to validate what most people already know to be true. That is, OWBs are the most inefficient wood burning device on the market today. I feel it is important for those who have purchased or thinking about purchasing know the truth on how they have been duped. The test data can be obtained from the EPA via a FOIA. The enclosed letter from the EPA to Central Boiler can also be obtained via a FOIA if you doubt its authenticity.
I have no affiliation with any wood burning or other heating manufacturer nor am I involved with advertising of any sort. In other words this is not spam. The facts speak for themselves and can easily be validated.
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It's not really spam. Stoves that tested at 90% efficiency on tests last year or year before are testing at 67-69% on the new test.
Which, are much more real world style numbers.
People heavily involved knew it was screwy all along but you'd look like a fool to be a company saying our stove is 67% efficient when your entire competition claims 90
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Keep in mind that EPA’s Method 28 OWHH and the new Method 28 WHH use a testing methodology based on compromise. The EPA’s Phase II program is a volunteer program. This means the only way the EPA can get manufacturers to participate is to give them a seat at the table. The 67-69 % now being reported for some units under WHH is also overly optimistic when compared to real-world results. The only way OWBs will ever get to high efficiencies is to eliminate cycling technology.
Along these same lines there's currently a federal tax credit allowing up to $300 for OWBs that meet a 75% thermal efficiency rating. Many of the manufactures are claiming their units meet the criteria by continuing to use the same efficiency values removed from the Burn Wise website and recently ordered off their hang tags. To cover their bases a few manufacturers had their units tested using EN303-5 which is the European standard. The type of technology employed in American OWB systems cannot be adequately tested using this standard. The design of EN303-5 assumes wood heating systems that do not cycle (damper closed when building quits calling for heat) or employ an auxiliary heat storage system that allows the boiler to run continually. Only a few American manufacturers employ this type of technology.
The federal statute is not explicit as to how the 75% must be measured so those manufacturers with the wherewithal (paying for testing) are taking advantage of the current language by using inappropriate testing methods. There is nothing illegal about using EN303-5 except the fact that consumers end up being the victim. Yes the consumer receives a tax credit, but again there is the assumption that the device purchased is achieving these advertised high efficiencies. In the long run the cost of operating the device far exceed the measly amount obtained from the initial tax credit.
Bottom-line: Not only are some OWB manufacturers immorally defrauding the federal government but continue to find ways to knowingly misrepresent high thermal efficiency values via advertisement as well. Google CB E-Classic 1450 brochure and look at the bottom right of page one. If you’re an average consumer how would you interpret the 90% efficiency listed on the brochure? What makes this so immoral is the fact that CB knows its units cannot come anywhere close to the efficiency listed on the brochure based on the EPA informing them in 2010 about the flaws in its Method 28, but has absolutely no second thoughts about consumers incurring thousands of dollars in losses over the life of the product. If you purchased a Phase II OWB under these false pretenses between 2010 and present you should be furious.
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If central boiler knowing mislead people then there would be a class action suit by now, so far I love my unit, but I would hope on the class action suit, I got a whole $5 from the blockbuster $100,000,000,000 law suit.
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Ok, a couple things. First of all, in your second commment, you said "OWBs are the most inefficient wood burning device on the market today." Horsecrap! (pardon my French) You're telling me that a fireplace insert is more efficient? I really don't think that there is anything out there, short of setting your floor on fire, that heats a house with wood better than and OWB. Second, I don't think many of the guys on here really worry much about their "efficiency rating." They put wood in, it heats water, it heats their house. End of story. If they burn 8 cords, they burn 8 cords. So what. They burn the amount of wood that they need to keep their house warm. Some guys will get a gasser to burn less wood. So, next year they burn 5. Awesome, they saved 3 cords of time. I don't think they look at the sticker that says how "efficient" the model is. I have no idea what the tagged efficiency is on the stove I'm getting. I know it's going to take 5-7 cords to heat my house for a winter. I didn't buy it because it says its 90% efficient and my conventional heating system is only 85%. I bought it because the wood is free.
