Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: agriffinjd on March 03, 2014, 07:27:10 AM
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If you are doing only in-floor radiant heat, do you set the OWB to only heat the water to like 130 degrees instead of the 180 degrees for a force air setup? I don't have my OWB yet, and I'm planning on forced air, so this is just a question for my curiosity.
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Running that low on the OWB will cause em to rust out faster. You'll have condensation in the firebox and the cooler the water the more free oxygen it can carry. Run as hot as you can and get some tempering valves to control your radiant heat temps.
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Run it hot.
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I run the OWB at 180 with 10 degree difference; have Water to water heat exchangers in both the house and detached garage (so I can run them closed loop with a glycol mix), and run water temperatures in floor of about 100 to 120 (with an Belimo mixing valve) but a thermostatic would also work.
You would not want to run a OWB with 130 water temperature, run the risk of condensation in the firebox. I run a CB eClassic 2400 (Gasser) it required a bypass to be installed between the OWB and any heating application; is basically sends water back to the OWB if its below 140, so that you do not shock the boiler and prevent it from forming condensation
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Thanks all. Interesting to learn even if not how I'm going to do it.
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Thanks all. Interesting to learn even if not how I'm going to do it.
That's funny! I have radiant heat and it is just so much more powerful at higher temps especially noticeable in cold temps. I need higher temps for my DHW tank anyway but when I run it down lower it seems the call for heat goes on and on because the return temps pull the boiler temps down easily.
Besides the obvious condensation problem which it sounds like you are going to ignore, you can ignore this observation also. LOL!
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Thanks all. Interesting to learn even if not how I'm going to do it.
That's funny! I have radiant heat and it is just so much more powerful at higher temps especially noticeable in cold temps. I need higher temps for my DHW tank anyway but when I run it down lower it seems the call for heat goes on and on because the return temps pull the boiler temps down easily.
Besides the obvious condensation problem which it sounds like you are going to ignore, you can ignore this observation also. LOL!
By ignore what do you mean? My original post was out of curiosity because I'm going with forced air when I do the install. I was just wondering if if I were to be doing in-floor radiant instead of forced air, would I (or could I) run the water temp lower.
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Sorry Grif, when you wrote
"Thanks all. Interesting to learn even if not how I'm going to do it."
It sounded to me like you were going to ignore the advice of keeping the boiler temp up higher. Didn't mean to offend, I see what you meant now!
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Griffin I plan on doing the same thing your going to do it sounds. What kinda heat plates under the floor do you plan to use?
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Alot of the guys here recommend ultra fin. I'm thinking about going with that
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Alot of the guys here recommend ultra fin. I'm thinking about going with that
When he says in-floor I am assuming he means pex poured in concrete, ultra fin is under floor product. In-floor usually uses a mixing valve to limit heat but ultra fin runs at boiler temp.
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Good catch ITO
In slab temperature generally top out about 130F, and you can run them hotter, but in my opinion it puts too much stress (thermal) on the concrete and may cause excessive cracking or breakage. Also at those kind of temps you can easily overshoot thermostat and/or have hot spots in the floor; where pipes are close together or near manifolds
For Staple up. heat emission plate or other underfloor applications, temperatures top about about 160f, and you can run them hotter, but just like inslab if the water is too hot you could get into situation where your feet are uncomfortably hot, or worse - excessive heat is not good for all types of flooring (think solid wood floors - WARPPING & SHRINKAGE).
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I would be doing a staple up myself, I didn't know you could run that warm wow 160? I have an old sub floor running on an angle, sub floor on that, 3/4 flooring on that and to top it off new hard wood bamboo on top of that. I should drill and see how deep or thick my flooring is. Ultra fin hangs a few inches off the bottom, does anyone know is the heat plates that screw to the underside are better?
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That's the whole idea with Ultra fin, you heat the air-space not the wood and that convects into the wood or whatever evenly
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I would be doing a staple up myself, I didn't know you could run that warm wow 160? I have an old sub floor running on an angle, sub floor on that, 3/4 flooring on that and to top it off new hard wood bamboo on top of that. I should drill and see how deep or thick my flooring is. Ultra fin hangs a few inches off the bottom, does anyone know is the heat plates that screw to the underside are better?
After reading about them I'd go with the ultra fin if I was doing it.
