Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Coyote556 on February 24, 2014, 08:30:55 PM
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Yahoo news
http://news.yahoo.com/federal-wood-burning-rule-prompts-rural-backlash-161516423.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory (http://news.yahoo.com/federal-wood-burning-rule-prompts-rural-backlash-161516423.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory)
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — A federal proposal to clean up the smoke wafting from wood-burning stoves has sparked a backlash from some rural residents, lawmakers and manufacturers who fear it could close the damper on one of the oldest ways of warming homes on cold winter days.
Proposed regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency would significantly reduce the amount of particle pollution allowed from the smokestacks of new residential wood-powered heaters.
Wood-burning stoves are a staple in rural homes in many states, a cheap heating source for low-income residents and others wanting to lessen their reliance on gas or electric furnaces. Outdoor models often cost several thousand dollars, but indoor stoves can cost as little as a few hundred dollars and sometimes double as fashionable centerpieces in homes.
Some manufacturers contend the EPA's proposed standards are so stringent that the higher production costs would either force them out of business or raise prices so high that many consumers could no longer afford their products.
"There's not a stove in the United States that can pass the test right now — this is the death knoll of any wood burning," Reg Kelly, the founder of Earth Outdoor Furnaces in Mountain Grove, told Missouri lawmakers during a recent hearing.
More than three dozen Missouri lawmakers have co-sponsored a bill that would symbolically fight back against the EPA by declaring that "All Missourians have a right to heat their homes and businesses using wood-burning furnaces, stoves, fireplaces and heaters."
View galleryDarwin Woods stokes the fire in the wood burning stove …
Darwin Woods stokes the fire in the wood burning stove that he uses to heat both his home and water …
This past week, a Missouri House committee endorsed a revised measure that proposes to ban state environmental officials from regulating residential wood heaters unless authorized by the Legislature.
Missouri appears to be one the first states to introduce legislation in response to the proposed EPA regulations. But concerns over wood-stove pollution and regulations also have been simmering in other states, including Utah and Alaska.
States such as Washington and New York already have adopted stricter emission rules. And last fall, New York's attorney general led a coalition of seven states in a federal lawsuit seeking to compel to the EPA to adopt new emission limits on wood-fired boilers, which heat water that is piped into a home's radiator system.
The EPA's existing regulations date to 1988 and don't apply to all of the different kinds of wood-burning devices now in use. Under a proposed rule change released last month, the EPA would give manufacturers five years to meet standards that would reduce emissions by an estimated 80 percent.
The EPA has scheduled a public hearing next Wednesday in Boston, and the sponsor of the Missouri legislation plans to travel there to make his case.
View galleryDarwin Woods checks on the fire in his wood burning …
Darwin Woods checks on the fire in his wood burning stove that he uses to heat his workshop Friday, …
"What they're doing is unnecessary, and it comes against our American values and our traditions," said Rep. Tim Remole, a Republican who has a wood stove at his rural Missouri home.
There are about 12 million wood stoves in U.S. homes, including about 9 million that are less than half as efficient as the newer stoves, according to the EPA. The agency's proposed rules would not affect stoves already in homes.
Most people who own wood stoves have other means of heat, such as electric or gas furnaces. But about 2 percent U.S. homes rely on wood as their primary heating source — a figure that has been rising over the past decade.
Darwin Woods, who owns a farm near the small central Missouri town of Clark, said his 12-year-old outdoor wood stove heats both his home and water. Though he wouldn't be forced to upgrade the stove, Woods views the proposed EPA rule as an intrusion.
"It's just another way for them to control my life and lifestyle and basically force me to pay more for just survival," Woods said.
View galleryDarwin Woods carries his chainsaw to cut up wood for …
Darwin Woods carries his chainsaw to cut up wood for his wood burning stove that he uses to heat his …
Others point to the negative health effects from burning wood. The fine particles can worsen asthma and cardiovascular problems, ultimately leading to earlier deaths, according to the American Lung Association.
