Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Scott7m on January 26, 2014, 10:16:27 PM

Title: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 26, 2014, 10:16:27 PM
I didnt narrate this video so ill explain what was going on!

I hsd burned some coal in the stove over our several days of -10 and colder weather.   Well coal builds a big coal bed and can still burn for days after you quit adding it, having not added coal for 24 hours I dug deep into coal bed freeing everything up and pulled some of the glowing red chunks up in a pile! 

Well, this is what burning coal can look like in an owb designef to do so, a huge amount of heat comes off the blue flames

(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/th_20140126_215033.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/albums/t387/Scott7m/?action=view&current=20140126_215033.mp4)
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Roger2561 on January 27, 2014, 03:32:16 AM
My dad used to call those blue devils dancing across the hot coals.  Roger
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Boydz on January 27, 2014, 06:49:27 AM
I really have been wanting to try burning coal, especially on these really cold cold days lately. When its -7 with a 30mph wind, I am loading the stove about every 8hrs depending on wood type and Coal would be so much nicer.
However, being in Northern IL, my options are limited. They have coal mines in southern IL for Bituminous coal but its 5hrs away. 70/ton picked up I think. I could try the bagged Anthracite from a local dealer but that's 300/ton.  Maybe Ill just get a few bags and see how it goes for grins :D
What kind of coal are you burning ? how large ?

Thanks for sharing Scott.

-Ryan
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: fryedaddy on January 27, 2014, 06:56:46 AM
I burned some coal mixed with wood last year.

It really gained heat quickly and cut on my wood usage as well. Haven't tried it this year
but I may look into getting a truck load next year.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 27, 2014, 07:29:05 AM
This is just ky lump coal.  It varies in size from softball to basket ball or bigger.  I just set it on edge and split the big pieces with an axe.

So if I have a piece 12" thick ill split it into 1-2 inch thick sheets and throw them in
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: juddspaintballs on January 27, 2014, 02:59:51 PM
I need to experiment with coal again.  My first couple attempts didn't work out so well but I think I know why and how to fix it. 
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: concordprof on January 27, 2014, 04:08:23 PM
Some of you know that my burn times have been terrible lately so...

Could someone tell me why I couldn't add a small amount (shovel full) on top of my ash bed/wood coals and en add some wood to help my burn time in subzero weather. Btw, I have a cb 4030.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 27, 2014, 04:17:51 PM
Wont help likely, coal needs to get air under it, not just around it.  What youll end up with is a firebox full of partially burned coal.  It cant burn smothered in ash, must have forced draft up from below
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Mountain Duck on January 27, 2014, 05:51:45 PM
I know there are many variables, but if you had to take a guess, a pickup load of lump coal would = how many loads of quality seasoned hardwood?

I haven't looked around much, but found it delivered for $180/ ton.  I'm in Southwest VA, but still about an hour from coal country.  Need to research a little more.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 27, 2014, 06:08:57 PM
I know there are many variables, but if you had to take a guess, a pickup load of lump coal would = how many loads of quality seasoned hardwood?

180 per ton is on the high side.

About double really

Let me pull together some numbers

I haven't looked around much, but found it delivered for $180/ ton.  I'm in Southwest VA, but still about an hour from coal country.  Need to research a little more.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 27, 2014, 06:13:43 PM
Ok...  for example. 

Wood is roughly 8500 btu per pound, no matter the type whether its pine or oak

But figure in moisture content of 25 % and your quickly under 6000 btu per pound

With coal, it varies but some coal is over 15,000 btu per pound

Coal dont have the moisture issue so we could easily say pound per pound coal is at least twice as good

But it seems like more to be honest, its amazing how well it burns and how long and hot
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: MD20/20 on January 27, 2014, 06:42:53 PM
Why can't I get coal to burn properly in the 325G? Whats the lowest I should set the differential? I only have access to 2-4 inch anthracite "stove" coal.

And Scott, my Broeder is squealing a bit, so I finally need to get a new pump.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 27, 2014, 07:46:52 PM
Why can't I get coal to burn properly in the 325G? Whats the lowest I should set the differential? I only have access to 2-4 inch anthracite "stove" coal.

And Scott, my Broeder is squealing a bit, so I finally need to get a new pump.

anthracite is hard to get goin, but ur chunks are a little small. Owb like lumps.  If its mild and your stove is cycling a lot youd have to lower diff to 5 or less, and I always mix with Wood

Wont be long if its squealing!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: MiHawkeye on January 27, 2014, 08:01:05 PM
Can you burn coal in a gassifier? I've read differing opinions on this.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 27, 2014, 08:33:43 PM
Can you burn coal in a gassifier? I've read differing opinions on this.

no, what could you do with the clinkers?  With no shaker grates theyd instantly plug the nozzles
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Mountain Duck on January 28, 2014, 06:39:45 PM
Thanks Scott.  I think I will definitely have some coal for next year.  When you figure (even with the best of intentions) the typical OWB   wood quality may be less than optimal (at least part of the burn season), I'd say your 6000 btu/lb is rather generous.  I know I can really tell a difference when I load up high quality locust, oak or hickory.  It burns HOT, and will put those 12-15 degrees back in short order.

