Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: DaveWertz on November 30, 2013, 07:06:19 PM
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Well last night it got dow. To 14 and my thermostat was set at 72. It was 68 in my house which I didnt think was bad at all. Now tonight its up near 30 and the thermostat is set at 76 and its 70 in the house. I dont get it. Why is there a 2 degree difference when its warmer outside? Now I have a 3speed pump running my first floor. I have a taco 007 running the upstairs which I know is way to small but it was there when I bought the place. But the upstairs is only a 2 degree difference no matter what???? Im lost and getting pissed. I just installed new insulated pipe so I dont loose heat. Is this maybe a sign of the pumps going?
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What size pump is on your owb? Your 007 pump on your oil boiler should be fine..my buddy had the same problem as you... He put a 011 pump on his owb..Solved the problem
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Did this just start happening after replacing the pipe? Did you change the length or size? If you did then the pump is probably too small. If everything is the same as before, you might have an airlock. Is the pump in the house or on the boiler?
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Everything is the same as before. The pipe size is same but I may have added 3ft to each side. Would turning the pipe speed up help any? When I blead the system the first floor was a pain. The pump was have problems pushing any kind of air out. I let it sit over night and the air finally did purge itself at the tank when I turned the pumps on. Im sure there was lots of air at the pump after the new pipe install. I just dont see how a taco007 can heat the upstairs better than a wilo 3 speed heating a first floor.
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Both pumps are in the house by the way
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Ok Dave it sounds to me like you have a ghost flow issue, has this been an issue in the past and did you change the way your piping comes into the oil boiler
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Last yr it was the same way. I didnt change anything besides the new piping. Im not sure what the ghost flow is? The house should be within 1 degree of what the thermostat is set at. Last yr when it got down in the single digits I had it set at 72 and it struggled to stay at 65??? Thought it might have been due to uninsulated pipe which im sure some of it was but its still doing the same thing and was only in the teens
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Right after the pumps there are flow control valves on each side. Now from the pumps to about 5ft past them it is all 1" copper pipe then turns into 3/4" pipe. Would this affect the flow? What were to happen if I open those flow control valves all the way open?
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Right after the pumps there are flow control valves on each side. Now from the pumps to about 5ft past them it is all 1" copper pipe then turns into 3/4" pipe. Would this affect the flow? What were to happen if I open those flow control valves all the way open?
do you know how many gpm your flow controls are adjustable too? i have seen some that are to a max of 2 gpm or less??
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It doesnt say gpm. Has max temp of 250 and max psi of 125psi.
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It doesnt say gpm. Has max temp of 250 and max psi of 125psi.
what psi do you have it at now
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Quite honest I dont know. I havent touched it since I moved in. Looks like it hasnt been touched in some time either.
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they could very well be dirty if they are old and restricting flow...i would open them up some (turne each one the same amount so you can put them back where they are now) perhaps by opening them some you can het them to shake loose the debri on them (or you may jsut have topen them a bit and leave them.
they are used to adjust the flow to each of your lines so you get teh proper amount of water to each "appliance" it seems that if they havent been touched in years they could very well be clogged up some and restricting flow?
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I will open them up a bit and leave them over night to see what happens
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I opened them up. The first floor valve was completley closed. I cound not tighten it anymore than it was. Does these valves still flow water when in the closed position? I opened it up and half a turn to see how that works. Last yr I had problems with air in the lines but I got that squared away this yr. Would it be wise to turn the pump up if I open this valve or just let it on the lowest setting?
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Well after 6 hrs of the flow valves being opened up all the way and the pump on the highest speed I didnt see any change in house temp. I set it at 74 and it stayed at 70 to 71 tops. Seems like it will get to 72 for a brief minute then back down to 70. 70 is the magic number. The pump has been running for a while now trying to keep up. I know there is no air in the lines so now what? Is the pump going out or do I have another issue?
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I set the thermostat at 70 just to see what it would do and it dropped to 67 in the house. I dont understand the temp differance no matter what temp i set it at. But I know it wont go past 72. Its not that cold outside, not cold enough to make the house chilly. Last yr at witu around the same temps outside it worked great to keep the house within 1 degree of what the thermostat was set at except on single digit days it would be 4 degrees off give or take a few more
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I set the thermostat at 70 just to see what it would do and it dropped to 67 in the house. I dont understand the temp differance no matter what temp i set it at. But I know it wont go past 72. Its not that cold outside, not cold enough to make the house chilly. Last yr at witu around the same temps outside it worked great to keep the house within 1 degree of what the thermostat was set at except on single digit days it would be 4 degrees off give or take a few more
dave,
maybe try a new thermostat or is it new? like a honey well digital one. maybe try another pump like you mentioned....its weird that the temp is off like that? maybe close valves on both sides of pumps (while motor is shut off) unbolt motor and check (inspect)make sure they are not clogged with junk? just an idea I have seen stuff plugging them so they wont flow like they should.....
kelly
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The dealer just called me back. He said to try a new pump. It will not get past 72. And it struggles to get there. Maybe from having air in the lines and running air threw the pump it just made it weak. I sure hope that is all it is.
