Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => Portage & Main => Topic started by: cowman on January 02, 2014, 06:35:17 PM
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We have an optimizer 250, this is our second season with it and we are having trouble with it gasifying since the ice storm we had right before Christmas. We have cleaned out the ashes and have about 4-5 inches of charcoal under the wood. We are burning dry wood. The slot is clear of ashes and has a good air flow. We are going to be in the negative temps tonight and several nights in the coming week and would really like to get it running in peak performance asap.
Thank you for any suggestions that you may have, thank you!
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How does your nozzle look? I had trouble with mine gasifying when the nozzle was deteriorated.
Also, that seems like a lot of coals. When I have a lot of red coals and throw more wood on, it doesn't have a good secondary burn because it can't supply enough fresh air to burn all of the gasses.
What size wood pieces are you using?
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Keep the ash and coal bed down to less than three inches, let the wood and coal bed burn down more before adding wood.
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Our nozzle deteroirated last season. Doesn't seem to be this year so far.
Do you take the red coals out then?
Burning pieces 3-8 inches diameter.
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No , simply adjust how much wood you put into the fire box, the goal is that when you need to add wood there is a bed of coals and ash, the ash for the most part will be on the bottom and the coals on the top, take out enough coals and ash to bring the level down to about 2 inches, shaking the shovel back and forth will allow the coals to fall off the shovel inside the firebox and put the ashes in a metal bucket for the garden later
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It is gasifying again this morning. Ryan thinks he knows what it was doing wrong. He also turned the fan down this morning. It did keep the house up to temp last night even with sub zero temps, so it must have been working properly last night too. But yesterday during the day, it wouldn't and the house was getting pretty cold. Thank you for the tips and suggestions, we are certainly still learning how to operate it properly.
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IKeep an eye on your water temps at the boiler if they are under 140 it wont gassify for awhile.
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It is gasifying again this morning. Ryan thinks he knows what it was doing wrong. He also turned the fan down this morning. It did keep the house up to temp last night even with sub zero temps, so it must have been working properly last night too. But yesterday during the day, it wouldn't and the house was getting pretty cold. Thank you for the tips and suggestions, we are certainly still learning how to operate it properly.
Can you share what might have been going on that it wasn't gasifying?
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I am new to the forum but have been using the boiler for 4 years. This year through Slim Jim's tutoring I finally got it figured out! I was doing it all wrong. I was building fires with little wood and loading logs on top. I was wanting a big bed of coals to put my logs onto thinking it would burn better that way. If there were only a few coals left I would add a bunch of small wood to get the fire going well before adding big wood ....ALL WRONG! Now with only a scant covering of coals over the nozzle ( sometimes I might only have a couple still glowing) I put in the biggest piece in that I can find, right on top of the nozzle! I load small stuff to the sides and then another big one in the second row to take the place of the first and so on. The unit is gasifying within 2 minutes every time. Build your fire upside down - biggest piece on the bottom! I know it goes against what we think is right but it works!
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I found using round wood will last a lot longer than split, maybe a moisture thing, I dony know.
I loaded last night around 7ish with all 5" to 6" round pieces and at 230 this afternoon had to add a few.
Temps down to minus 8 this morning.Been doing this for the last few nights and its been working very well.
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Thanks, I could not have said it any better, I do appreciate all the help that you guys have been doing, as you can surely understand with this cold snap of 6 weeks or more I'm out straight and don't have much time for the forum.
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Hello all. Brand new to this forum, or any forum for that matter. But, I just wanted to relate my recent experiences regarding my Optimizer 250 so others may learn.
Firstly, I am very experienced with a gasification boiler, having used an Alternate Heating Systems boiler for 7 seasons. With that boiler, the ash blew out into a cyclone separator, so it was never necessary to remove ash from the fire box. Thus, it seemed reasonable when I was told that it was rare to take ashes out of the 250 fire box. I suppose my expectation was that they would be removed from the lower refractory chamber. Also, I was told that it was necessary to maintain a good bed of coals. Additionally, the furnace came with a rake, so it would seem reasonable, that the rake would be used to pull the coals to the top, and let the ashes settle to the bottom.
The problem with all of this, is it doesn't work.
