Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
Outdoor Furnaces - Manufacturers WITH EPA-Certified Models => HeatMaster => Topic started by: yoderheating on February 24, 2014, 08:21:09 AM
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Well I am going to burn a G100 for a while this spring. Should be an interesting experience. I burned a G200 several years ago but Heat Master has done some major improvements over that time so it will be nice to compare. The G100 is rated the cleanest burning batch wood nonflex fuel outdoor furnace on the market today. http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html (http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html)
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Do you think you'd be up to posting some pictures of the tube exchangers? I keep hearing how they are different than everyone elses, but the website doesn't open any of the doors except the firebox and the ash area. Can you post some pics of the middle door on the front and the backside of the stove?
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The tubes run vertically so posting pics of the bottom door or the loading door will not show them to you. The back of the furnace looks similar to almost any other heatmaster furnace without the fan and draft assembly.
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The tubes run vertically so posting pics of the bottom door or the loading door will not show them to you. The back of the furnace looks similar to almost any other heatmaster furnace without the fan and draft assembly.
Kinda like the Eclassic uses?
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Not quite like e classic
These have tubulaters that turn to keep the pipes clean etc
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So far so good. Its been below freezing and I managed to get a couple of sticks of wood in it after burning it all day. I'm thinking 50% less than any regular furnace I've burned before.
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PICS PICS PICS PICS !!!!!
Video Video Video Video !!!!
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PICS PICS PICS PICS !!!!!
Video Video Video Video !!!!
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:post:
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I just got a iphone so maybe I can learn how to do all that. Give me a few days though, need to be home in the daylight.
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What kind of stack temps are you seeing?
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What kind of stack temps are you seeing?
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There about as low as we can safely go, I spoke with Lauren this morning regarding his stack temps and he said u can hood ur hand in exhaust for a long time... that tells me it's likely below or at 300.
I know on various stoves I could just about guess how hot it was from feel after I did it a while
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Until somebody comes up with a condensing final HX like a gas furnace under 300 is good I'd say. I'm not gonna even try to hold my had over the stack on ole smoky. Self employed so no workers comp. ;)
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Until somebody comes up with a condensing final HX like a gas furnace under 300 is good I'd say. I'm not gonna even try to hold my had over the stack on ole smoky. Self employed so no workers comp. ;)
Yea there basically at the limit as far as exhaust temp goes
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I've never seen stack temps this low. On a traditional furnace you couldn't even hold your gloved hand over the exhaust. So far I've burned less than half the wood I normally do.
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How do they expect manufactures to get even MORE efficient if we are already at the lowest stack temps we can get? Are they supposed to filter the smoke after that? This is nuts (as if we already didn't know that!)
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How do they expect manufactures to get even MORE efficient if we are already at the lowest stack temps we can get? Are they supposed to filter the smoke after that? This is nuts (as if we already didn't know that!)
That's the point.... it's a power play, they really don't care about the enviroment
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But they are not even going after efficiency right now. You could run a gasser with no heat exchange tubes and pass the test I guess.
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How do they expect manufactures to get even MORE efficient if we are already at the lowest stack temps we can get? Are they supposed to filter the smoke after that? This is nuts (as if we already didn't know that!)
They really don't care if it is impossible, people who burn wood are too independent. Government can't get em on the tit until they find a viable way to take away yet one more aspect of being self sufficient.
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Last night is was in the teens here. Filled the furnace up about 2/3 of the way which is a couple arm fulls of split wood. Went out this morning to a bed of coals and one stick left. Through in about 8 small pieces and it started gassifing immediately. I think I'm burning less than half of the wood I did with any of my conventional furnaces I've burned over the years.
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Last night is was in the teens here. Filled the furnace up about 2/3 of the way which is a couple arm fulls of split wood. Went out this morning to a bed of coals and one stick left. Through in about 8 small pieces and it started gassifing immediately. I think I'm burning less than half of the wood I did with any of my conventional furnaces I've burned over the years.
Thats the reason I'm looking at replacing mine with a gasifier. I have time to cut wood, but also have a lot of other things that time could be spent on.
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Soooo.... What about efficiencies ? Meaning, If I am using a 10Ke now and wanted to switch, would a G400 be enough ? Its about 1/2 the BTU output of the 10KE from what I remember in the Documents.
Would this thing just be running non stop then and burning more wood anyhow? I sure don't feel like I'm using 500kBTU of the 10K but when its super cold, it doesn't shut off much heating 3 separate space and a total of around 5000 sqft. Granted, 1/2 that # is well insulated space and kept at only 45deg.
