Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Farmer85 on January 18, 2014, 06:33:05 PM
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I have a brand new system installed in 10-13. I bought an earth rancher 365 and the pre-made pipe from the dealer. I guess earth makes it? It's on there website. Against my better judgement especially when he unloaded this stuff and I saw how cheap it was really made. I dug the ditch myself and back filled with screenings ( just coarser than sand). I had a bad feeling about this but the ditch was dug and project on its way getting colder by the day. So I just wanted to get on with it. Well needless to say my pipe is now full of ground water and efficiency went way south. 3 months of use for $1200 is about how I figured this would happen!!! The only good thing is this pipe comes into my crawl space first and I can drain it out. I'm sure the screenings aren't helping this matter but I was extra careful installing. Now my insulation is probably trash. The factory of coarse won't even talk to me about it and now I'm just screwed. If I can keep this drained off and meanwhile the ditch settles and lets more rainwater shed away do you think I will manage? I think I know the answer just hate to hear it. Any other options? Let this be a lesson to anyone reading thinking about using the cheaper pre made piping. DON'T !
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Try bringing the pipe up higher in trench so its out of the water maybe it will dry out enough to get you thru the winter
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Try bringing the pipe up higher in trench so its out of the water maybe it will dry out enough to get you thru the winter
How??????? If he is going to have to dig up the pipe he might as well put logstor back in the trench.
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Try bringing the pipe up higher in trench so its out of the water maybe it will dry out enough to get you thru the winter
How??????? If he is going to have to dig up the pipe he might as well put logstor back in the trench.
[/quote That is the best.
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Iam thinking some don't have 1200$ in the middle of winter and it would be warmer in the spring!
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Iam thinking some don't have 1200$ in the middle of winter and it would be warmer in the spring!
I guess, but I would really be kicking myself if I had to dig that same trench 3 times.
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That stuff that earth sells isnt worthy of the ditch it goes in as far as underground piping. No way would I do an install using it
If your going with logstor or thermopex, def go with the logstor, for 1 buck a foot more its twice the pipe.
We retail thermopex for 11.90 ft and logstor for 12.90/ft. We ship it everywhere so if you dont have a local supplier let me know and ill try my best to help you out.
U did get the earth stuff with fiberglass in it right?
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Something as simple as new pex and foam wrap would be the cheapest way to temporarily get you by. There is also a method to salvage your existing pipe, but you HAVE to dry it. The final wrap has to be waterproofed, this is the key to any supply pipe. Line the trench with landscape fabric, then a waterproof plastic-ice&water- shower pan bridge support lines and have it spray foamed. There is a cost per foot analysis and step by step on hearth dot com sticky section of the boiler room.
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Yes it's the stuff earth sells. 2 -1" pex 1-1/2" pex and a Romex cable. Wrapped 3 times with a foil back fiberglass. I thought if anything it wouldn't be as efficient. I didn't think it would leak groundwater in. I drained it out in my crawl space. It just so happens to be the lowest spot in pipe also and it's not eating wood now. It was horrible. If anybody ever thinks about using this stuff do yourself a favor and give 1200 dollars to charity and smash your hand with a hammer. You'll feel better at the end of the day. The bad thing is I read this forum before and researched this stuff beforehand. I hadn't really read anyone having this bad of luck. Well I did. Again don't do it
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I've NEVER seen one of those off brand homemade underground lines perform like they claim. Best I've seen was within a month of install and it still showed a 10-12 degree loss at 5gpm flow. Turn it up to 8-10 GPM and the loss is cut in half or gone. But that's how they trick you. And when they burry it deep it also hides the snow melting.
Acceptable temp losses are >1 degree per 100' of line at 5gpm in 1" pex and 180supply temp. The honest manufacturers provide all test data conditions. We have yet to see any magic product perform or last like logstor, Uponor or central pex. Unfortunately this happens way too often and you have zero support. Like many others have learned, pay a little now or pay a lot later. It's the OWB industry motto too often.
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You could dig it up, rip the insulation off of it, slide some plastic sheeting underneath of it and spray foam the pipes in the trench then wrap the plastic back over the foam and cover it with dirt again. The spray foam needs to be closed cell so it can't absorb water and you'll have a permanent solution that works as well as even the best commercially sold product out there. You can get a spray foam kit for about $500 but you might need more than one kit depending on your length of run. I used 2 kits for my 85' but I dug a 12" wide trench and used at least 3" above and below my 1-1/4" lines with an inch or so separating the lines.
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Leave it above ground better then in the water!
