Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: hondaracer2oo4 on November 25, 2013, 08:57:19 AM
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Not good.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/17/democrats-epa-crack-down-on-wood-burning-at-home-87325 (http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/17/democrats-epa-crack-down-on-wood-burning-at-home-87325)
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I wonder how they expect me to heat my home? I cannot afford $5,000.00 plus per year, to keep my home at 68 degrees. I can however, afford $600.00 a year to keep my home at 73 degrees using wood and it's safer for me. My wood burning device is 30 feet away from my home. My home owners insurance went down a tic due to the danger being away from the house not inside, and that includes the oil furnace (Carbon Monoxide Poisoning potential) and wood stove (chimney fire potential). The funny thing is, my neighbor a couple weeks ago claimed that I haven't fired up my OWB because he never sees any smoke coming from it. Roger
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This country is in one helluva shape......
Its sad but I fear we've traveled down the path of ignorance for so long that the only way back to normal is through a reset or revolution of some type.
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Scoot - Consider yourself lucky that you don't live here in New England. The progressives ( i.e. liberals) have taken over the governments and now we're starting to see exactly what they are made of; a bunch of lunatics. What's more troubling is the news media is on their side and they slant the news to fit their agenda. If someone with an opposing point of view offers their insight, they are marginalized and given little air time.
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Not good.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/17/democrats-epa-crack-down-on-wood-burning-at-home-87325 (http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/17/democrats-epa-crack-down-on-wood-burning-at-home-87325)
Lets not get political in our wood forum but one point think what party's backers pollute the most one with the most money . This article is fox related .
this article is all bull %^*#
:bag:
heat550
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Here is a 'Non' Fox based "BS" news organiztion. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/11/2768501/wood-boiler-lawsuit-epa/ (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/11/2768501/wood-boiler-lawsuit-epa/)
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Wow...not sure whether I read a real news article, op-ed or onion article. I am a bit reluctant to give any credence to a news source that is so overtly biased.
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Here is a 'Non' Fox based "BS" news organiztion. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/11/2768501/wood-boiler-lawsuit-epa/ (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/11/2768501/wood-boiler-lawsuit-epa/)
They will have to pry the lighter from my cold dead hand. does this sound familiar.
:bag:
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Wow...not sure whether I read a real news article, op-ed or onion article. I am a bit reluctant to give any credence to a news source that is so overtly biased.
Not sure what news source you are referring to but I see no mention of any news organization mentioned in either article. However, to be fair I will do a bit of searching to see what I can come up with. If it's a bogus article, I'll be the first to admit it. But, if it isn't, I'll do my best to site my sources. Plus, I have no idea what an "onion" piece is...perhaps my ignorance is showing through. Roger
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I don't believe the article itself is bogus. There was one similar in the Washington Post recently. I just don't think the one linked did a good job of relaying the "complete" story. I have many unanswered questions regarding the suits. Will these new standards be retroactive? How will this affect the pricing of compliant models? How many current models are compliant? How do these standards compare to indoor wood stove emissions? The linked article came across as a very "us vs. them" "big brother is going to take your OWB's away". I just don't trust the news that comes from a source that seems to have a political objective. This very much applies to both sides of the spectrum. The Onion is a satirical "newspaper" that is good for laughs and also fooling the Chinese state owned media from time to time.
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Maybe a copy of the lawsuit will help.
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perhaps the EPA is the owner of the site and they are watching you all???? are we paranoid now!! we post admitadley where we live, how muh we burn ect.....hide now :bag:
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Your safe Willie, remember you are in Canada, Hey if they let me accross the border again can I come and stay with you for a while till the gunsmoke clears anyway
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slim i am always up for visitors, i have had a few visitors form the site stop in on their way by. stop on in anytime.
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Thanks Willie for the offer but this IS my country and I fully intend to defend her from the left and right wing extremists, in case anybody has not figured it out yet I am a proud LIBERTY minded LIBERTARIAN, GOD save THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!!
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You must get political, it is a big issue with wood burning and not everyone understands wood.
We must all keep talking about politics and how it changes how we burn wood, so we can keep burning wood.
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Scoot - Consider yourself lucky that you don't live here in New England. The progressives ( i.e. liberals) have taken over the governments and now we're starting to see exactly what they are made of; a bunch of lunatics. What's more troubling is the news media is on their side and they slant the news to fit their agenda. If someone with an opposing point of view offers their insight, they are marginalized and given little air time.
I don't know about that Roger.Still can't beat New Hampshire laws over all,...And Im proud to live in New England.. Burning wood will never be outlawed..