Is this new design more or less picky on wood type, size, moisture etc ? I like the idea of the unit, just concerned that it may be more of a pain to prep the wood and all.
What about costs ? Are they expensive for the gassers ?
Thanks for sharing all your experience.
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I really hate to comment to much on a G400 simply because I've never even seen one much less watch one in action or use one.
It seems from burning this G100 that the BTU output is about what they say it will, I am confident it would not put off as many BTU as a MF3000e. But then again you are also looking at a firebox about 40% the size of a MF3000e. My burn times were a bit longer with a MF3000e but I'm now burning half the wood. It seems that these gassifiers work best when having to work hard, in other words you need a smaller stove when using a gasser and then fill more often.
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Update for this morning. I was a little worried about last night because I had put in one chunk of wood ( maybe 20 inches long and 14 inches wide0 that almost filled the entire firebox yesterday about 3pm. A little later that evening I was able to add a couple small pieces above it but I was worried about that one big one but you never know until you try. I went out 12 hours later this morning to find a nice bed of coals. Stirred it up with the poker provided and added 3 sticks of wood for today. Last night it was about 15 degrees here.
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So the G200 would be equivalent to somewhere between the mf3000 and the mf5000 in BTUs for a 12 hour run time correct? Most people I think need a MF5000 or equivalent size for their btu load and a 12 hour run time. Most people don't want to be married to their boiler and have to feed it every 8 hours. I think that is why Europe does batch burning with large water heat stores. They run their gassifier wide open at night for 4-5 hours and heat up their heat store to last until the next night.
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As a comparison I burned a MF3000 several years ago and could easily get 12 hours of burn time on my home. I think the G100 is slightly less than what I did with that. I don't think I would want to run more than 12 hours with this G100 when its below 20 degrees like it is now. But keep in mind I'm also burning half or less wood then I did in a MF3000.
I haven't run the new style G200 but if it operates similar to this G100, and it should, I would say you are right. It should be somewhere between a MF3000 and a MF5000.
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Also we sell more MF3000e models than anything. For a 2,000 sq ft home that is the real trick. I could get 14-16 hours on it at my home. For the normal home of 2,000sq ft to 2,500 sq ft I would think the G200 would be perfect for 12 hour burns. I would size the G100 for homes of 2,000 sq ft or less if they are well insulated. I'm heating 1500 sq ft of poorly insulated space.
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I agree that the benefits of less wood consumption are great BUT if you can't get 12 hour burn times out of the stove it really hurts argument to go to one. I think this is where a water heat sink could be used to fix this problem. Many of us on here have an owb because we have large, old and semi insulated home which require the btu load of a new 4000-5000k square foot properly insulated and air sealed home.
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The thing with these gassers are that to pass testing they really need to be run wide open with small amounts of wood. There are really two things in play here, first testing and meeting that 2020 standard and then the other side if usefulness in the field.
I would like to burn a G200 at some point and see how it does. This G100 is heating my 1920's home of 1500sq ft and doing it on a twice a day fill. So its not doing a bad job in my mind, much better than I expected going in to this test.
I would much rather run a convention furnace from the standpoint of getting those 24 hour burn times. I plan on installing a MF10,000e or one of the new C375 over on the new home we are moving to ( 2,500+ sq ft built in 1911). I'm sure a G400 would do it but I want to be able to burn coal.
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Yes the fire boxes are small to make them cleaner to pass the darn epa test, was speaking with a guy about it this morning
In regard to batch burning, it wouldn't do much good to add more storage to this unit, it's not possible for it to hold any more wood so if you did have storage it might rub wide open for 4 hours, but then you need to reload it so what does that accomplish? Nothing in my opinion
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Scott, Max BTU output is 120k for the g100 correct? That means that if you heated a large heat store, say 500-1000 gallons for 4 hours wideopen at 120k per hour you would store 480k btus or somewhere about that? Home that requires 50k btu per hour would last 10 hours + on that heat store? 50k btu is pretty high for a heat load correct?
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Gassers need a good coal bed to burn cleanly. The first few hours of a new fire you do not get a good burn. I'm not sure large storage with a burn once a day will be the answer.
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We all agree that the amount of btus needed is the same regardless correct? If the burner needs to run 6 full hours to store enough btu to last 24 hours then you run one full firebox then a half a firebox. This keeps you from needing to load every 8 hours.
