Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: MaverickM23 on December 12, 2013, 08:22:30 AM

Title: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: MaverickM23 on December 12, 2013, 08:22:30 AM
On my newly installed Empyre Pro 200 I noticed Im getting a liquid like creosote mixture dripping out of the air box where the blower attaches. Took the blower off and found about an inch of creosote in there. Its not blocking the hole to the firebox but its thick on the bottom. Cleaned it all out and talked with my dealer and he said perhaps Im loading wood at the wrong time, before its all burned down. So I tried this past week to let it burn down further but Im still getting creosote in the air box, enough that I am cleaning it once a week. The one day I came home and the blower was on but the flapper was stuck shut, all it took was a slight bump and it opened but I don't know how long it had been like that. I cleaned it all off but its still getting covered. Now that its cold here I definitely don't want the flapper to stick shut. Anyone else encounter a problem like this? I am burning dry wood 12 to 18% and my return temp is never below 140. Other than that the stove is working great.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 12, 2013, 04:34:35 PM
I haven't had the door sticking shut or open. But do have the exact same slimy black goo all over my firebox. Sometimes it comes out the front door alittle and once seen just a tad out the gasser door. I have REALLY dry wood. Dead elm thats been dead for prob 7 years or more. Im putting wood in mine when its less than half full. I can't go all day now and I work 10 plus hours a day so fire it every 12-14 hours. Maybe I shouldn't fill it completely full?
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 12, 2013, 04:42:54 PM
I have the pro 400 and have not had any creosote out the blower.  I get a fair amount around the door frame but I scrape it everytime I load it to get rid of some of it.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Scott7m on December 12, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
Hey guys, if your on a schedule and can do this, try not to overload the stove

I understand we sometimes cant be on a schedule, but if you overload and dont let it burn down real well, youll have more creosote issues.   
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: MaverickM23 on December 13, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Belknap do you use pro former or anything? I get some around the door but like you I scrape it off when I load it. I do have the bottom of the stove where the pipe comes in insulated real well. Where is the stove supposed to get air for the blower. I noticed the right hand leg has a piece cut out of it but mine has some insulation in it, not sure if its to be filled in or what. What do you guys have with yours. Its been cold here lately like in the single digits and I hardly get any ash, its amazing how well it burns up when its cold.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 13, 2013, 02:58:15 PM
I have been using the pro forma and it seems to work good.  My tubes are always just fly ash and very little build up.  I did notice this last time I cleaned it that it was a bit more work I think because I am burning more now that the temp have gone down.  I think I am going to get the flue cleaning tool and I think that will make the cleaning a lot easier.  I was wondering the same thing about where the air comes from for the blower.  There is a hole on the side right near the blower and I was wondering if the air comes in there.  I should look around more just have not had the time.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 14, 2013, 06:59:32 AM
How often are you guys cleaning the gasser chamber? It always seems to have a bunch of coals in it. I have been trying to pull some out every day.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Scott7m on December 14, 2013, 08:53:18 AM
How often are you guys cleaning the gasser chamber? It always seems to have a bunch of coals in it. I have been trying to pull some out every day.

U dont have to pull them out daily I dont think... 

Always be gentle when scraping across the refractory

Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 14, 2013, 09:00:18 AM
ok thanks Scott, I dont ever have ashes really always just coals mostly that I take out. Maybe im always jumpin the gun on cleaning this thing. The tubes in the back never really have anything in them. Just very very little ash.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 14, 2013, 07:08:34 PM
I  have been cleaning the secondary burn chamber every other day.  I usually have just ash but make sure you clean it out before you move any wood around in the burn chamber.  If you do it after you will get a lot of coals.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 15, 2013, 04:41:46 AM
Whats your guys trick to cleaning the tubes in the back with that pipe/snake cleaner tool? The horizonal tubes are a breeze but the vertical ones are a mother to get that tool in and out. Bout wore me out yesterday lol and there wasn't hardly anything in them.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: beeman on December 15, 2013, 06:47:50 AM
now that its getting colder try turning it up to burn hotter say 180/185
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 15, 2013, 06:49:57 AM
Yes cleaning the vertical tubes out can be a bear.  I look at is as good work out.  I am going to buy the clean out tool for the cordless drill.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 15, 2013, 10:03:26 AM
Where do you guys buy your pro former from? I would also like to get the tool for the drill. Were can you get those from? I assume online?
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 15, 2013, 03:17:18 PM
I ordered my pro forma from Scott.  I ordered the tool from http://ecomfort.com/empyre-elite-xt-pro-deluxe-flue-active-tool-92366.html (http://ecomfort.com/empyre-elite-xt-pro-deluxe-flue-active-tool-92366.html)
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: MaverickM23 on December 16, 2013, 05:46:28 AM
Maybe Ill have to look into some pro former to help with the creosote. This whole weekend was cold with 8 inches of snow and everytime I checked the stove I could see drips of creosote coming out of the tiny drain hole in the lower part of the air box. Sometimes when I poked a wire up in it I would get a small rush of black liquid coming out. Dont know if its going melting it away or making more. Have you used pro former since you have had the stove or started later?
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 16, 2013, 03:46:55 PM
I have been using it since new.  I only got the boiler going at the end of October.  I have not seen any creosote dripping out.  I think the 400 might be set up a little different because I don't have a air box with a hole in it.  Is this where the blower mounts to?
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: MaverickM23 on December 17, 2013, 07:53:17 AM
Yeah its on the back and the blower mounts to it. Its not real big then it goes into the firebox through a smaller hole. On the inside of your firebox have you ever noticed some ash that looks reddish in color when your wood gets burned down? I get this reddish brown ash in the firebox where the metal meets the fire brick, just wanna be sure its not rust or something going wrong.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 19, 2013, 08:21:21 PM
I have not seen any ash that was redish brown.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 21, 2013, 05:51:18 AM
Yea, Mine is all light grey and alot of powder.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 21, 2013, 10:43:40 AM
I just got done cleaning the tubes on my pro 400 using my new flue cleaning tool and it made the job 100 times easier.  I ran the tool through a couple of time then I ran the brush through just to get any left over ash out and worked really well.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Scott7m on December 21, 2013, 03:22:33 PM
Your far better off doing the tube cleaning when it dont need it than to wait til u know its past time