In Utah, Republican Gov. Gary Herbert has called for a winter ban on wood-burning in an attempt to improve air quality. The Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation has also proposed its own emission requirements.
But some homeowners "want to keep their fireplaces to have a way to heat homes and cook food in the event an earthquake cuts gas lines and power," said Erin Mendenhall, a Salt Lake City council member and executive director of Breathe Utah, which is offering to replace wood stoves with gas units.
The National Firewood Association, based in Duluth, Minn., says some of the pollution from wood-burning stoves could be reduced if people would burn only aged wood rather than wood with too much wet sap.
"A properly burning wood fire — there's virtually no smoke or smell," said Executive Director Scott Salveson.
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I'm from SE Missouri and this article was on our local news the other day.
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I read this earlier today. Makes me sick to think all the city folk and suburbanites know what it takes to heat an old farm house. I did not and do not have the funds to build a new efficient home. Where I live there is no natural gas line. If you want to stay warm and alive you choose propane ($5/gal), electric ($0.15/Kwh) or wood ($10/cord). I cut my own wood on my land so for $100/ year I can heat my home and water. Even if I buy a new saw each year it is cheaper than the other options. My rights can easily be squashed by someone 20 miles away that is more "educated" than me. My pollution is the problem? Mining for coal, burning coal at the electric co., gas drilling, propane delivery must not add any particulate to the air. Just my phase II wood burner. But my neighbor with a fireplace that emits smoke non-stop and draws their warm air up the chimney when not used is efficient and ok.
Yep, I see that I AM the problem. What was I thinking? Clearing dead wood from the forest making room for new trees, recycling God's original renewable fuel, saving money like MSN always suggest I do, getting exercise to try and stay healthy and keep health care costs down. Shoot me now, I AM Public enemy number one!
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AWESOME POST, LIKE BUTTON?
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WoW! That is a great post. Where does all this nonsense end. I'm starting to believe you don't really own your land. Trying to change the way I choose to heat my home. Now I have surveyors without my consent on my property from Sunoco. The first thing the Sunoco land man told me was Sunoco can file eminent domain for a pipeline through my hay fields and right through my yard. Now I have to spend money on an attorney to try and keep a high pressure gas line away from my home.
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U know what, I wish we lived in a time where if they came on ur land u could blow there damn head off.. I'm sorry, I know this won't sit well with many folks but I, me, my business are all under attack and I've had enough bs.
We are stripped of our rights more and more and more and more everyday and I'm just tired of it..
Anyone ready to revolt?
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I got your back General Scott. Lead on
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Scott, everyone in our neighborhood received a letter that Sunoco has eminent domain rights and can come on your property and survey and do an environmental impact study. I told them to stay off my property and then got a temporary restraining order to allow them access. When I looked out and saw them on my property my blood boiled. Now they plan on running a high pressure 16 inch line through my yard 100 feet from my house. I can't imagine how much this devalues this property. They told me they would make a nice offer and I told them that they can't make me a nice enough offer. I get to work this land and pay the taxes but I really don't own it.
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U know what, I wish we lived in a time where if they came on ur land u could blow there damn head off.. I'm sorry, I know this won't sit well with many folks but I, me, my business are all under attack and I've had enough bs.
We are stripped of our rights more and more and more and more everyday and I'm just tired of it..
Anyone ready to revolt?
Yes sir. Sign me up!
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You don't own anything Rock. Pay cash for something, and don't pay enough or continued taxes set by others, IRS takes it from you. You have land someone else wants, you lose. The junky down the street wants your big screen and takes it, that's ok too. He's a victim. Just because you earned it, does not make it yours. May I interest you in Ocean front property in Wyoming? How about a pretty bridge?
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I agree, the man who works all his life and plays by the rules is made a fool of. By the way, I have my concealed carry license and a loaded gun in every room of my home. I'm just waiting for a home invasion. I cannot believe that it has come to this.
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Like I said before, only a revolution will gut these idiots and get back on track to the way the constitution was meant to do. Protect individual freedoms. Common sense should be common law. And eminent domain should imprison and hang everyone who has or tries to use it.