Wish I had known about them last spring when I remodeled our bedroom. Would have been a piece of cake to install then as I even removed the floor joists (over a crawl space) and replaced those as well. But, after new windows, refilling the walls with blow in, house wrap and new siding I don't even have a heat duct in that room and it doesn't get cold. Also on the west side of the house with a windbreak fifty feet from the house.
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Jim so what your sayin is not having it touch the underside of the floor would be better than touching? It's a different type of heat right convection and radiant?
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Griffin I plan on doing the same thing your going to do it sounds. What kinda heat plates under the floor do you plan to use?
I'm just doing forced air. I only started the topic out of curiosity. I like the idea of in-floor, but not enough to give up ducted A/C and a propane furnace for backup that can keep the water in the OWB from freezing if necessary...
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I'm just doing forced air. I only started the topic out of curiosity. I like the idea of in-floor, but not enough to give up ducted A/C and a propane furnace for backup that can keep the water in the OWB from freezing if necessary...
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The water to water HX can also have your indoor boiler keep your outdoor boiler loop from freezing. For me radiant in-floor heat is so constant temp, quiet, clean and comfortable I wouldn't go back to forced air unless kicking and screaming.
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:post: I'm excited to do a system I keep reminding myself of how nice my old bosses house was. (He had an indoor gas boiler with in floor heat) it was so comfortable
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I wouldn't put boiler hot water straight in to floor pipes either. Should use a bypass, mixing valve or heat exchanger.
I have a heat exchanger to separate the systems as I have hot water and air furnace also. I used a 60 flat plate and a mixing valve on the 'house' side of it to get the water down to around 100-110°. I originally was running the 180 temps in the floor and got hot and cold spots with temp fluctuation as the pump did not run long enough to get an even heat.
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I'd do in floor heating any day over forced air.
The heat is even and doesn't blow dust around.
If your power goes out you would only have to power your stove and (1) pump to run the heat.
My setup has (1) loop through the forced air then to the floors. My floors have seen 150+ degree
heat for well over (20) years with no issues.
Its hard to describe the heat but it feels like it comes from within.
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I have staple up on 1by2the spacers running at boiler temp 178 8 degree diff i have not noticed any hot spots per say but as of now there is no ceiling in the basemnt so it tracks temp with upstairs which is nice. I did notice my return to the boiler when my main zone kicks in can dip as low as 148you ish for a breif time any body see a problem with that
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Not if it's brief!
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I have staple up on 1by2the spacers running at boiler temp 178 8 degree diff i have not noticed any hot spots per say but as of now there is no ceiling in the basemnt so it tracks temp with upstairs which is nice. I did notice my return to the boiler when my main zone kicks in can dip as low as 148you ish for a breif time any body see a problem with that
Like Slim eluded to a short term drop in return temp is OK, if its for a BRIEF amount of time. You have to realize you probably have some water (several gallons) in the ceiling panels thats about 70F (room temperature) and you are simply evacutating that into the OWB. If your return temp, does not stabilize somewhere above 160 after say 5-10 minutes, look at turning up pump, as you are potentially losing more that 20f across the system - potentially bad (uneven heat).
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I have in floor heat installed in my basement and garage. Its set at 115-120 degrees. I was advised by the concrete person and the professional who installed my system that it should not go above 120 either. Now my stove was set at 200 degrees preset by the manufacturer. I have had friends, employees and read here that 180 is what most keep there stove at. I have no issue with what its set at and I love the really hot water we get even after its gone through the mixing valve. I really think my blower comes on the stove around 185 or 190 degrees at least it seems it does when I look at the temp gauge. Maybe in the spring I might turn down the temp ad friend of mine does that and is happy how things run.
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Browncty, as long as you don't overheat and steam off from your vent, we believe the hotter the better for the boiler, what you are doing now should be fine.
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Slimjim thanks! I have the boiler plumbed so I can fill it from inside the house. All I need to do is have the wife tell me the gauge says its full or that its coming out the top of the stove.
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I did not mention that i have a 40 gal mxing tank in the house boiler goes in and out and interior zones go in and out all on diff 3/4. Oitlets
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That's called a buffering tank and is used to stabilize the temps, it balances out the zone temps
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Thats why i oiped it in i figured a little more storage and a lot less shock to boile
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Buffer tanks are awesome, what other device can do so many things at once. Hydraulic separation, air and dirt separator, protect boiler from shock, inside storage has tons less standby loss than outside and and loss goes to the house. And it stores excess BTU for when the boiler supplies more than the house or load needs. Which is most of the time.