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I have a brand new system installed in 10-13. I bought an earth rancher 365 and the pre-made pipe from the dealer. I guess earth makes it? It's on there website. Against my better judgement especially when he unloaded this stuff and I saw how cheap it was really made. I dug the ditch myself and back filled with screenings ( just coarser than sand). I had a bad feeling about this but the ditch was dug and project on its way getting colder by the day. So I just wanted to get on with it. Well needless to say my pipe is now full of ground water and efficiency went way south. 3 months of use for $1200 is about how I figured this would happen!!! The only good thing is this pipe comes into my crawl space first and I can drain it out. I'm sure the screenings aren't helping this matter but I was extra careful installing. Now my insulation is probably trash. The factory of coarse won't even talk to me about it and now I'm just screwed. If I can keep this drained off and meanwhile the ditch settles and lets more rainwater shed away do you think I will manage? I think I know the answer just hate to hear it. Any other options? Let this be a lesson to anyone reading thinking about using the cheaper pre made piping. DON'T !
farmer,
sorry to here about this not the same brand but my father enlaw had the same problem last winter, do to really small rocks cut external of pipe...and water filled line and drained in basement......this fall we pick up dro pipe I think it's call its 8 inch hard pipe a light blue with oring sealed.....dug up pipe drained it out and then slid it in the dro pipe works well now with no problems....dro pipe you can get 45 angles also.....maybe something to think about instead of buy complete new pex piping.....I will make shure that's the real name of the pipe it comes in 12 foot sections looks like water pipe that towns put in....real reasonable as well....
kelly
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Guys, how many times do you have to read the unsolicited testimonials of people who have tried to cheap out on the pipe only to dig it up and replace it with quality pipe like Logstor. This is THE most important part of your heating system, just because you don't see it does not make it less important, Scott and Yoder, how many times have we driven into a customers driveway to see a brand new dually pickup truck that costs 60,000 dollars or a new ski boat and absolutely no reason for it except as a staus symbol and go into the basement to find a piece of crap broken down heating system, when you hand the customer the estimate they say they can't afford that much money, can you patch it up? When my son bought his first pickup it was a beater that he kept dumping money into it and I told him the same thing I was told as a young man, Son you can't polish a terd.
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Sorry to hear about leaky pipes, I am unfamiliar with the Earth pipe stuff - ran Uponor (cause family member works there); but how about this for a war story/NIGHTMARE.
Was on a job site in Northern MN, large campus that over looks Lake Superior, went to bury lines from boiler to building starting digging trench and WHAM hit bedrock 2' down! So to try and get the pipe deeper, blast a channel thru rock lay pipe (had to splice to lengths together cause buildings were like 400' and of course up hill. No problems the first 2 years, then all of a sudden we get a call in the 3rd spring, they had a geyser in the mechanical room. Apparently the splice had broken or leaked causing water to enter the jacket, at that point was higher than the boiler room, so water comes rushing down the hill, in the jacket and erupts into the boiler room, NOT A FUN FIX or CHEAP
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Logstor, 567 feet per roll, order what you want, no junctions under ground, 1 inch inside diameter, run it above ground if you like and it will not melt the snow, never had a failure with it and I have no Idea how many thousands of feet that I have installed, I will not use anything else!
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Yep, I am kicking myself now, it's not even the digging back up part or the 2 days I spent raking my yard out and planting grass. It's the 1200 dollars I spent on shi@. Again I expected a bit more heat loss. Truth is wood is free and I thought for twice the price even if the heat loss is 20% more, which I doubt, wood is free. Having said that with a line full of water it's about 80% more and 1200 dollars gone. Earth won't even return a call. I at least would like to let somebody know they are screwing people over, it would Sure make me feel better. But for now I drained it out in my crawl space, which I hate but at least my efficiency went way back up. I was burning 5-6 wheelbarrow loads of solid wood a day in 40-50* weather. Not cool. And just to reiterate on this, my earth stove is great so far and if you look at the piping from there aspect. They have no idea how it was installed or how rocky the ground is. It's just a shame I'm the victim.
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I looked at Earth products and really liked them. The reason I went with a Hawken is because they are manufactured locally, about 60 miles north of where I live here in Michigan. I wanted to know if I had a problem with my OWB, and they weren't willing to work with me to resolve it, or worse yet, failed to return my calls, I could haul it back up there and put it thru their office window! It wouldn't get me my money back but it would sure make me feel a lot better!
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Scott,I will be putting in a little over 150' of line in the spring,how much to ship to Wisconsin? After reading these horror stories I'm sold on the logstor. Let me know.
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Farmer, are you telling me you didn't read my thread or look at the pics? Your tile looks a little heavier but the insulation on it is not even remotely acceptable. At least the pipe from the Amish guy was a bubble wrap type. There is no way that fiberglas insulation can work in any kind of damp let alone wet environment. I would just run the logstor on the ground until spring. Or run temporary lines using 4" plumbing pipe and foam pipe wrap insulation above ground.
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4078.0 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4078.0)
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Scott,I will be putting in a little over 150' of line in the spring,how much to ship to Wisconsin? After reading these horror stories I'm sold on the logstor. Let me know.
Ill pm you....
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Agreed Cantoo, wheres that darn like button!
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Reading this forum costs you next to nothing. Our advice here would have been worth a quick $1200 though. I suggest you do some more reading and you'll end up doing less spending and less cutting of wood. I read tons of threads long before I spent a nickel on my setup, so far so good too. I also think I saved a lot of money and got the most bang for my buck on what I did go with. There is also bad advice on forums too so you have to wade thru the crap. FYI, the Canadians can be trusted.
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Yes they can, they have never attacked us, we tried to attack them at least once and got our ars kicked, it's all history.