I know as a dealer I test things but as a customer its best to stay ahead
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 21, 2013, 07:36:12 PM
I have been doing it every two weeks and that seems to work pretty well.  I did find last week that the boiler seemed to take quite a while to get up to temp and I was going through a lot of wood.  I started moving the ash around in the primary burn chamber and got some big chunks of real hardened ash off the brick which I think was restricting the nozzles.  It seems to be much better now.  I will  have to be sure and really keep moving the ash around and make sure I don't get that build up.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Scott7m on December 21, 2013, 11:12:51 PM
I have been doing it every two weeks and that seems to work pretty well.  I did find last week that the boiler seemed to take quite a while to get up to temp and I was going through a lot of wood.  I started moving the ash around in the primary burn chamber and got some big chunks of real hardened ash off the brick which I think was restricting the nozzles.  It seems to be much better now.  I will  have to be sure and really keep moving the ash around and make sure I don't get that build up.

yep, your learning some of the tweaks to make.  They can be different for everyone tho, different heat loads, different wood types, all plays a role in the fine tuning
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: frankus33 on December 23, 2013, 08:45:44 AM
About the back tubes, i welded a brush on a steel rod for the straight flue and use a power drill on the flexible rod for the vertical one takes about 10 min.

suck the ash out of the holes with shop vac after.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 23, 2013, 04:45:41 PM
I wondered how everyone was getting the ash out of the tubes when bushing the cleaning tool through the holes. There so long I just figured as fine as the stuff was when the fan kicked on again and the boiler fired up it would work its way up to were you stick the tool in?
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 24, 2013, 04:47:35 PM
tryed putting my drill on my tool I got today. Yea well it fubard that tool lol.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 24, 2013, 04:57:58 PM
What happened.  When I ran the tool through the horizontal tubes it would pull the ash out and I vacummed it out.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: ecc_33 on December 25, 2013, 05:01:15 AM
My "pipe cleaning tool" is maroon on the outside with a white looking plastic cable in the inside that runs to the brush. I stuck it down in the vertical tubes and the drill just wound itself up and didn't spin the brushes lol. Ah well I gave it a try. Now the red part comes apart from the white part and the white part goes down inside the red part when pulling the brush out of the tubes. still works just a big pain in the arse.
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Belknap on December 25, 2013, 06:56:56 AM
I bought the flue cleaning tool.  The brush is not made to go on a drill unless you clean out with the flue cleaning tool first.  I just ran the flue cleaning tool through a couple of times then ran the brush through by hand.  Here is the link for the flue cleaning tool that goes on a drill. http://ecomfort.com/empyre-elite-xt-pro-deluxe-flue-active-tool-92366.html (http://ecomfort.com/empyre-elite-xt-pro-deluxe-flue-active-tool-92366.html)
Title: Re: Empyre Pro 200 creosote in air box
Post by: Sprinter on December 29, 2013, 01:13:39 PM
Anymore ideas on what's causing the creosote even when temps are well above the 140 min.? Is it a cold spot that can't maintain the temp while the rest is fine?  Any reddish ash would be a sign of iron erosion.  I wonder if there is a design flaw in the water jacket not allowing even flow, or other condition causing the cold spot.