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Yea, part of what he was saying was true but then he got carried away with the worst efficiency yada yada yada.
Many of us don't care is true, but the testing they have used for years is rather goofy.
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Scott7m,
I noticed you're a OWB dealer. I was hoping I could ask you a question and get an honest answer. Please know there is no malice intended but I'm curious if you were notified of the flawed efficiencies listed on the Phase II models you were selling. If so can you tell me when?
thanks
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Scott and the rest of you, smart'n up...sliver is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He made this post on at least 4 other OWF forums today pushing his agenda. 1st time poster on all of them...A quick google search will show he has been blogging and pushing his anti-OWF agenda as far back as 2008 pushing his half educated agenda. Read the first sentence in his attached letter to CB....it states " This letter is to all EPA Hydronic Heaters Program partners who have qualified Phase 2 Hydronic heaters for which testing was conducted using EPA method 28 OWHH"...I would guess all OWF mfgs. listed on the EPA burnwise site got this letter, yet he chooses to single out CB and makes mention of PM as being unethical...Probably because CB does more to stand up against his cause than any other company. Sliver, I've been burning an OWF both traditional and gasser for over 12 years and my families health is just fine...we are warm, we have all the hot water we need and I buy zero oil or gas from anyone. My wife had asthma since she was a kid....probably because she grew up in a house where her parents were heavy smokers....(now there is a cause for you to go after) Guess what, my OWF does not bother her asthma at all since it sits outside and does not fill the yard with smoke as you have blogged on other sites....She loves the OWF and keeping the house at 73 degrees or more! FYI we just had one of the worst winters in years and I only burned 7 cords...not the crazy numbers you like to blog about. That Colorado forest fire just burned up more wood in the last week than all the outdoor and indoor wood burners will use in the next 200 years!
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Ok, a couple things. First of all, in your second commment, you said "OWBs are the most inefficient wood burning device on the market today." Horsecrap! (pardon my French) You're telling me that a fireplace insert is more efficient? I really don't think that there is anything out there, short of setting your floor on fire, that heats a house with wood better than and OWB. Second, I don't think many of the guys on here really worry much about their "efficiency rating." They put wood in, it heats water, it heats their house. End of story. If they burn 8 cords, they burn 8 cords. So what. They burn the amount of wood that they need to keep their house warm. Some guys will get a gasser to burn less wood. So, next year they burn 5. Awesome, they saved 3 cords of time. I don't think they look at the sticker that says how "efficient" the model is. I have no idea what the tagged efficiency is on the stove I'm getting. I know it's going to take 5-7 cords to heat my house for a winter. I didn't buy it because it says its 90% efficient and my conventional heating system is only 85%. I bought it because the wood is free.
100% agree..nicely said my friend! :thumbup:
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Scott and the rest of you, smart'n up...sliver is a wolf in sheeps clothing. He made this post on at least 4 other OWF forums today pushing his agenda. 1st time poster on all of them...A quick google search will show he has been blogging and pushing his anti-OWF agenda as far back as 2008 pushing his half educated agenda. Read the first sentence in his attached letter to CB....it states " This letter is to all EPA Hydronic Heaters Program partners who have qualified Phase 2 Hydronic heaters for which testing was conducted using EPA method 28 OWHH"...I would guess all OWF mfgs. listed on the EPA burnwise site got this letter, yet he chooses to single out CB and makes mention of PM as being unethical...Probably because CB does more to stand up against his cause than any other company. Sliver, I've been burning an OWF both traditional and gasser for over 12 years and my families health is just fine...we are warm, we have all the hot water we need and I buy zero oil or gas from anyone. My wife had asthma since she was a kid....probably because she grew up in a house where her parents were heavy smokers....(now there is a cause for you to go after) Guess what, my OWF does not bother her asthma at all since it sits outside and does not fill the yard with smoke as you have blogged on other sites....She loves the OWF and keeping the house at 73 degrees or more! FYI we just had one of the worst winters in years and I only burned 7 cords...not the crazy numbers you like to blog about. That Colorado forest fire just burned up more wood in the last week than all the outdoor and indoor wood burners will use in the next 200 years!