This would be WAY cheaper for the govt, if they just inspected only the OWB's that receive complaints and educate or give them an approved model. It cost millions to write and pass federal laws. Oh and that's what the govt is supposed to do, help its people.
However in another twisted way they will give you $5000-$8000 for your pellet , solar system in some of the blue states. That's some big dough, and I've never ever seen those rebate/incentive type systems in a low to middle income home.
Just like the average income for that electric volt car was $268,000. Sure they needed $23,000 in combined rebates to buy a E-car.
I'm late on my gas bill and 3 days after the due date I get a shutoff notice over $79 bill. Yet get on the inner city heat program and I can leave my doors wide open heat at 78-85 , yup see it too often. And not pay anything or less than $19/month.
It's all about controlling the people.
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Like I said before, only a revolution will gut these idiots and get back on track to the way the constitution was meant to do. Protect individual freedoms. Common sense should be common law. And eminent domain should imprison and hang everyone who has or tries to use it.
<snip>
Unfortunately, eminent domain is constitutional. It's in the fifth amendment.
How it's been expanded to allow the taking of private property by the government so it can be developed into a shopping complex is absurd, but the concept itself is explicitly constitutional.
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Yes, believe me, I checked into this and consulted my attorney.
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I just got done sending my representative an email. Everyone do this and encourage others to do it! If you can figure out how to post on here you can figure out the email. Be kind and courteous and remind them election time will be here soon enough! ask them their stance on the issue and tell them to please not sidestep the question and answer it simply and honestly.
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Sluggo, voting in someone else just makes it their turn at the trough. In this day and age that really is an empty threat. Unfortunately it's the way everything seems to be going. Stupidity reigns. We ( the working class) are slowly being bled to death, death by a thousand cuts. The only thing that seems to get better and cheaper is computers, why is that? Every other single thing seems to be going up in price. And everything that is made is made to last a certain amount of time, then it is cheaper to replace it than to fix it. Look at muscle cars like 69 cameros, mustangs whatever, do you actually think that 40 years from now someone will be fixing or driving a car that is built today?
What do they plan on doing with all the wood from ice storms, snow storms, winds, tornadoes etc? I know grind it up using tons of diesel (that's clean) and put it on flowerbeds. Wait I'm allergic to flowers so you can't grow them any more.
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Scott Ive been ready to revolt! My guns are clean, mags loaded and MRE's packed. As much as I hate to say it, this country needs a revolution to happen. The government and EPA have taking things to far and this goes far beyond wood burning. In the wise words of James Yeager- I'll fire the first shot LOL. P.S- Since this is a "puplic forum" I don't have any battle weapons so don't try to send a tac team to my house and confiscate them because you won't find them >:D
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Not complaining here, and believe me I am not some gun toting nut. Things are out of control. We just had a 92 year old lady in Bellaire Ohio have her home invaded by 2 young thugs. The trash raped her and then beat her to death. What a horrible ending for a lady that lived a life of dignity. Now the trash has public defenders arguing against the death penalty. Unbelievable!
On another note, I received a blessing and leased out my 50 acre farm to Great River Energy. I went to a tax accountant that specializes in oil and gas and he advised me to put 50% back for taxes. I know that most people would like to have this problem-but 50%? I guess I have to pay my share to help support the welfare system.
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Not complaining here, and believe me I am not some gun toting nut. Things are out of control. We just had a 92 year old lady in Bellaire Ohio have her home invaded by 2 young thugs. The trash raped her and then beat her to death. What a horrible ending for a lady that lived a life of dignity. Now the trash has public defenders arguing against the death penalty. Unbelievable!
The fact that criminals have the right to a defense and are considered innocent until proven otherwise is a sign to me of what isn't broken. Imagine if the criminal justice system worked the other way where people were rounded up and given no trial before being executed.
