Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: harley on February 07, 2014, 01:28:21 PM
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Anyone ever use the foil wrap underground insulation. Ive been told that if you don't poke a hole in it, it works good.
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There are a lot of different products out there. Some are good and some are not.
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There is such a huge difference in cost. I know you usually get what you pay for, just wondering if anyone has used this product before. Is there different types of foil ? Im Fairly new to all these products
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whats ur total per foot,,with the best of this stuff,,,hose and all????
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145 Foot
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$14.50 a ft?????
that must be good stuff then
I have this stuff from P/M,,,very hard plastic liner, on the outside,,,all urethane on inside,,,6 inch thick,,, very very hard to puncture a hole in this stuff, 2-1inch lines running in center of it,,,1 inch space in betwwen them ,,never seen better stuff than this,,really never looked either...
I believe tis what I paid,,it has been yrs ago now,,
which website can we a pic of ur stuff
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Franky1 what I ment was I need about 145 feet. Did you use the five rap in the black field pipe
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5 rep???? no idea sound stupid now,,,,me
this stuff was from Denmark,,,not made in N America,,,,,,
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I have the foil wrap, 60 feet outside then 50 inside of house. Never put a temp gauge on return line but every once in awhile ill grab it where it goes thru the basement wall back out to stove and its always nearly as warm as infeed side. Ive had mine for 4 years, no issues. I go 14 hours between fills on work days (I work a 12 hour swing shift). Good luck with whatever you go with!
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Welcome to what I think is the leading cause of owb system complaints. Sometimes you do get what you pay for. Do a bit of a search and you will see some pics of failed installs using these types of wraps and drainage style tile. Do a huge search and see if you can find any that show failure using Logstor or thermopex. The wrap type can work but you better have excellent soil conditions with proper drainage, put it in another pipe etc.
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This is the best for foil wrap pex pipe. http://z-supply.com (http://z-supply.com)
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Please read the foil manufacturers recommended install guidelines and ratings. If the foil does not have ASTM rating then it's not even good enuff to be used as toilet paper. It's intended and design use is in a wall cavity and only meets it's stated R (usually .5-3.2) value with a full 4 or 6" dead airspace on 1 side. So multiple layers DO NOT add R value like glass or foam.
There is an article called Double Trouble with the Foil "ed" Bubble.
A simple test you can do is put a piece of the foil insulation on the ground and right next to it put a similar thickness of foam board on the frozen ground. Stand on them barefoot. I rest my case
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LIKE CANTOO.....post.
Even the duke can touch his return, I don't think you'll be holding onto a 150 plus degree line more than once.
What I am finding is water in these fancy rapped lines. Yet there is not leak or whole or puncture. When an air space sees fluctuating temps, condensation forms. And it fills the airspace. I have not seen it much where the ground is all sand and dry, but if there is a high water table or wet soil, its not if but when. And I have never seen anything perform anywhere near the high dollar pipe with proper flow. This being 4' per second or less.
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LIKE CANTOO.....post.
Even the duke can touch his return, I don't think you'll be holding onto a 150 plus degree line more than once.
What I am finding is water in these fancy rapped lines. Yet there is not leak or whole or puncture. When an air space sees fluctuating temps, condensation forms. And it fills the airspace. I have not seen it much where the ground is all sand and dry, but if there is a high water table or wet soil, its not if but when. And I have never seen anything perform anywhere near the high dollar pipe with proper flow. This being 4' per second or less.
It is not condensation. Unless you have airflow through the pipe it is impossible for air to generate water. Even if the trapped air is at 100% humidity it couldn't do more than a thin film.
If water gets inside it is from an outside source. Most likely a leaking fitting or was improperly installed / damaged and ground water getting in.
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I used the z-supply 3 wrap for my outdoor hot tub, the run is only about 40' from the house, I buried it carefully with sand and also the run is not prone to ground water problems. I have had zero problems, wish they would have had the 5 wrap when I bought mine. One nice thing about z-supply is they cut the length you order so you don't need to buy more than you need. One thing that cut my shipping costs down was to ship to a business address rather than a residence, I would check on that regardless of what you buy if you are dealing with shipping.
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I used the z-supply 3 wrap for my outdoor hot tub, the run is only about 40' from the house, I buried it carefully with sand and also the run is not prone to ground water problems. I have had zero problems, wish they would have had the 5 wrap when I bought mine. One nice thing about z-supply is they cut the length you order so you don't need to buy more than you need. One thing that cut my shipping costs down was to ship to a business address rather than a residence, I would check on that regardless of what you buy if you are dealing with shipping.