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Yes the fire boxes are small to make them cleaner to pass the darn epa test, was speaking with a guy about it this morning
In regard to batch burning, it wouldn't do much good to add more storage to this unit, it's not possible for it to hold any more wood so if you did have storage it might rub wide open for 4 hours, but then you need to reload it so what does that accomplish? Nothing in my opinion
Not to derail the thread (much) but if a person was building their own and damn the emissions the fire box could be larger and not affect the gasification process?
I don't mind twelve hour burn times, the one I built will run much longer if you fill it, but seems more efficient if I load for 12 hours at a time. Load it up at night, then check in the AM and adjust the amount i add. If it's warmer out I may leave it go to burn the coals down and get ahead of the ashes.
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I guess you could discuss that with the EPA after the regs pass. ;D
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"We have to pass it to know what's in it." - Nancy Pelosi
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I guess you could discuss that with the EPA after the regs pass. ;D
Maybe I misunderstood what I heard somewhere else or it was just false, but I thought homebuilt were exempt.
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I have no idea, I didn't see that when I read it but then again I wasn't looking at it. Legal or not I feel certain there will be plenty of homemade ones out there after people can't buy what they want next year.
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Honda racer, my numbers were just in theory
With a stove that gets these kinds of numbers and emissions down to .07 vs most gassers at .32
There isn't a lot of room for improvement during the down time in my opinions.
Look at some garnish customers, I know a few, even with 1500 - 2000 gallons of storage this winter a lot of them are firing twice per day.. I donno about you but I don't like building a new fire and going through the kindling process. I'd rather load and forget it
I just don't see where u think all the extra btu will come from, let's look at it like this for example.
5 cubic feet of wood, let's say it weighs 40 pounds
Moisture content is 20%
That means 344K btu, instantly reduced to 275k btu by moisture content
Now if the furnace can capture 80% of what's left.
We are down to 220k btu of actual usable heat
If our heat load is 30 btu per hour, u got about 7 hours worth
If you could put those 7 hours in a tank u r still out of wood.
Now it may hold more than 40 pounds depending on the type and how it's cut, but those numbers were just rough ideas
I know when I ran the XT100 the firebox was very small
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Scott7m, what kind of cost on the new G units
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G100-$7,500 G200-$9,500
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In 2015 do I under stand you will only be able to buy G models or can you buy the 350,000 plus btu models
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The latest and most credible info I've seen says there will no longer be a btu loophole as there is now in certain states
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Scott7m Thats interesting
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The info I've see will not allow large furnaces of any kind. Unless its changed there is a cap that large gassifiers will not even be able to meet. Scott, is that the way you read it?
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The latest and most credible info I've seen says there will no longer be a btu loophole as there is now in certain states
This commercial-sized BTU threshold is set by the individual states, not the EPA. ;)
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If the EPA doesn't allow them it ain't happening no matter what the individual states want.
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If the EPA doesn't allow them it ain't happening no matter what the individual states want.
Incorrect actually. :-[ The EPA Phase II program is voluntary. ;)
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Sloppy, go over to the general section and read up on the new epa regulations coming. You are a little behind in your knowledge.
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lol, shewwww. ::)
Come on folks! We don't deal with this stuff daily and not know what's going on
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Hahahaha gotta love people. I almost caught myself wishing sloppy knew what he was talking about. I would kiss him if was right! :-* :-[
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Yea I'd be right behind ya
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Gassers need a good coal bed to burn cleanly. The first few hours of a new fire you do not get a good burn. I'm not sure large storage with a burn once a day will be the answer.
I've been looking at a lot of different stoves as of late and can't recall the brand but one of them suggested using charcoal to start or restart your fire, would get a bed of coals a lot faster that way.
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I guess so but I don't want to buy charcoal any more than I want to buy oil or gas or pay the electric bill.
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I was thinking dollar general charcoal, maybe 2 bucks a bag. Long as you don't let it go out, shouldn't have the cost of a 12 pack in charcoal by winters end.
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I though we discussing large storage that would require restarting it every day.
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I though we discussing large storage that would require restarting it every day.
I don't know :-\
Threads jumped around quite a bit.
I was thinking more of the first start and keeping it going.
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Gottacha, yea that may work. Depends on how much gas is put off by charcoal I guess.
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Well it looks like tomorrow I will finish up my first pickup load of wood in the G100. I think I fired the furnace on Feb 24. In my old furnace I was getting as much as 10 days out of a load of wood.
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Well it looks like tomorrow I will finish up my first pickup load of wood in the G100. I think I fired the furnace on Feb 24. In my old furnace I was getting as much as 10 days out of a load of wood.
Wow, that's awesome! With my current system I have good through 1.75 cords since February 24. I can't wait until next year!