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It sure does feel like I am a guilty party. I am punished for marrying a woman, for working a regular job, being religous, keeping my daughter instead of killing her before birth, saving money on heat, keeping a gun in the house for hunting and protection from thugs, having a beer on occasion, and above all not wanting to give $$$ to some lazy unappreciative turd unwilling to help themselves before insisting I give up my earnings. I am offensive because I agree with Phil Robertson and want to extinguish those two thugs that killed the old gal in her home. And don't even think of having an opinion other than some low life celebrity spouting off every chance they get.
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Not complaining here, and believe me I am not some gun toting nut. Things are out of control. We just had a 92 year old lady in Bellaire Ohio have her home invaded by 2 young thugs. The trash raped her and then beat her to death. What a horrible ending for a lady that lived a life of dignity. Now the trash has public defenders arguing against the death penalty. Unbelievable!
The fact that criminals have the right to a defense and are considered innocent until proven otherwise is a sign to me of what isn't broken. Imagine if the criminal justice system worked the other way where people were rounded up and given no trial before being executed.
:post: :thumbup:
It can be hard to cheer when you see someone like these guys getting a defense. Just remember though, a strong defense bar helps deter a descent into tyranny. I hate seeing victims having to go through testifying against their assailants (or the family of deceased victims having to sit through it all), but it's a necessary and good component of our system.
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How many representative smoke? smoking sends smoke in to the air causing pollution to air, how many powerplants are running sending pollution into the air, diesel trucks and farm equipment send pollution, they don't see that thats a problem, why pick on us that has owf stoves.
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I read this earlier today. Makes me sick to think all the city folk and suburbanites know what it takes to heat an old farm house. I did not and do not have the funds to build a new efficient home. Where I live there is no natural gas line. If you want to stay warm and alive you choose propane ($5/gal), electric ($0.15/Kwh) or wood ($10/cord). I cut my own wood on my land so for $100/ year I can heat my home and water. Even if I buy a new saw each year it is cheaper than the other options. My rights can easily be squashed by someone 20 miles away that is more "educated" than me. My pollution is the problem? Mining for coal, burning coal at the electric co., gas drilling, propane delivery must not add any particulate to the air. Just my phase II wood burner. But my neighbor with a fireplace that emits smoke non-stop and draws their warm air up the chimney when not used is efficient and ok.
Yep, I see that I AM the problem. What was I thinking? Clearing dead wood from the forest making room for new trees, recycling God's original renewable fuel, saving money like MSN always suggest I do, getting exercise to try and stay healthy and keep health care costs down. Shoot me now, I AM Public enemy number one!
:thumbup: Well said.
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welcome to the muslim country that the united states of america has created. sad but true
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Outdoor wood boiler owners need to clean up their act and be as responsible as these people. http://www.viewzone.com/sixteenships.html (http://www.viewzone.com/sixteenships.html)
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To add to my last response.
quote from another website regarding shipping. Meanwhile, want the grim punchline? There are now about 90,000 cargo vessels plying the waters globally. Not all emit as much as the hugest ships, of course. But if you assume the average ship is only one-tenth as bad as the giants, that means cargo vessels on the seas emit more than 500 times the total pollution of the world's vehicles.
After that, we don't quite know what to say.
SHIPPING BY NUMBERS (from The Guardian article)
The world's biggest container ships have 109,000 horsepower engines which weigh 2,300 tons.
Each ship expects to operate 24hrs a day for about 280 days a year
There are 90,000 ocean-going cargo ships
Shipping is responsible for 18-30% of all the world's nitrogen oxide (NOx) pollution and 9% of the global sulphur oxide (SOx) pollution.
One large ship can generate about 5,000 tonnes of sulphur oxide (SOx) pollution in a year
70% of all ship emissions are within 400km of land.
85% of all ship pollution is in the northern hemisphere.
Shipping is responsible for 3.5% to 4% of all climate change emissions
Yeah, we really need to clean up our owb's.
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The U.S. Congress legislates what they can change guys!
EPA & cleaner OWBs?.... Why sure it makes legislative sense! If the average gasifying OWB is more expensive, more tax revenue is paid to the Feds.
