Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: andyjs on December 01, 2013, 03:15:58 PM
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Boiler worked great when fired up in October but after last snow storm the snow melted the boiler is always on trying to catch up.losing 6 degrees from boiler to house and another 15 on return line when furnace is running.i know my lines suck but never had any poblems with it last year?any advice would be great.cant sleep at night now im always running out to boiler to check on it
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Sounds like an air intake problem. Is it opening properly?
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Your numbers aren't crazy, only losing 21 degrees on the whole loop? Why don't you try unplugging your pump and letting the boiler come up to temp. After that turn the pump back on and the boiler should easily be able to keep up until its out of wood.
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Burning wet or green wood?
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Burning green wood but I've always used green.did shut off pump and started back after boiler shut off it still fell on its face.intake is ckear .think its underground pipe got a 4ft wide path of snow melted.went with the cheap stuff.thinking about buying thermopex what's everyone think about the thermopex pipe?
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If the snow is melted that much, you just found your problem
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It sounds to me like what your describing the lines may be suspect, something must have changed that you didn't used to get the snowmelt before? Maybe there's water in the insulation of your lines now that wasn't there before from perforation in the insulation/drain tiling or did you have flooding? If the melting is new than something must have changed there?
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Yup, sounds like your line is showing you how good it works. Is there anyway you can access the inside of the lines, either at the house or the boiler? I made some homemade lines for part of my system and I made them so I could pull the lines if something went wrong. I used Logstor for my other lines because they weren't going to be accessible and they had to travel above ground for approx. 30'. Water is the killer on the Big O drainage tile lines.
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We got about 8 inches of snow and you could see a little bit of it melted but soon as it warmed up a wide path was melted now boiler is eating wood
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my home made boiler is 250 feet one way from my house...when my underground lines went bad i had a 4 foot soft gravel path all winter...my wood useage went up 4 full cords a winter but my boiler was always able to keep my house warm but it did take complete fillings of the stoe twice daily
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I used Insul-seal 4" PVC then pulled pex inside it.
http://www.insulseal.com/index.html (http://www.insulseal.com/index.html)
This was 9 years ago I don't know if many people do that anymore but it was what my dealer sold me back then and it has worked OK, anybody else use this or seen it? My lines cross my driveway with my well piping about 7 foot down under my driveway so they are deep, the water table is low otherwise that depth would not work. Kind of nice that you can pull the pex lines out if you had to, they are 90'd into the floor of both my boiler and utility room, hope I don't have to mess with that tho. Pretty straight forward installation, no idea how prices compare to Logstor (or similar).
Maybe something for you to look at but my guess is you're going to probably use some extra wood to get through to next year unless you can fix it now.
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I can access the lines but doubt I can pull them.its a 150' run its the Styrofoam halves taped together in 6" black tile
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Forgot to mention my pump is on high I'm losing 6 degrees pumping 19gpm
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I used Insul-seal 4" PVC then pulled pex inside it.
http://www.insulseal.com/index.html (http://www.insulseal.com/index.html)
This was 9 years ago I don't know if many people do that anymore but it was what my dealer sold me back then and it has worked OK, anybody else use this or seen it? My lines cross my driveway with my well piping about 7 foot down under my driveway so they are deep, the water table is low otherwise that depth would not work. Kind of nice that you can pull the pex lines out if you had to, they are 90'd into the floor of both my boiler and utility room, hope I don't have to mess with that tho. Pretty straight forward installation, no idea how prices compare to Logstor (or similar).
Maybe something for you to look at but my guess is you're going to probably use some extra wood to get through to next year unless you can fix it now.
I just put in 55 feet of insulseal last year great product. I read online for hours and with a bit of co min scene It was the best for my application. One keey feature I liked water will never get to the pipes that's the key. I didn't care if it was more work . I'm looking at the long haul . Fast install don't mean its a good product . I seen something very interesting about black drain pipe with my first install . Heat it up to 180f for year it shrinks and cracks It was the heavy stuff also. Maybe the newer stuff is better I don't know . It was a lesson learned . had to rip that out then Went with the spray foam trick I have 6 inchs close cell all around pipes with 3-4inch round rock under it .
My idea was if trench does get water in it for any reason water can sit at bottom and drain away also put heavy plastic covering over the foam and pipes . I have 2 runs 125 feet and 100 feet done like this ( its 15 years old still no problems ). 3rd zone is insulseal 55 feet. Funny part about this zone 55 feet from stove it heats a 28x48 house easy we even put smaller fans on exchanger to make it quieter have 2 of them assist fans for duct work like 900cfm total Its in a closet center of house not tied in to the furnace. It does work great . :thumbup:
Heat550
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Thats good to know Heat, I thought I was the only one using that product! My run is about 90 feet with the lower end being at the boiler so I put a short piece of clear hose in with the pex so I could vacuum out that end to double check if water was getting in, never has been any water and I check it every year at start up.