That is what I found when I google it..
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Boilerman,
I understand you sentiment. It appears you own a CB EClassic 2400 - one the boilers identified in the letter - and take exception to the information I posted. It doesn't however take away from the real issue here, that is, CB continuing to misrepresent efficiencies in their advertising and until recently on the hang tag of their units. It is quite obvious that you adamantly disapprove of my posting. I can only speculate as to why but one thing is for sure you have frantically tried to derail the facts as presented but have not offered any alternative to prove my facts are incorrect. Everything I have posted can be obtained by doing a FOIA to the EPA. I suggest you collect the information yourself and form your own conclusions. Perhaps you really don't want to know the truth about the efficiency controversy. Maybe this is just a matter of principle with you and some of the others here and you'll say anything you can to try and discredit the information. Maybe you don't want to admit you were swindled. The bottom-line is it really doesn't matter what my motivation is or yours for that matter. The fact is, CB, and based on your comments other manufacturers as well, knowingly misrepresented their products to consumers.
I ask that you try to be objective and realize that although this may be difficult for you to accept, there are many others who can use this information in deciding whether or not to purchase an OWB when compared to other heating systems. What I have attempted to accomplish is to level the playing field. Consumers have every right to know what has transpired in this industry and your personal spin has no relevancy. If you have any questions on the facts I presented please ask but please don't make this personal.
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I'm not a professor, great mathematician and certainly don't know all the details on how the EPA qualifying tests are done. But I'm not dumb either. CB and other mfgs. posted the results that were posted by and on the EPA site in their advertising materials. A test that was implemented by the EPA and good enough for the EPA, but not good enough for you. Right, wrong or otherwise, it is a method to compare OWF's on an equal basis and showed their emissions based on that test. I wouldn't know the difference between 50% efficient or 89% efficient compared with another fuel source. I wanted to upgrade my OWF and did use those results when opting for my E2400. I burned a Classic for a number of years and was totally satisfied with it. Thought is smoked less than my neighbors indoor stove. When I switched over to the E-Classic, I found I burned 35-40% less wood than I did in my Classic and I rarely see any smoke coming out of it. I think you are just working a new angle to raise support for your anti-OWF agenda, by trying to discredit the mfgs of them and to try to discredit the industry. You don't understand, yes I could by a 95%+ efficient propane furnace. Us wood burners elect to burn wood because it is cheaper and there is no way I or anyone else are losing money by burning it.
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Buddy I've known about all that since 09 just knew that when the EPA test shows you at 90% efficient u can't claim 67 and then try to compete with companies "with paperwork" showing 90% efficient
The tests we were doin then was showing some gasification models at over 120% efficient,we knew it was crap then as well
All I can say is this. If a stove is at 90% eff and it has 300 degree exhaust temps tht would mean internal temps must be 3000
It ain't happening. I have had this convo with Willieg and was glad someone actually looked at it from that perspective. The thing is, your in business, you can't let the competition kill you due to faulty testing procedures that after all, have the big EPA stamp on them
For example, if I tried to explain that to a customer here on my lot, who are they gonna trust?? The redneck from ky or a huge govt funded agency that has there labels on everything known to man?????
The exact stoves that tested 90% efficient have now tested at 67-69%. To me those numbers finally make sense. Gasification units "can" burn up to over 2000, but keep in mind those are ideal conditions and normal operating temps aren't maxed out, it all depends on the wood load, how it's blocking the nozzles at the time, etc etc etc
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As long as the CB had the EPA plate screwed to the side of it a woulda bought it, that is all you can get in MA the efficiency rating is nice to have but it coulda been 15 and I woulda got it, anything to screw big oil from getting my $
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When I purchased my 1400, the sales rep told me about the "great number" CB was getting. My reply to him, I don't care about that, I was tired having to pay our over $5,000.00/yr to the oil company and this unit made that possible.