I purchased the 3 Wrap double tiled from the z supply and don't regret buying it one bit.
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I've only seen the foil wrap one time and it was a poor job at best. It was loosely wrapped and was in regular field drainage tile, which I know for a fact has holes in it.
Does the z-supply use a purpose made tile or is it just a drainage tile? And what is the "double tiled" is this a tile in another tile?
I made a section of my own using 1" pex, gray 1/2" thick foam insulation wrapped with red tyvek tape and then put inside a 4" pvc sewer pipe, glued bell ends. It's only about 35' long and seems to work well. It's sloped towards my basement just so I can tell if any water enters the system and so I can replace the lines if it does fail.
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I've only seen the foil wrap one time and it was a poor job at best. It was loosely wrapped and was in regular field drainage tile, which I know for a fact has holes in it.
Does the z-supply use a purpose made tile or is it just a drainage tile? And what is the "double tiled" is this a tile in another tile?
I made a section of my own using 1" pex, gray 1/2" thick foam insulation wrapped with red tyvek tape and then put inside a 4" pvc sewer pipe, glued bell ends. It's only about 35' long and seems to work well. It's sloped towards my basement just so I can tell if any water enters the system and so I can replace the lines if it does fail.
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Visit their website for details. Stuff is extremely strong, I ran a spare piece over with my tractor and it didn't crack it I couldn't believe it.
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I took a quick look victor but it really doesn't say much about the white tile other than the fact that they use white to help see holes. I'll take another look.
I was fixing a water line today outside, I was using 1" pex and when I went to cut it with my cutters it split in half. Didn't give me a warm and fuzzy feelings for sure.
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I've only seen the foil wrap one time and it was a poor job at best. It was loosely wrapped and was in regular field drainage tile, which I know for a fact has holes in it.
Does the z-supply use a purpose made tile or is it just a drainage tile? And what is the "double tiled" is this a tile in another tile?
I made a section of my own using 1" pex, gray 1/2" thick foam insulation wrapped with red tyvek tape and then put inside a 4" pvc sewer pipe, glued bell ends. It's only about 35' long and seems to work well. It's sloped towards my basement just so I can tell if any water enters the system and so I can replace the lines if it does fail.
[/quote
Visit their website for details. Stuff is extremely strong, I ran a spare piece over with my tractor and it didn't crack it I couldn't believe it.
The outer pipe on the Z supply 5 wrap is quite a bit heavier than the 3 wrap.
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This is the best for foil wrap pex pipe. http://z-supply.com (http://z-supply.com)
I have Z-Supply 3 wrap and I'm 106ft to my house from my boiler and another 30 feet across my basement and its works great. I also used double tile.
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I took a quick look victor but it really doesn't say much about the white tile other than the fact that they use white to help see holes. I'll take another look.
I was fixing a water line today outside, I was using 1" pex and when I went to cut it with my cutters it split in half. Didn't give me a warm and fuzzy feelings for sure.
What brand of pex? And I'd love to see pix of split or cracked pex. There are some OWB companies using/supplying fake pex. The ASTM numbers don't correlate to anything poly ethylene cross link tubing. Pex can and will become brittle if exposed to UV for a long time. Growers/greenhouses are one example that could see this. But a wirsbo ,watts name brand still takes a very very long time.
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Sprinter, it was HydronX the red 1" stuff. I was repairing a black poly water line to my barn. The galvanized fitting had corroded and water started coming up thru my driveway. Line was only about 40" deep but man was it frozen all around it. It happened right at the T where it goes to my other house. The connection is about 25 years old. I replaced the galvanized fittings with poly reducers and a T brass fitting and a couple pieces of the Hydronx. It was about -20 C and the pex line was sitting on the snow while I did the repair. I was using the blade style cutters and as soon as it cut the edge the rest of it broke in half the rest of the way. I blame the cold and not the pipe. I warmed the pipe up a little bit with a touch before I crimped the fittings. Good news line is fixed and hopefully lasts another 25 years ( I'm 51) so my son will get to deal with it.
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I've only seen the foil wrap one time and it was a poor job at best. It was loosely wrapped and was in regular field drainage tile, which I know for a fact has holes in it.
For a fact, not all of it does, you can get solid tile as well for use around trees. You can also get sand tile, has teeny pin pricks for water entry, standard tile with the slits or even muck tile that has 1/2" to 5/8" holes drilled in it, looks like leech bed pipe actually.
I've installed all of them over the years, have our own wheel trencher and do all our own drain tile installation.