Putting some hot water through it right now for sure, had 11 below (F) this morning.
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Chimneys partially plugged
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Heat550, the specs for HDPE single wall corrugated pipe says its operating temp is up to 100-deg C or 212-deg F and it can take short term temps up to 120 C or 248F. How long ago did you install that pipe and how long did you use it? That is what my lines run thru and what you found kind of makes me nervous. I also don't run my stove that hot, 155 F range so maybe that will help. As long as the outer pipe stay solid and doesn't let any water get inside, the temp at the outer part of that pipe should be several degrees less than the boiler temp water inside the inner lines, do you agree?
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Heat550, the specs for HDPE single wall corrugated pipe says its operating temp is up to 100-deg C or 212-deg F and it can take short term temps up to 120 C or 248F. How long ago did you install that pipe and how long did you use it? That is what my lines run thru and what you found kind of makes me nervous. I also don't run my stove that hot, 155 F range so maybe that will help. As long as the outer pipe stay solid and doesn't let any water get inside, the temp at the outer part of that pipe should be several degrees less than the boiler temp water inside the inner lines, do you agree?
1996 I bought this corrugated pipe came in 2 thicknesses lighter and heavy I got the heavy ( will check tomorrow if i still have a piece or theirs a chuck of it still going though my cement blocks I could measure thickness . ) It was installed for only one season . and we have heavy clay here what happened the foam we used took on water . stove took alot of wood that spring we dug it up . In the low spot where more water collected black pipe had hair line cracks inside all the ribs and when you lifted it broke part and these cracks were also in the whole run and was full of water This was brand new full price pipe feeding pex al pex thru it wasn't all that much fun . stove was run at 180f we never boiled it either . But we had to replace grates because they sagged about 2 inches in one spot . To test next spring go to lowest spot and see if theirs any water if you can. and your right 155f makes it better . My understanding at the time was the rating on the pipe was not including saturated in water at 180f it was air temperature is were I was mislead . You know all the new stuff might be a lot better as they improve it as they go at the time in 1996 the dealers were as green as the buyers they have all come a longways sense then . So only worry if it takes to much wood .
Heat550
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Thanks for the explanation. I was going to check my temp drop at the stove, but its been so cold (low around 0 and highs upper teens) that either the furnace is running inside, or the boiler is running. Even that cold, the stove burns 10-12 hours easily on a wood load, so I don't think its waterlogged. I really don't have any way to check the low spot in the line either. I am trying to remember if it drops much where it comes in the side wall of my basement. But, I will keep an eye on this based on your experience.
I know what you mean about pulling pex al pex thru corrugated. I wrapped mine with 6 wraps of the techfoil insulation and also put a 1/2 inch pex fill line in there (unused). Was OK pulling the first 150 feet, but the last 75 feet was a bear!
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Thanks for the explanation. I was going to check my temp drop at the stove, but its been so cold (low around 0 and highs upper teens) that either the furnace is running inside, or the boiler is running. Even that cold, the stove burns 10-12 hours easily on a wood load, so I don't think its waterlogged. I really don't have any way to check the low spot in the line either. I am trying to remember if it drops much where it comes in the side wall of my basement. But, I will keep an eye on this based on your experience.
I know what you mean about pulling pex al pex thru corrugated. I wrapped mine with 6 wraps of the techfoil insulation and also put a 1/2 inch pex fill line in there (unused). Was OK pulling the first 150 feet, but the last 75 feet was a bear!
Yes its fine if your getting that long of burn.When ours got water on pipes I'm taking 4 hour burn at 20f so you don't have anything to worry about . Yes were getting a big cold snap last 2 nights -20f All I'm burning is wet ash wood My load of oak isn't here yet. :bash: . At -20 f I'm only getting about 5-6 hours per stove load My ash is only at 18 inch's so its a bugger to get enough in there . But I have quite a load on the stove heatmor 200css 5500 sq feet 2 houses shop, garage. and yes furnace and electric heat just kicks in when I wake up and back to the stove I go :o. oooo the joy of below 0f .. Couple weeks I will have my load of oak . 30 inch pieces split small will give back to my 10-12 hour burns . I miss them :-\ . Just getting back in the winter swing .
heat550
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Great, thanks for the info. I switch to hedge when it gets this cold and the burn times I gave you were with that. its good wood for this cold weather! oak hackberry and elm mostly when its milder around here.
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I pulled 2 pex al pex 1" lines through my Insul seal 90 feet, flattened the front of the pipes and drilled a hole and wired a rope to that, pulled it in with a little dawn dish soap on the beginning of it, I can remember being surprised how easily it went through even with 2 90 degree bends and a 45. I can imagine that corrugated pipe would be totally different tho Wood Nutt.
Heat you are having a Xmas delivery of a load of split 30" pieces of dry oak? Santa is being very nice to you!