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You guys bought for the right reasons, many base it on numbers games and wild marketing
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I don't care if it was 10 percent efficient I will save still save a fortune over oil heat here in northern Maine.
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Yup chalk me up to "dont Care". It takes X amount of wood to heat my house and hot water. I have a nice warm house and I like to cut wood. So no big deal, all it costs me is a some time, and a little sweat.
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Hey guys,
tronsilver is just a troll who wants any and all wood burning appliances outlawed.
He/she/it is obviously an anti wood burning activist who will type untruths mixed with half truths in the hopes that weak minded individuals might not see through his/hers/it's bs and inadvertently join the moronic crusade that he/she it perceives as worthwhile.
Google the name and you'll see what I'm referring to.
He/she/it has an agenda, and it appears that it's not a pretty one for those of us who choose to provide heat for our homes by means of wood.
It (tronsilver) has been vanquished from at least two other sites, and I'm hoping the mods here will do the same.
Go away evil troll!!!!
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Maybe he is one of those Hackers from China, trying to bring down the US one potential sale at a time. And to that I say Zǔzhǐ hēikè hé fāsòng tōngguò S chǎomiàn hé xìngyùn qū qí
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I also represent a boiler manufacturer and can see both sides of the story, on one hand we have a govt agency that knew the #'s were wrong and still used them, WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT. on the other hand we have my competition using those same #'s all the while knowing that they were flawed, Use your heads folks it happens in allmost any industry, govt. makes a mistake and the private sector pays the price, do you think that the cheese wiz at the EPA that approved the test will be repromanded or maybe lose his job? I do not. Allow me to put it this way, remember the BP oil spill, I may not remember all the details but I believe that 6 federal inspectors gave a safety award to the deep water horizon 2 weeks before 11 men died on it, to my knowledge the only people ever held responsible for that disaster was BP even after the news said that the officials were being investigated for taking bribes. We as individuals can certainly choose what corporation we do buisiness with but as manufacturers we cannot choose another dep agency to qualify the units that we have invested sometimes millions of our own money into research and development. Who should the consumer really be angry with. I do not work with the manufacturer mentioned in any way nor do I wish to but I do not like to hear this industry be bashed for govt failures either.
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I also represent a boiler manufacturer and can see both sides of the story, on one hand we have a govt agency that knew the #'s were wrong and still used them, WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT. on the other hand we have my competition using those same #'s all the while knowing that they were flawed, Use your heads folks it happens in allmost any industry, govt. makes a mistake and the private sector pays the price, do you think that the cheese wiz at the EPA that approved the test will be repromanded or maybe lose his job? I do not. Allow me to put it this way, remember the BP oil spill, I may not remember all the details but I believe that 6 federal inspectors gave a safety award to the deep water horizon 2 weeks before 11 men died on it, to my knowledge the only people ever held responsible for that disaster was BP even after the news said that the officials were being investigated for taking bribes. We as individuals can certainly choose what corporation we do buisiness with but as manufacturers we cannot choose another dep agency to qualify the units that we have invested sometimes millions of our own money into research and development. Who should the consumer really be angry with. I do not work with the manufacturer mentioned in any way nor do I wish to but I do not like to hear this industry be bashed for govt failures either.