Where are you in KY?  Wondering how far I need to drive to find a reasonable price? 
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: kybaseball on January 28, 2014, 08:14:14 PM
I live in Shelby County and have found some really close to me and not a bad price.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on January 28, 2014, 08:18:59 PM
Im in eastern ky, coal just to the east of me is $80/ton
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: yoderheating on January 28, 2014, 08:38:55 PM
 Hills trucking in Galax sold coal in the past. Not sure how far that would be for you.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Mountain Duck on February 10, 2014, 06:45:38 PM
Well, I've looked and called around local.   Seems a lot of people have quit selling coal in just the last couple years.  Found some in Bristol, TN.  It was $180/ton.  He said he was the only guy in town still selling coal.  I bought a ton just to see how it does so I can make plans for next year.    I'm going to expand my research.  If I can save $100/ton, I might can afford a little diesel to head to eastern KY. Talked to a guy at church yesterday who's business deals with mining.  He said all the active mines in VA right now are deep mines, with no strip jobs currently running, and that was driving the high price locally?

Anyhow....if I'm still mixing with a fair amount of hardwood, do I need to lower my differential significantly?
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Boydz on February 10, 2014, 10:59:24 PM
Well I finally went and picked up the only coal they sell in my area. Its bagged Blaschak Anthracite (Rock hard and shiny) from North East Pennsylvania in the Nut size. 40lb bags and pieces are about the size of chicken nuggets :D
I bought 30 bags to play with and shook my ashes down pretty low, cleaned the ash tray, and threw on 2 bags to the hot coals. I lowered my Differential to 5deg swing from 180 and added a few pieces of wood on top. I will say that this coal lasts a very long time for the size of it but the issue Im having is that it seems to burn so hot that it fuses together and sealing off the grates if not shaken every 6-7hrs or so. I have very little smoke and the heat is amazing, almost so intense I cant keep the door open to long when its on the first couple cycles. I have had no issues with it going out but when it seals together and blacks the airflow, it slows way down and has trouble keeping temp until I still it and then it takes off again like rocket fuel. Im sure it can easily go 24hrs on a couple bags with my heat load, but trying to keep it stirred is a chore. Im wondering if a bigger size would be better ? Doesn't seem to leave many clinkers or anything.
Im also wondering if maybe slowing the airflow down might help it from reaching the fusion point ?

Maybe Ill try the softer Bituminous coal from southern IL and see how that burns. I've heard its more smoky, messy but cheaper too.

So far, not overly impressed but im sure I can make improvements. Plus it been in the Neg temps outside non stop pretty much.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: yoderheating on February 11, 2014, 05:47:05 AM
 The best way I found to burn smaller coal like you have is to throw a couple sticks of wood in the middle and pile coal around. The wood will burn up and leave air "vents" by the time the coal becomes a solid mass and needs shaking up.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on February 11, 2014, 06:53:01 AM
I'm excited to try some coal next season!  I'm going to make some calls around here to see what I come up with.  I think this area is all bituminous coal.  Heck, i may try to throw some in this year!  Glad I got this stove!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Boydz on February 11, 2014, 09:27:52 AM
Thanks Yoder - that's a great suggestion !!. Simple too  :bash: :bash: :bash:
Maybe Ill cut some blocks of oak and intermix them instead of just heaving it full on top.

John, I say go for it this season so your dialed in for next :) !!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Mountain Duck on February 12, 2014, 07:00:29 AM
Great balls of fire!!  Have been burning coal for two days now.  I can see how it would really cut wood consumption.  I put a 5 gallon bucket worth of softball size lumps in Monday evening, and half of bucket of the sweepings from my truck bed yesterday evening.  Just guessing, but I have probably only used a "half load" of wood over this period.  Running a 6 degree differential, but it seems to climb and additional 3-5 degrees after it shuts off.  Went out late last night just out of curiosity.  Opened the door to a HOT, blue flame fire.  I can't believe how much hotter it burns than wood!

Oh, you've never seen a "starved for air fireball" door opening, until you've seen a coal fired one!!  Very stupid, and very lucky on that one!   :o
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: slimjim on February 12, 2014, 07:06:01 AM
Glad you didn't get hurt!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: fryedaddy on February 12, 2014, 08:29:43 AM
Be VERY careful, especially when opening the door during a burn or even loading the stove.