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Thanks Willie for the offer but this IS my country and I fully intend to defend her from the left and right wing extremists, in case anybody has not figured it out yet I am a proud LIBERTY minded LIBERTARIAN, GOD save THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!!
im not talking draft dodging or anything slim..just a handshake and wobbly pop or two and some conversation on wood burning and life in general.
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Scoot - Consider yourself lucky that you don't live here in New England. The progressives ( i.e. liberals) have taken over the governments and now we're starting to see exactly what they are made of; a bunch of lunatics. What's more troubling is the news media is on their side and they slant the news to fit their agenda. If someone with an opposing point of view offers their insight, they are marginalized and given little air time.
I don't know about that Roger.Still can't beat New Hampshire laws over all,...And Im proud to live in New England.. Burning wood will never be outlawed..
MattyNH - Don't get me wrong, I believe NH has the checks and balances in place to keep state government at bay. I love living in NH. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. It's more of the federal level I'm worried about, They are becoming too intrusive, and I mean from all parties. Can anyone say NSA? I believe the Patriot Act signed into law in 2001 and overwhelmingly supported by both parties started this downward spiral and I don't expect it to get any better, perhaps it will get worse. But, knowing how it is for some people around world, we have it darned good in the country.
Gotta get ready for work. Have a great MattyNH, Roger
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Can't vote out an organization that isn't elected.
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They are going to force me to live deeper in the woods.
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As a person (me) who is center to right leaning, I feel anyone whose been in office for more than 2 or 3 terms has been there too long. That includes all parties; Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, etc... I believe around that time they begin to lose touch with reality and become fixated on their legacy rather than working for the people who put them there. Plus, I also believe it may cut down on the amount of corruption. Perhaps I'm being to simplistic in my thinking but I think this is a start. Roger
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Roger Your thinking just fine. ( Term limits ) 4 terms for the House ( 8 years ) and 2 terms for the Senate ( 12 years ) Time for some knew people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ya I agree there should be term limits.. Also the whole health care for life for free ( a benefit they get) should end as well.. Once you out of office or term is up.. Now "you" got to fork the health ins bill instead of the tax payers.. It's no different than if I was to switch jobs
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I wholeheartedly Agree, MattyNH. No more free ride. If they pass laws that every American has to follow, they should too.
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They can call me anything they want to, it is thier LIBERTY. What matters to me personally is what those who know me, call me. Being a libertarian is not unpatriotic, in fact I think that it is just the opposite. Being a crook or warmonger is unpatriotic.
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I heard a news report the other day on the radio and dont recall if it was china or japan but one of those countries has banned open air grills....they would freak at the site of an owb....
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Our freedoms are under attack on all fronts, anyone that tries to play it off as no big deal makes me want to slap them in the head to see if there is anyone home, this isnt what our veterans fought to protect, this isnt the reason immigrants fled to this land, this isnt why we fought a revolutionary war, obama and those like him can kiss my hind end!
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What is the difference in our OWB and an in-home wood burner with a chimney? They both expel wood smoke/gasses. My state(Tennessee) doesn't have any regulations as far as I know. Not many OWB around me but there are a lot of chimneys around with smoke coming out.
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big business doesn't like it when regular working people figure out ways to keep more of their earned money, their used to everyone just throwing it right back too them. They have a lot of power[MONEY,LOBBIEST,LAWERS AND A HEATHY DOSE OF JUST PLAIN GREED}not much we can do, is there? seems like all we do is try to elect people that represent us just to find out they don't,then their just set for life.Hate to say this but I,m getting kind of tired of voting then find out its just another a$$ hole don't feel like I ever vote for the right one.Do they pass leg on owbs becauce all they care about is the enviroment? or do they just want more of our money?seems pretty clear to me.Dont mean to ramble on but I,m just kind of a simple minded sob work hard every day and take care of my own,thats the American way,I,m proud and thankful I still can,but feel awfull bad for a lot of folks that just don't have that opportunity anymore,when the money gets tight we mean nothing its always them first.But I think that just makes some people stronger.for now gov just strolls thru us like a field of wildflowers we need a proper mix of rattle snakes in the field.Still proud American,Just don't have much pride in gov.