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Whats the differnece between the taco 007-F5 and 007-F7? I see some have flow check valves. Is it worth to get one equipped with this? Both are cartridge pumps, which dont seem like a bad idea for next time. I can switch everything out without taking the whole pump off? But both the F5 and F7 seem to be the same??
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It sounds like you need a bigger pump like a taco 011 on the boiler.. Buddy of mine went through the same thing as you.. The bigger pump solved the problem.. No issues.. I wouldn't get what the dealer told you
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The wilo I have now is only a 1/15hp. Im looking at the grundfos 15/58 3 speed. I am also looking at the 011s. Not sure which one I want to get. Both seem real good
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When they say a pump max psi is 125, does that mean it always runs at 125psi? I have the flow control valves and I think the max psi for them is 125psi. Some of the pumps I am looking at go well over that. Most around the 150psi mark. Maybe I am limited to what i can get pump wise....
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Im also liking the Grundfos 15-55 with the digital read out. I like the way some of those pumps read out the GPM and watt usage. The taco bumble bee is pretty neat also. Would both of these pumps be sufice? Either that or I will have to pony up $233 for the Taco 0011. Remember my pumps are not on the boiler they are in the basement. I have a 55ft run per each loop from the stove to the pump.
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Im also liking the Grundfos 15-55 with the digital read out. I like the way some of those pumps read out the GPM and watt usage. The taco bumble bee is pretty neat also. Would both of these pumps be sufice? Either that or I will have to pony up $233 for the Taco 0011. Remember my pumps are not on the boiler they are in the basement. I have a 55ft run per each loop from the stove to the pump.
$189.99 for the taco 011 pump on altheatsupply.com..Shipping is 15.27 to delver in my neck of the woods
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The wilo I have now is only a 1/15hp. Im looking at the grundfos 15/58 3 speed. I am also looking at the 011s. Not sure which one I want to get. Both seem real good
Dave,
I run grundfos 15-58 and like them I have had no issues with my set up they are only 2.5 years old...Kelly I leave them on speed 3....I am running them on 1 inch pex with no trouble. longest run I have is from boiler to house 75 feet one way...no issues.....
chariot-supply sell them for 86.99 free shipping on ebay out of ny
kelly
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When they say a pump max psi is 125, does that mean it always runs at 125psi? I have the flow control valves and I think the max psi for them is 125psi. Some of the pumps I am looking at go well over that. Most around the 150psi mark. Maybe I am limited to what i can get pump wise....
Dave, I'm pretty sure the 125psi number you are referring to is the maximum allowable pressure of the system you are trying to circulate water within and has nothing to do with the circulating abilities of the pump. For example: if your domestic hot water was set up with recirculation, your household pressure might be as high as 60 psi but the pump moving the hot water around the loop doesn't really care.
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So running a pump higher than the flow valves max psi wont hurt anything? Thats my concern
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Im also liking the Grundfos 15-55 with the digital read out. I like the way some of those pumps read out the GPM and watt usage. The taco bumble bee is pretty neat also. Would both of these pumps be sufice? Either that or I will have to pony up $233 for the Taco 0011. Remember my pumps are not on the boiler they are in the basement. I have a 55ft run per each loop from the stove to the pump.
$189.99 for the taco 011 pump on altheatsupply.com..Shipping is 15.27 to delver in my neck of the woods
Thats a better price than I found. Thanks! I think this one is my best bet
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So running a pump higher than the flow valves max psi wont hurt anything? Thats my concern
No it won't hurt anything. Those numbers are just a reference telling you the pump or flow valve will function properly in systems pressurized to that amount, just like all pipe has a safe working pressure. Again, when your pump is running, it isn't pumping at anywhere near 125psi. These pumps are just circulators that move water in a loop and only need to work against the friction of the pipe, fittings, etc. and the system pressure doesn't matter.
I'm guessing your system is non pressurized anyway and the water from your boiler is what circulates through either radiators, in floor tubing, or water to air heat exchanger.