A had a few blisters after throwing some in on top of a burning fire. Almost looked like fireworks.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Boydz on February 12, 2014, 11:16:43 AM
I'm getting the hang of this. Not using any wood right now.
Pretty cool. Just experimenting.
The lack of smoke always makes me
Think it's out, but its not.
Also dialed my draft back to 1/2 way open and this has helped with it fusing together and sealing the grates.
Fun fun fun !!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: andyjs on February 12, 2014, 12:12:20 PM
I have a 10000e what temp and diff should I run with coal.I'm getting some this week wanting to try it out.cold temps are eating up my wood!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Mountain Duck on February 12, 2014, 12:40:59 PM
Andy, I'm running 175 with a 6 diff. I think Boydz said earlier he was running a diff of 5. It does seem to go 3-5 degrees beyond set cutoff.  When I've been able to watch it cycle, it recovers very quick and does not run very long.  With an all wood fire, and a diff of 10-12, mine takes a while to get rolling, and often drops another 3-5 degrees before it starts raising the temp. 
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: andyjs on February 12, 2014, 12:54:01 PM
Are you mixing it with wood? Any advice how to mix with wood ?
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Mountain Duck on February 12, 2014, 01:46:37 PM
Are you mixing it with wood? Any advice how to mix with wood ?

Yeah, I'm mixing right now.  I've let my wood burn down to a good coal bed, to the point I was ready to load it back up.  I then put a 5 gallon bucket's worth of lumps in the hot wood coal bed.  Then I add 3-4 good size halves or rounds of hardwood. Still in the learning phase, so don't take my advice as the gospel!   ;D
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Scott7m on February 12, 2014, 01:58:16 PM
 :post:.
Are you mixing it with wood? Any advice how to mix with wood ?

Yeah, I'm mixing right now.  I've let my wood burn down to a good coal bed, to the point I was ready to load it back up.  I then put a 5 gallon bucket's worth of lumps in the hot wood coal bed.  Then I add 3-4 good size halves or rounds of hardwood. Still in the learning phase, so don't take my advice as the gospel!   ;D


 :post:
Play with it folks :)
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Boydz on February 12, 2014, 03:19:45 PM
Yeah - Mountain Duck nailed it.

I lowered my temp to 175 with a 5deg dif. It overshoots by like 6deg once it shuts off. Recovery is quick. I'm just playing now with Coal only to see if I can get it to burn without wood and not go out. I've been burning wood with it pretty much like what's stated above.
This anthracite is kind of picky - but clean clean clean. hard to believe shiny little rocks can produce so much heat.
Stuff isn't super cheap however. Least not in Chitown  O0
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on February 12, 2014, 03:53:06 PM
I started making calls around the mines today. You guys have me all worked up on coal! Gotta give it a try! And of course, next week is supposed to be in the 40's!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: jnicol6600 on February 12, 2014, 04:44:35 PM
seems like a no brainer. I,ll have try some. I've been fighting short burn times with my h2 in this cold.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: suzukidad on October 13, 2014, 02:12:08 PM
Seems odd to me...but why would you want to buy coal when wood is free?
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: artbaldoni on October 13, 2014, 05:08:22 PM
Where do you get "free" wood?
I work my ass off for my free wood!  >:(
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Sloppy_Snood on October 13, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
Seems odd to me...but why would you want to buy coal when wood is free?

Try this:

1.  Chop a few cords of free wood & assess your fatigue level.
2.  Run a pickup over to a local coal mine or supplier and have them dump 1 ton of washed coal in your truck for $47 & assess your fatigue level.
3.  Assess individual burn times for for "100% wood" and "100% coal" loadings in the same outdoor wood-burning furnace.

An answer will become apparent if you assess these items correctly. ;)
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on October 13, 2014, 06:55:00 PM
Seems odd to me...but why would you want to buy coal when wood is free?

You get some longer burn times and it makes that precious wood pile past longer for a relatively minimal expense. If the coal was much more than $150 a ton, it wouldn't be worth it.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: stratton on October 14, 2014, 02:54:45 AM
Hi all, Ive been mixing 1/2 anthracite 1/2 wood in my ds 3200 indoor boiler.Its a no brainer coal RULES !!!! Increases burn times a great deal, .FYI ive been selling 200-300 crds a yr for over 25yrs now.Access to wood is easy but my new love affair with coal is hard to discribe. Just love opening the door for a quick peek!!!!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: mlappin on October 14, 2014, 07:39:36 AM
You guys and your coal are going to make Al Gore cry.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Sloppy_Snood on October 14, 2014, 09:11:51 AM
....uh... gentlemen....

not sure what "coal" is?  Me and CountryBoyJohn,,,, well we burn (will burn in my case) "black, compressed vegetation nuggets." (http://maxima.org/forums/images/smilies/bunny.gif)

Please make a note of it. lol
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on October 14, 2014, 09:37:14 AM
Well said sloppy.  We Hoosiers don't burn coal in our OWF's.  That would be illegal.  We burn compressed petrified organic remains.  Or black wood.  Or magic black rocks.     :bag:
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: Vincent Paul on October 15, 2014, 05:17:47 AM
Well John, our unit is being delivered this week and we have coal on our property, Christmas is early for me this year!!!!
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: mlappin on October 15, 2014, 06:43:31 AM
We burn compressed petrified organic remains.      :bag:

Well now you went and did it, local code enforcement will want you to get licensed and permits as a crematorium.
Title: Re: Burning a little coal
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on October 15, 2014, 08:09:08 AM
Well John, our unit is being delivered this week and we have coal on our property, Christmas is early for me this year!!!!

Fabulous!!  Get er hooked up and burning!!  Let me know if you have questions!