looks like to me misrepresentation to the customer..Knowing these days..Surprised theres no law suit (that I know of)
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The companies ony posted what the government told them too! That's the bad part
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I guess somebody should be in charge of keeping us honest, trouble is the appointed ones can't be trusted either. Point is as a consumer, do your research, if what you are being told by the dealer or manufacturer makes sense then follow through with your project and don't trust numbers that we all know are crap to start with. We run our boilers at all my shows to show as real world as we can showing exhaust temps and all to potential customers. I would truly like to see more of our competition doing this as it sure does attract some attention. Last year at the Fryeburg fair in Maine we had over 1 million BTU's being dumped into the audience by myself and competitors in a very friendly way, the participants included, Harmon stoves( pellets) Empire with their outdoor unit, and Vigas with their indoor unit, lots of other alternative energy companies there as well. We all now have a new street on the fairgrounds called ENERGY ROW and it is a great attraction, That is the sort of thing that I trust and I would invite any of the other dealers to join us or start your own energy row at your local fair, sometimes it is difficult to convince the fair association but it is worth the effort, if I can help let me know, I'm sure Fryeburg will vouch for energy row as we think we can double the vendors and space this year
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I guess somebody should be in charge of keeping us honest, trouble is the appointed ones can't be trusted either. Point is as a consumer, do your research, if what you are being told by the dealer or manufacturer makes sense then follow through with your project and don't trust numbers that we all know are crap to start with. We run our boilers at all my shows to show as real world as we can showing exhaust temps and all to potential customers. I would truly like to see more of our competition doing this as it sure does attract some attention. Last year at the Fryeburg fair in Maine we had over 1 million BTU's being dumped into the audience by myself and competitors in a very friendly way, the participants included, Harmon stoves( pellets) Empire with their outdoor unit, and Vigas with their indoor unit, lots of other alternative energy companies there as well. We all now have a new street on the fairgrounds called ENERGY ROW and it is a great attraction, That is the sort of thing that I trust and I would invite any of the other dealers to join us or start your own energy row at your local fair, sometimes it is difficult to convince the fair association but it is worth the effort, if I can help let me know, I'm sure Fryeburg will vouch for energy row as we think we can double the vendors and space this year
I saw those set ups last yr at the Fryeburg Fair..Ill see them this fall again
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It was a very educational row was it not? I really liked the professional competition all being in the same row, we all got along really well, This year I am trying to get somebody to bring a gasoline powered unit that runs on wood smoke, last year I met a young man that has been running his old Ford pickup truck on smoke made from wood chips for 10 years. If you don't believe it go to drive on wood dot com. Adolf Hitler did it in WW2 because they had very little fuel during the war. The young man tells me that a 5 gallon bucket of wood chips will get him 10 miles down the road. Please stop in and say HI you will know me as the handsome long haired / bearded libertarian, self reliant, wacko guy
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It was a very educational row was it not? I really liked the professional competition all being in the same row, we all got along really well, This year I am trying to get somebody to bring a gasoline powered unit that runs on wood smoke, last year I met a young man that has been running his old Ford pickup truck on smoke made from wood chips for 10 years. If you don't believe it go to drive on wood dot com. Adolf Hitler did it in WW2 because they had very little fuel during the war. The young man tells me that a 5 gallon bucket of wood chips will get him 10 miles down the road. Please stop in and say HI you will know me as the handsome long haired / bearded libertarian, self reliant, wacko guy
Yeah Ive heard and seen videos of wood power vehicles...You know what I probably did talk to you at the last fair lol..That chipper burner was pretty impressive....Yeah its nice to have the outdoor boilers in one row..I was surprised central wasn't there..Ill be back at the fair this oct...
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Yes, they have a very good dealer right there in Conway NH just down the road, I have asked him several times to join us but he does not like doing big shows, he stops by when he's there but has no interest in an 8 day show,I can see his point as we seldom sell much on the spot but it does get the product in front of the public and if they like what they see the sales do come in later.
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Yes, they have a very good dealer right there in Conway NH just down the road, I have asked him several times to join us but he does not like doing big shows, he stops by when he's there but has no interest in an 8 day show,I can see his point as we seldom sell much on the spot but it does get the product in front of the public and if they like what they see the sales do come in later.
