Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: ST98 on September 01, 2013, 12:10:57 PM
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Afternoon all, I have a question about going 1 inch to 3/4 out of the HE. I'm going to bring 1 inch to the HE from the OWB. Then run out to two 100k garage fans. Each will have its own circulator. My buddy has the same set up. When he came out of the HE be went to all 3/4 to the blowers. I was going to use 1 inch thinking more flow would be more heat. I don't mind the extra few dollars for larger valves, lines, fitting, etc. am on the right track or does it matter? They are 100' round trip from the blowers with eight 90,s. 12' vertical head and was thinking of running them with a taco8. I may be overthinking this but I do a lot of friction loss calculations on fire hose the same size and it matters quite a bit.
Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks
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Yea... Hmm.. I don't see any reasoning behind going with 3/4".
What are you trying to accomplish?
When you say both 100k heaters have there own circs? But from what, from the boiler, a heat exchanger?
How many things are on each loop? Are there more than one loop?
Just trying to understand what's going on
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I'm trying to accomplish the most heat to each unit. Both are on there own circulater from the heat exchanger. Two loops one for each 100k unit. Also a very small baseboard loop from a different circulator from the he, maybe 10 k at the most.
My question is it better to spend a few more dollars to go with 1 inch or does it matter at all and just go with 3/4"? All this is from the he to the blowers. Nothing with going back to the OWB.
All this would go from the he to a manifold to the pumps and then out.
Thanks
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As long as you have plenty of btu available the 1" lines are definitely worth it, they'll flow twice as many btu as 3/4" lines. Doing it more efficiently, to move the same amount of btu through a smaller diameter line would require more energy as well
For example if you see a het exchanger rated at 100,000 btu. That's at a certain gpm, and if it has 1" ports then it was likely tested with 1" lines hooked to it.
Bottom line is yes the 1" lines are far superior to moving btu's vs. a 3/4"
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Thanks Scott. Seemed to make sense but I needed a professional to keep me straight. I'm still attempting to design everything so it's somewhat right and this info sure helps.
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Yep, good luck!!! :thumbup:
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I've have another question (many more to come) can you use galvanized pipe in a heat system? I was going to make a manifold out of it, I have lots of new galvanized fitting of all kinds, but did t know if it was good or not. My furnace seems to have a mix of black pipe and galvanized in its manifold.
Thanks
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I've seen galvanized used, it's just a coating... Typically the galvanized fittings are cheaper made though, so it's up to you.
I used to use them on water plates when going from 1" to 3/4" to tie into domestic lines and they all rusted up really bad. Looked like crap and started to seep, so I'm not real crazy about them but like I said I have seen them in use in other situations.
A nice brass header sure would look nice :photo:
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Copper and brass, take your time, hang the manifold on the wall away from the boiler for easier servicing of the oil boiler, do it right and you will be proud of it.
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I have a stainless manifold that's new. It looks pretty nice. Would that work or is copper or brass better?
I'm a little confused about the temps for oxygen barrier pex tubing. If my OWB is set at say 190 or even 200 I would need a pex inside the building that met the same temperature rating? I was looking at pex and it seems it comes in 180 or 200 temp range. The only difference seemed to be a double in price for the 20 degrees. I'd like to do this install once so I wasn't sure if I was looking at the whole pex thing right?
Thanks
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Look t the details, that rating in pex is at 100psi
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Thanks Scott, two were listed differently. Any recommendations on a brand of 1" pex. I used 3/4 last week for the first time and it wasn't to bad. Thinking 1" I'll need to eat my spinach.
Thank you
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Shark bite or Watts are good
If you wanna spend a little extra pex al pex sure looks good inside because you can bend it and it will stay bent how you want due to the aluminum
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Home depot has Sharkbite blue and red pex for sale for $57 per hundred feet. Lowest price I've seen anywhere. Free shipping too!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-in-x-100-ft-Blue-PEX-Pipe-U880B100/202033015#.UinPNxukq1U (http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-in-x-100-ft-Blue-PEX-Pipe-U880B100/202033015#.UinPNxukq1U)
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Come on, you spend good money on your tractor and chainsaw and are thinking about cheaping out on your heating system, Pex Al pex is not bad quality stuff, not what I use on the job but definatly better than that spaghetti crap they sell at the box stores.