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big business doesn't like it when regular working people figure out ways to keep more of their earned money, their used to everyone just throwing it right back too them. They have a lot of power[MONEY,LOBBIEST,LAWERS AND A HEATHY DOSE OF JUST PLAIN GREED}not much we can do, is there? seems like all we do is try to elect people that represent us just to find out they don't,then their just set for life.Hate to say this but I,m getting kind of tired of voting then find out its just another a$$ hole don't feel like I ever vote for the right one.Do they pass leg on owbs becauce all they care about is the enviroment? or do they just want more of our money?seems pretty clear to me.Dont mean to ramble on but I,m just kind of a simple minded sob work hard every day and take care of my own,thats the American way,I,m proud and thankful I still can,but feel awfull bad for a lot of folks that just don't have that opportunity anymore,when the money gets tight we mean nothing its always them first.But I think that just makes some people stronger.for now gov just strolls thru us like a field of wildflowers we need a proper mix of rattle snakes in the field.Still proud American,Just don't have much pride in gov.
if you all think we are even a blip on big businesses radar your only kidding yourself, thats not where the pressure comes from
the pressure comes from groups like the sierra club or what not that funnel money in form of campaigns n such, the politicians eventually cave
buttt, the rules and regs regarding this stuff will likely never go before congress, it will probably just be signed into law
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Your first and second ARE the rattlesnakes in the field, pay attention to them before we lose them!
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big business doesn't like it when regular working people figure out ways to keep more of their earned money, their used to everyone just throwing it right back too them. They have a lot of power[MONEY,LOBBIEST,LAWERS AND A HEATHY DOSE OF JUST PLAIN GREED}not much we can do, is there? seems like all we do is try to elect people that represent us just to find out they don't,then their just set for life.Hate to say this but I,m getting kind of tired of voting then find out its just another a$$ hole don't feel like I ever vote for the right one.Do they pass leg on owbs becauce all they care about is the enviroment? or do they just want more of our money?seems pretty clear to me.Dont mean to ramble on but I,m just kind of a simple minded sob work hard every day and take care of my own,thats the American way,I,m proud and thankful I still can,but feel awfull bad for a lot of folks that just don't have that opportunity anymore,when the money gets tight we mean nothing its always them first.But I think that just makes some people stronger.for now gov just strolls thru us like a field of wildflowers we need a proper mix of rattle snakes in the field.Still proud American,Just don't have much pride in gov. Amen brother.
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This is about control, not so much about money, the people that are in these groups funneling money around to make things like they see fit is doing this as a power trip, not to make more money, they already have all the money they could want, so whats left to desire, POWER!!! The feeling of superiority
Think about this, I talk to hundreds of folks about wood boilers each year, initially a lot of them have no idea what a wood boiler even is, do you really, do you really think that the rich elite who are on the chairs of these huge corps where decisions are made even has a remote clue what an owb is when most of the public doesnt even know what they are, I think not
but at the same time, whether its the feeling you get for sticking it to the man, or the feeling and sense of pride that comes from providing a lot of your own energy, or the added comfort of hydronic heat, Amen, and thats awesome!!!!!! Thank you for being part of energy independence
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There is too much control of the PEOPLE who make this country run. Way too much greed and power, none of which the American PEOPLE have anymore I for one have had enough of someone else telling me what I can and cant do.(Feds, States, Town) I was taught to take care of myself and family first, if that means I have a old "smoke dragon" to heat my house, so be it. I pay the rent on my property every year. They can all kiss my A##.
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You want to hear unreal???? I own a small turf and tree FERTILIZATION business in ct.
Before i start back up in april.I have the privilege to pay the crooks 5 different licenses and fees totaling $2000 that sucks for me.
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First, term limits solve nothing. If you want to empower departments like the epa put in more inexperienced law makers. The president is under a term limit, does that seem to help get a better president? I think not, we haven't had a competent president in years.
Second, I'm not opposed to some regulation on outdoor furnaces. Of course I think the phase 2 regulations go too far but at some point we really don't want the smoke bellowing monsters to be in every subdivision in the country. There are some companies that just don't seem to be willing to build an efficient furnace. My fear is that because of the bad offenders the regulations will have a back lash and go way too far. It would have been much better if the industry had policed itself. Hopefully this can be decided on a more local or state by state basis rather than the epa stepping in.
I agree with Scott, many of the big energy companies don't even know we exist. I attended a business leaders round table with Governor Romney when he was running for president. I was seated beside one of the top guys in Appalachian Power, our supplier of electricity. Each of us was given a space of time to discuss with Mitt some of the problems that regulation was causing in our industry. After the meeting the big shot from AP and I talked and he had no clue what we were doing. I actually think he was intrigued and definitely was not threatened.
I view myself as a conservative/libertarian but I understand we have to have some rules to keep us from hurting our neighbors. If I was living right beside an old "smoke dragon" that choked me every time I went outside I would be raising hell from the other side.