Yeah I see that dealer's truck from time to time when Im in Conway..Yeah I can see his point...But like you said least it gets the product out...I know Central has a spot at the Deerfield Fair..
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I'm not a fan of the shows n stuff really. It's just not my style, I find salesman in general very aggravating so I always feel a bit guilty or awkward doing shows. I Donno.. It's just me I guess
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I do not consider myself a sales man but instead a person who has helped hundreds of families get off oil, educating them on proper instalation, good burn practices and maintenance of many different brands rather I sold it or not. Sales is a very small part of what I do at the shows, they are a great time for all. We all should be working together to promote wood burning for heat as we do at Fryeburg fair, I have been to some shows where competition bashes each other and believe me, the potential customers then only look at us all as crooks and want nothing to do with the wood burning industry, contact the local dealers for Heatmor, Vigas, Benjamin and harmon if you don't believe that working together helps us all, we used to be all spread around the grounds now we are all together in location as well as mindset!
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Well I know what you mean but it varies from one area to the other. I have always not liked salesman because there usually peddling the latest miracle to the masses of unducated folks in eastern ky whether its a new vacuum or the latest Amish heater
Many people tend to shy away from any form of salesman here, so my whole approach is to be who I am and don't worry about the professional appeal thing all that much, many folks buy from me locally simply because when I showed up at there place I was in jeans and a tshirt and the other guy was in a business shirt, it makes some uncomfortable and when I'm true to myself they just feel at ease
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We are not so different, I have long black and grey hair with a full beard, If my hands are dirty at a show from working then so be it at least it's clean dirt.
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I have a Hardy H4, so I don't think I can talk about effiency, but I do know that last year after putting in some real good insulated pex I went from burning about 18 cords a year with a H2 down to about 7 cord. That is heating a 3500 sq foot house and a 1500 sq foot shop.
Have not paid a penny for hot water or heat to the electric co.
Right now I am filling it up once a week to keep the water hot. Just wish I could use it for ac.
Wood is not a issue, I have 120 acres and my father in law has over 300 that joins me. I can't even begin to keep up with just cleaning up dead trees. Never have to cut a live one for at least 200 years at the rate I am going....
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Where do you live Georgia? I guess with those numbers I would not complain either, congratulations on the new pipe, it does make a big difference especially in a wet ditch doesn't it. I used the cheap stuff when I put my boiler in 10 years ago and replaced it 2 years later with, Logstor/ Urecon, what a difference! I do wish that the Feds would get their heads out of their butts on the testing though as I do believe that the efficiancy ratings are something that the public should be aware of and it seems the Gov. is just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks, this avenue only costs manufacturers lots of money and then that cost has to get passed on to the customer, no wonder the EPA approved units are so much more expensive.
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I am in S E Missouri.
I don't see how wood boilers can really be tested, it seems like there are too many variables in the fuel. Green, dry, rotten, pithy. oak ash elm cherry etc...
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Exactly, you obviosly have a good setup, keep up the good work
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There not tested with firewood as you know it usually. Often times it's a manufactured wood product that has a known btu value
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How are they gonna enforce Phase 2 if they aren't really sure if their tests are 500% accurate or 500% inaccurate?
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Why don't the epa regulate volcanoes and what they spit out? That would give them a full time job, and get them out of our lives
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I am in S E Missouri.
I don't see how wood boilers can really be tested, it seems like there are too many variables in the fuel. Green, dry, rotten, pithy. oak ash elm cherry etc...
If you are from S E Mo. you don't know what cold weather is. I love going to Branson on vacation but I know your winter is not even close to the winters in Wis. I'm old enough to remember winters that were 30 below for a week straight. As for the gov. I would not trust one thing they told me. This is not the land of the free anymore. The gov. controls almost every aspect of your lives. Kind of like Hitler did in WW2.
Every company is out to make a buck, and they don"t care how they do it.