Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: Farmer85 on September 17, 2013, 09:57:50 PM
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Hello all. I've got a new earth owb I just installed. I have a rancher 365 that's about 150' of total line in 1" pex pipe. It's about 100 from house and the rest is ran inside the house. I used a pre assembled underground pipe that my dealer offered in ground. It has a wilo pump not sure what model but its a single speed. My question is that inside my house where they tied into the heat exchangers they swept the pex up above the water heater exchanger and bent the lines down into it. It looks like junk. I assume they did it to prevent using 90 fittings??? It's a one continuous loop through plate exchanger and through furnace exchanger and back to stove. It would look so much better if I would put 90 fittings in them but the problem is I will have to do 2 in each line. To come up then over then down, or I could turn exchanger on its side and only do one on each line. What are my concerns here? First how much are 90's a concern. Is it hard on pump ? How about performance. And third can you turn a plate style heat exchanger on its side ? Right now it sets on top of water heater with lines coming up and bending back around behind water heater.
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Can you post some pics?
Elbows are equivalent to about 10' of pex. So if you add 4 of them that is like adding 40 more feet of pex.
The plate installed that way works the best because air can't get trapped in it. You can mount it on it's side but may need to setup some way to bleed the air out. If it has air trapped inside it will not work as well.
They make brackets that snap on the pex and give you a pretty tight bend. May or may not help in your case but would be a better option than the elbow if it can work.
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Hmm... Did u get that line they make with the 12-2 wire in it??
Def not crazy about wilo pumps either.
If we knew what size it was we'd know if it was proper size or if you could get away with more elbows.
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Yes it is the stuff with the 12/2 Romex inside of it. I wasn't as impressed as I hoped I would be for 8 bucks a foot but what's done is done. It's got the 2 1" pex's and a 1/2" also. I'll look at it in the morning when I get home to see what pump it is. I know it had 113 on the center of pump where you can remove the screw to manually turn the pump. That's not a model number I don't think though. I am just trying to figure a way out to make it look nicer. Also does anybody ever put a bypass on the domestic water side for summer when not in use so your hot water is not heating up boiler water and running through exchanger after it leaves water heater. I don't plan to heat all summer.
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Hmmm..... I'm not sure how they plumbed your 20 plate but it should be installed in the supply line going into the tank. That way the water is either preheated by the boiler or its not?! There should be no way for it to rob heat, plus the pump will be off anyway in the summer, but even if it were on, if installed right it won't do that
The screw in the end of the pump is a bleeder screw, you loosen it up on initial start up to allow air to exit pump.
Yep, as far as the pipe goes I know what you mean.
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It's plumbed into the hot side of the heater tank. So when not in use it pushes hot water out of tank through plate exchanger and on to whatever. After taking a shower you can feel heat on exchanger and on fittings going to boiler but it doesn't appear to be heating up the lines to boiler. He said this way it is on demand and not heating water just sitting there???? That's how it is, your telling me it should be plumbed onto cold side using the tank as storage??
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Don't you just hate it when the job looks like crap. If you go to the supply house and ask for long radius ( refridgeration ) 90's, they can be used to cut down the resistance over a regular 90. you should have purge tee's and ball valves on all 4 ports of the heat exchanger for future cleaning purposes as well as a snifter valve and domestic water feed on the wood boiler side of the heat exchanger placed between the ball valves for purging lines of air and to blow them out with air if the wood boiler has to be shut down long term during the winter, if you would like I will send you a picture of one of my installs to give you an idea of what I am talking about.
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Yes that would be great.
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Hi just got home and they installed a wilo star 32f. It looks like. Can anyone now tell me with 150' of line 300' total of one inch pex. Is it sized right and how about those 90's. thanks again
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Yea it's installed wrong to say the least.
It's supposed to be in your cold supply line only. I've done hundreds of them and trust me I've never had one complaint.
Slim I thought all you all used was side arms on the domestic water?
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Slim, what do you use to clean a heat exchanger? Is it done under pressure?
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If the plate exchanger was installed on the supply line of the water heater and let's just say that hot water sets in the heater as a storage tank if you will. Now lets say after sitting for a day or so you use hot water. You honestly think that the water sitting in that heater tank is warm enough to use? I have to say I'm just not seeing that. Also aren't you heating a lot of water not necessary? This guy said he just put one in for a man that had 5 women in house,( lots of showers.) and the guy never ran out of hot water hooked up like this. Maybe you could explain your theory to us so we can understand. I'm not disagreeing but I think I just need to understand your theory first. Thanks
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This ain't a theory, I've done hundreds so its not speculation at all, No it will not cool down anywhere near that fast, but yes it does have to be in use to make hot water, the water enters the tank hotter than your used to, at around 135. The tank becomes storage and as long as you use "some water" you'll be fine. I have a 50 gallon tank and have went to the mountains on a long weekend, return home and still have hot water for a shower 3 days later. I did notice it had cooled down some compared to normal, but I still had to blend a little cold.
Now as far as it heatimg water it doesn't have to?? How's that? The supply line going in the tank provides all the hot water for the home. It is impossible to run it out of hot water, I have installed these in shops where they wash farm equipment as a stand alone unit and they could hook there water hose to it and spray 130 degree water all day.
Like I said I've done hundreds like this and never had an issue, never ran out of hot water, and it's the simplest way of doing it. All winter long and year to year my shower knobs are in the same place, being that it it is very consistent in water temp.
If your boiler is down to 140 and your set up as on demand, well, your gonna notice a big difference, vs as if it were set up where the tank was a buffer, and makes it very consistent
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Also, if its after the tank. That quart or so of water that's always in the exchanger will be equal to the boiler temp, potentially 180 or higher, so you could get a scald if it was at a faucet close to the tank. There is numerous reasons why it's not ideal but that's just one.
If it were mine and someone installed it the way your talking they would be coming back for sure.
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Slim, what do you use to clean a heat exchanger? Is it done under pressure?
You may go 20 years and never have to clean one, its hard to say, but different areas are different
In slims area I think it's more common, on ones I've seen that needed cleaned they were unhooked and customer soaked them in CLR and flushed em with a hose after a while
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Yes that makes perfect sense on the process of how you hook them up. I hadn't thought of the hard to control temp part of it. I will change mine around. I would call them back but I can replumb it in an hour and do a much nicer job anyway. Also can somebody give me a pic or link to the fittings you are using at heat exchanger to make it removable. Unions?
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Yes I build my own sidearm heaters to fit the tank in almost all cases, I have used plate exchangers for domestic hot water but in most cases I prefer the sidearm as it will heat the entire tank very close to the boiler temp and then I install a mixing valve on the hot water to prevent scalding and keep the water a consistant temp. as far as cleaning, all it takes is purge tees and boiler drains on the sidearm or plate exchanger then ball valves to isolate the exchanger from the rest of the system. close the ball valves, hook up wash machine hoses to a pump and flush the exchanger with calcium lime and rust remover (CLR) or a comercial coil cleaner from the supply house no need to remove the exchanger and the solution is pumped through it helping it open up faster, It usually takes about 5 minutes per side and the exchanger is as good as new
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Slim, do you trust mixing valves that well?
I am very leery of them and have had different building inspectors and such tell me that mixing valves were one of there common failures they always look for because of the danger involved.
Once I heard that and thought about it more, the plates make all the hot water I could possibly use with no mixing valve needed to make it safe and it just made sense. If I did have even one mixing valve to fail and a child was sitting in the bath and suddenly 195 degree water was coming out, that would be a disaster.
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I have never seen one fail in that direction. the ones that have failed have always gone in the cold direction and are very easy to replace, Taco is the brand that I use.