Going after emissions on international cargo ships? Bad idea.... no one will allow it. If those goods do not make it to port at the U.S., Wally World would not be able to stock their shelves and sell the Chinesium goods.... billions? trillions? of dollars of goods that can be taxed for revenue.
"Green" to a U.S. legislator is money. ;)
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Maybe what the democrats want is for us to start burning weed in our stoves?!?! I might have some people that would actually volunteer to fill my stove for once!
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That don't make them bad folks
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its not a republican or democrat thing there all in bed together,the wealthy and the banks control this country and the world now ,look on every corner there is a brand new huge bank. what we need is a leader to come forward and lead a revolt,to this country.wipe the slate clean and live by the constitution.
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Maybe what the democrats want is for us to start burning weed in our stoves?!?! I might have some people that would actually volunteer to fill my stove for once!
I would volunteer for air quality control officer. ;D
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Maybe what the democrats want is for us to start burning weed in our stoves?!?! I might have some people that would actually volunteer to fill my stove for once
They would have more revenue also. Tax food, or just the snack aisle. What a winfall of money. Obama couldn't give it away fast enough. He'd look like that guy in the insurace commercial with money falling off him on his motorcycle. We would still be broke, but every third world country would thrive.
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Maybe what the democrats want is for us to start burning weed in our stoves?!?! I might have some people that would actually volunteer to fill my stove for once!
I would volunteer for air quality control officer. ;D
I'm sorry Roger, I stereotyped you as one of those guys who does not partake simply because you own a John Deere, I thought only Cat guys did that!!!!!
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U know what, I wish we lived in a time where if they came on ur land u could blow there damn head off.. I'm sorry, I know this won't sit well with many folks but I, me, my business are all under attack and I've had enough bs.
We are stripped of our rights more and more and more and more everyday and I'm just tired of it..
Anyone ready to revolt?
I think the EPA should be made to show and prove just how our boilers are harming the environment! I don't have particles coming out of my boiler. There is very little smoke if I burn dry hardwood. They come up with these statements out of their ass and we are supposed to accept them. All decent law abiding citizens are being attacked in some manner.
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We need to put about five million like minded people in Washington when all our politicians are there. That would make there tails twitch. But that would be a feat, because they are hardly ever there.
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I personally would prefer that they would go home and stay there, Have you guys and gals ever had a real run in with your elected regulators, I have, in fact 2 years of my life was spent traveling back and forth to my state house on my dime, preparing for battle on the floor of the natural resources chambers, doing workshops with the DEP, listening to their lies, all it got me was Broke, skip it, live your life the best you can and be prepared for the worst, have conversations with your neighbors about what is coming and how we can work together as friends and neighbors to get through the theft of our LIBERTIES, that is the most important thing you can do for THESE UNITED STATES
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U know what, I wish we lived in a time where if they came on ur land u could blow there damn head off.. I'm sorry, I know this won't sit well with many folks but I, me, my business are all under attack and I've had enough bs.
We are stripped of our rights more and more and more and more everyday and I'm just tired of it..
Anyone ready to revolt?
I have been ready for a long time. Sick and tired of retarded politicians and tree huggers pushing their agendas on the rest of us. I eat meat, burn wood, drive an SUV and a big truck, I ride ATV's for fun, and the biggest sin of all................I have a....................um...............................shish.......gun. That gun is just waiting for me to piss it off so it can hurt me, I am so afraid, I hope it can't find the shells and load itself. These politicians all need to go. Seems simple enough to me, that if we were following our constitution, we wouldn't need any new laws and a hell of a lot less politicians. I am with you 100%
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Maybe what the democrats want is for us to start burning weed in our stoves?!?! I might have some people that would actually volunteer to fill my stove for once!
I would volunteer for air quality control officer. ;D
I'm sorry Roger, I stereotyped you as one of those guys who does not partake simply because you own a John Deere, I thought only Cat guys did that!!!!!
Okay Slim, you got me. ;D I spent nearly 20 years on our local EMS unit and that opened my eyes to a lot of things. Roger
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1998 Cat 416 B