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Thanks Matty for the reference for Alt heat supply. Saved me $40. Came to 204 shipped to my door. I called local dealers and they all wanted 290!! F that. I hope this helps. Now that I sit and think about it, the pumps are suppose to be on the back of the stove where as mine are in the basement and have to draw 55ft one way. Those wilo crappers arent meant to draw like that then push the water threw the lines. Just dont have enough umph.. My dealer thinks that is the issue also. Makes sense.
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my taco 11 is in the basement...250 feet form the owb and pushes and pulls everything i need
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Thanks Matty for the reference for Alt heat supply. Saved me $40. Came to 204 shipped to my door. I called local dealers and they all wanted 290!! F that. I hope this helps. Now that I sit and think about it, the pumps are suppose to be on the back of the stove where as mine are in the basement and have to draw 55ft one way. Those wilo crappers arent meant to draw like that then push the water threw the lines. Just dont have enough umph.. My dealer thinks that is the issue also. Makes sense.
No problem Dave..Hope it solves the problem..I think it will..Like is said on other posts…My buddy a few yrs back He would have his house set and like 74 and it would only be 68 (running a 007 pump)..He bought that 011 pump..It solved the problem.. temps are right on..I found that alt heat supply has the best prices for taco pumps..You'll get a full catalog on what they sell with that pump….Keep us informed..
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Wow willie thats a long run. I never heard anything good about the Wilo pumps. Its been used and abused thats for sure. I put it threw more than I should have this summer after pipe install and running LOTS of air threw that pump. The 0011 seem real good for the money. I havent seen one bad review on them. And most of the reviews people seem to be having the same issue running smaller pumps with similar setup. After switching to a bigger pump there problems were solved.
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Well got the taco 0011 installed. A bit of a pain. The flanges needed to be turned so I could put the pump horizontal. They were a pita trying to twist them. I had to bleed the lines a bit but now just waiting to see if it will get to 74 in the house. I might try to open the flow control valve up a little bit and see if that helps. Its not really cold today so a cold day will tell if it really works.
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Well it got down to about 19 lastnight. All was fine but this morning i woke up and it sounds like air keeps running threw the pump. The house was about 1 to 2 degrees off. I cant seem to get the air out of the pump. All pipes are hot. I blead the baseboards. Now its 70 and wont go higher. Before with the smaller pump it struggled to hit 72. Im bout to give up on this thing....
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Is this something that will work itself out? Its quite as can be now but then it will start to make some noise like air is being pushed threw it?
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And here is a vid of when it starts to get noisy. It comes and it goes
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Dave, I have been following this thread hoping to learn something but am still unclear as to how your system actually works.
Do you have a pump at your wood boiler? (According to Hardy's manual an H4 comes with a Taco 009 Stainless)
Does the water from your Hardy loop through a heat exchanger? If so, are you backing up an existing pressurized system? Air elimination might be harder on the pressurized side.
A photo of your piping (not a close up) showing where your boiler water enters and gets distributed via your pumps would help the pros diagnose your problem.
Sorry if I missed something in a previous post.
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No my pumps are in the basement. Each pump has a 50ft run from the stove to the pump. There are no heat exchangers, just hot water baseboard.
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Dave, sounds like you have improved the situation with a larger pump. I'm thinking since your boiler water is what goes through the whole system the air should eventually leave but maybe someone more knowledgeable will advise. Hopefully that is the culprit and has been cured by now.
Since you apparently have plenty of pump to circulate the water, is the water hot enough?
The Hardy's look like nice units, your H4 should easily provide enough heat to drive you out!
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Yeah the stove should def help. Its 180k btu. Im hoping the little bit of air that is in there will purge itself out
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Hello to All:
I see that the Grundfos 26-99 variable speed set at medium is equal to the Taco 11. That gives a person the flexibility of going a little higher or lower.
About having air locks: I learned through experience that just venting the highest point in the system is not adequate. At every vertical pipe creates an individual area of concern. To finally resolve my issue with air in a closed system, I now have 7 air vents and one air-eliminator above the boiler output.
We are not quite to our season low but have had single digit temps more than once in the overnight hours. Average house temp is 72 while the shops average is 66. This has been the same since September of this year. Once ya get her tuned in you will love it.
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If I ever get it tuned in lol. Im to the point im about to have my oil boiler switched over to natural gas and be done with it. Between the new insulated lines and pumps ect. This is costing me a fortune. I just went and blead ever valve on my registers. It still sounds like air gets threw the pump, but only maybe once an hr. The pump has been running all day. You got me??? I give up at this point. Calling a pro to take a look at it. More $$$$$$ I gotta shell out.
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You need to force the air out of the lines using your domestic water pressure. That will involve putting in a cross over line and some valves but i refuse to do any radiant jobs without doing it.