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VERY VERY well said Yoder
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Like slim said..Well said! :thumbup:
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This is about control, not so much about money, the people that are in these groups funneling money around to make things like they see fit is doing this as a power trip, not to make more money, they already have all the money they could want, so whats left to desire, POWER!!! The feeling of superiority
Think about this, I talk to hundreds of folks about wood boilers each year, initially a lot of them have no idea what a wood boiler even is, do you really, do you really think that the rich elite who are on the chairs of these huge corps where decisions are made even has a remote clue what an owb is when most of the public doesnt even know what they are, I think not
but at the same time, whether its the feeling you get for sticking it to the man, or the feeling and sense of pride that comes from providing a lot of your own energy, or the added comfort of hydronic heat, Amen, and thats awesome!!!!!! Thank you for being part of energy independence
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scott,Imo its always the money first,thats what fuels the ego and finances the want of control too keep the $ flowing their way.Money buys laws plain and simple.Talks cheap, takes money to buy whiskey we talk their sippin old grandad.Maybe if we all keep talkin and thinking we can get us a sip too.As always thanks to you guys for the help and imfo on this forum it has help me and mine conciderably. Dwight
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scott,Imo its always the money first,thats what fuels the ego and finances the want of control too keep the $ flowing their way.Money buys laws plain and simple.Talks cheap, takes money to buy whiskey we talk their sippin old grandad.Maybe if we all keep talkin and thinking we can get us a sip too.As always thanks to you guys for the help and imfo on this forum it has help me and mine conciderably. Dwight
power is more important than the money, the groups pushing these regs are not businesses,its crazy rich tree huggers who pay a lot to campaigns and such
everyone likes to believe we are the energy companies worst nightmare, but in reality, they dont even know we exsist
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scott,Imo its always the money first,thats what fuels the ego and finances the want of control too keep the $ flowing their way.Money buys laws plain and simple.Talks cheap, takes money to buy whiskey we talk their sippin old grandad.Maybe if we all keep talkin and thinking we can get us a sip too.As always thanks to you guys for the help and imfo on this forum it has help me and mine conciderably. Dwight
power is more important than the money, the groups pushing these regs are not businesses,its crazy rich tree huggers who pay a lot to campaigns and such
everyone likes to believe we are the energy companies worst nightmare, but in reality, they dont even know we exsist
Im sure they do know we exist….But at the same time we don't exist like you said, cause they are huge…Hows a few stick people burning wood gonna hurt them..
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I was raised on small family farm. Mom and dad worked hard to provide for us 9 children. My dad was one who never used chemicals on his plants, he used the natural defenses to protect the plants. Having said that, he was adamant against too much government control. I'm not against some. If you don't have some rules in place, chaos takes over. The problem we have in our area is the retired little bitty who has nothing better to do with her time than to drive around spying on what people are doing (We've had to kick her off our property before). When they find something they don't like, they inform the local government. If they don't get the results they are looking for, they have friends in the state government who listen to them who then pass along the information to their friends at federal level. Generally nothing happens but if enough people talk, those with the money and power will hear it and then the problem becomes a larger one for everyone. It becomes so restrictive that it then becomes expensive to do anything. Now, the question is; How do we stop this runaway train that's called government?
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Revolution?
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Revolution?
that post probably sent off all kinds of red flags at FBI headquarters and your house will now be under surveillance :bag: ;D
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I know the reality of it, we don't have much if any impact on their bottom line I didn't go in to this owb thinkin I was really sticken it to the man or anything.It was,probably like a lot of others on here,done out of the need too keep our heads above water.But the people who make the rules will come up with a way too get some $ out of us,wood burning permit,wood processing permit,wood transportation tax,if you buy wood they probably figure out how to get sales tax on it,might come a time when I cant give our extra eggs to friends without some kind of permit/inspection from a federal official.I know I'm being goofy here,but that but it wouldn't surprise me.I guess the only way they would know we exist if everyone heated with wood.keep on burning!
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Its like this
when you have more money than you could possibly spend, what is left to attain? Power, being able to tell others what to do replaces there drive for acquring wealth at a certain point
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Just a hillbilly from alabama, Like to thank alot of you guys on the site. Just happen to think this might be worth watching.
Not sure if it will work, if not its easy to find, just google "best 3 minute video"
heres a link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs)
Again, Just a redneck from deep south, Hope it offends noone !
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jw, I watched it and think it was worth it.
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Roger, you stop the runaway train by not supporting it and instead turn your efforts towards your family and friends, (just like your dad did)
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I've asked the same question here at work as I did in one of my previous posts; how do we stop the runaway train that's called government? One of my co-workers said that's simple, we vote everyone whose in office now, out and replace them with new blood. That sounds good but too many peoples' ideology won't allow that to happen regardless how bad it gets. Their guy/gal is the honest one. Then they sit back and piss and moan that nothing has changed! Go figure! One of the guys called me cynical - nope, not cynical - I'm very pessimistic about the current state of government. I do not see anything changing on the horizon other than token steps.