After weeks of frustration, experimenting with more air, less air, different adjustments to the primary and secondary air, and concluding that air adjustments make very little difference at all, I finally got in touch with Brian from the factory, who did a really, really good job of calming me down and reassuring me that we could make it work.
He referred me to Jim, and within a few minutes, told me that all of the above was wrong. He said, to simply take a flat bottom shovel, shovel right to the bottom, ashes are on the shovel, coals on top. Tip the shovel, and allow coals to fall back into fire box, then discard ashes from shovel. Simple as that. He said 2 or 3 inches of coals are all that are required. I would venture to say 1 to 2 inches is fine.
It's like a different machine. Works much much better. Gasified immediately. Even at very low water temperatures. He told me other things, like how to load the wood, and that has been mentioned elsewhere, but I don't think it's as important as the ash removal.
So, I am a bit annoyed. Wouldn't it be better educate dealers and customers on how to operate these furnaces? And wouldn't it be better to supply a flat bottomed shovel rather than a rake?
In conclusion, I am generally satisfied with the boiler. I am a little nervous, about the mild steel rather than the stainless, like my previous boiler. But I have been assured that as long as my water chemistry is correct, all will be well. Unfortunately I have no idea what that is. I sent a sample with my dealer months ago and have heard nothing.
And finally, is this the best boiler ever? I'm not sure, but it is no longer the worst.
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Welcome! Glad to hear you have got it figured out. I am interested to know why you went away from the wood gun? Looks like a real nicely built unit.
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wet or green wood will actually allow it to gasify more. There will be more wood gas produced and once your chamber is hot enough it will ignite. I have run scale models and have had my wood supply smoldering and not actually burning, smoke pours into the 2ndary chamber and once its hot enough it takes off like a tiger torch.
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You are right astro about the green wood, however the high moisture content is not good for the boiler, a good mix in high heat demand works very well but dry in the shoulder seasons please!
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fireman,
im also a new 250 owner/operator and had alot of the same frustrations as you. this site is a great help as well as talking w/ slimjim who is a dealer/trouble shooter for p/m. i do agree strongly it would be nice to have a quick video on the workings of the stove for a new owner. it doesnt have to be fancy, but something is needed to help people, which in the long run would avoid some heated emails and phone calls. from previous stories it seems like the first season w/ the furnace is all learning and gets easier after that. somebody did post an excellent saying on the board for this stove, "i need to remind myself daily not to mess w/ the stove, just feed,talk nice to it nicely and walk away" it does seem to work pretty well. there are many 250 owners on this site, so just post a question or concern, someone will be able to help. good luck.
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Thanks willowbk, looks like we got the issue solved in allentown without me having to go there, Thanks Karl K , I will call you when I know more about a trip your way.
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Slim, why does the green wood work well in the wood gassification process? Does it slow down the unnecessary off gassing of the wood during idle times? A lot of the 'smoke' you are seeing when green wood is off gassing is steam( or water) which is not burnable gas.
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This is my 3rd year with this unit and I love it. I did have one little issue the first year with it not gasifying correctly but it was just operator error and it was solved the day it was discovered. I have actually found the more I leave it alone, the better off it runs. Outside of brushing the tubes every few weeks, I just throw wood in it and forget it. Letting it burn to the point of no recovery is the best method for consistent burns.
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Hondaracer, you hit the nail right on the head, the wood does not charcoal as much with greener wood so it does not build that bed as deep.
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Brian told me to keep my PH at 9. My stove came with 1 bottle of stove chemical. I added that to my rain water and the ph came up to 8.9 and I have tested it yearly and has stayed the same. Brian said to send a sample in yearly but I have a tester and don't think that I want to spend the money every year for shipping. With my stove cleaning the vertical tubes and creosote build up especially in the fan box are the biggest problems. A blast of fire and smoke when filling with wood also not nice at all.
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Check my posts. You likely have a sticking air intake. I would suggest taking your box cover off about a dozen 5/16 screws, mine gets water and creosote build up and won't work properly or not at all. Moist air causes the water to condense in the heater right around 0 C If not that is your refractory clean and your pipes all clean. If I where to do this again I would buy a updraft heater.
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How many years have you been running the 250? Have you not seen the posts about air leaks and upgraded rope gaskets/ reasons why manufacturers require a water sample each year.