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Hey Slim, what are you using or recommend?
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What's the benefit of pex al pex in a non pressurized system?
As far as pex goes, not seen any pex crack or fail, even the cheapest of pex.
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Rigidity, I like the look of pex that holds it's shape, not the crap that expands 20% when it gets hit with hot water and droops between the hangers making snapping noises as it moves in the hangers, my wife woke me up at 4:30 this morning because she heard a garden hose dripping outside the house that I had left on last night, can you imagine her listening to snapping noises every time a zone calls for heat, I would get no sleep at all. I personnaly use a product sold out of my main supply house called Fosta-Pex, it is rigid, cream colored, looks like a real pipe. I like my sleep and a neat looking job, it's worth the extra money to do the job the right way the first time.
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Well, I can't say that I've ever had anyone mention any snapping or popping of pex??
Never had any drooping issues either if it was clipped up properly, now under a home with no basement often there is nothing to attach to but in basements never a problem
All of this is all fine and dandy as long as you have unlimited funds, I think this is where different markets vary. You as well as I often deal with folks who are looking at this whole owb installation as a project and they've budgeted for it or simply have plenty of money to do it to the finest detail. However in my area it's not like that at all, folks come here and want something that will work and its not because they "want it" its because there trying to decide on whether to pay the electric bill or buy food for there family. It's that way among a lot of members here I've spoken to as well, maybe not deciding between heat or food but still under serious financial stress due to heating.
With that being said, yea there are superior products out there to regular pex, yes there is different quality of line on the market in regards to underground, but many folks simply can not afford it and would never buy it if they could. There are products out there for them, I've installed miles of insulated 3-5 wrap pex packages and haven't had a call yet saying that one has failed, going back several years now. I believe that ditch preparation is as important as the line itself and taking the time to make sure it's installed correctly.
There is just more ways to skin a cat I guess ya could say, we all have customers who want every detail so so and the best products available, but everyone is def not like that, and it's far less common in my area. I feel through the brand you carry alone tends towards a different customer base, and the area your in probably takes it further that way as well. It's just the majority of folks i deal with are just the guy next door looking for a bit of financial independence in tough times. Varying products and markets can make huge differences.
But yea pex al pex is more rigid, I like it too but many dealers push it telling them its better for there stove simply because they don't know any difference, just came from that empyre install the other day where a dealer sold him pex al pex for the o2 barrier, I didn't wanna ruin his day by telling him it didn't matter in an open system but ahh well lol
:thumbup:
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I definatly agree on different products for different areas, I did a job in Columbia Kentucky last summer and could not find lots of products that I use up here on a regular basis, I couldn't even find Grundfos circs at any supply houses or even a tubing cutter to cut inch and one half copper to make my sidearm heater from. I think being that the weather up here is a bit more unforgiving, people are a bit more pro active in the quality of the products we use, the thing that gets me though is that the same people who want to cheap out on thier heating system are the same people that just spent 10,000 dollars each on a new snow sled and boat that rarely gets used, priorities are a bit mixed up in my mind!
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I can definitely attest to what Scott is talking about. I am in a situation where I can't afford the traditional heating system my house has currently. I was lied to when I asked about the utility history and it nearly wiped us out last winter. Therefore, since last winter wiped us out, and I'm pinching every penny, they I already don't have, to eek out a system that will keep us warm this winter. I'm sacrificing some things now, to save in the long run. I'm putting my stove in blocks and not a slab for this reason. I'm leaving out ball valves in places to cut costs. It's taking everything I have to get the system in enough to actually heat the house. I don't have the luxury of putting in a cadillac system. I'm getting it in now and upgrade things later as I find the funds.
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I feel for you man, you are heading in the right direction by putting in a boiler instead of buying a new boat or Harley, do the best you can for now but try to think it out so you don't waste money replacing crap later on.