Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: Sloppy_Snood on March 06, 2014, 04:46:07 PM
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I spent a bit of time researching products and techniques for sealing a pipe (like Logstor Dual PEX-Flex) that is penetrating a core drilled hole through a solid concrete basement wall. I actually consulted my brother-in-law who is a 30+ year veteran in the heavy commercial construction business. He suggested a product called Link SealR (which I will be using for my upcoming installation for a 6-inch core-drilled hole through a 10-inch solid concrete wall). Logstor (4.3" o.d.) expanding and sealing to my 6" hole will require a Link Seal costing $35... not too shabby for complete waterproofness I think.
The Link Seal product looks like this
(http://www.linkseal.com/htmlPages/app300225.jpg)
You can read more about Link Seal pipe sealing solutions at their website.
LINK: Link Seal Modular Seals (Click Here) (http://www.linkseal.com/htmlPages/base_ls.htm)
Many YouTube videos exist on Link Seal but I thought this one was pretty good:
GPT Industries Link-SealŪ Installation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYHA8qRMLJA#)
Note: I do not work for nor am compensated by the Link Seal company in ANY manner. I just thought I would share what I believe to be a really nice product for my application and possibly anyone else that might desire a good-looking, waterproof seal for their hydronic piping.
I will post some pictures up of my installation with this Link Seal product in the future. Cheers! -Slopster
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I've used many of these for electrical and plumbing conduits into concrete underground vaults as well as poured basement walls and they work very well. They are used with core drilled holes (smooth sides). I used a 14" one recently for a dam removal project, it held back pressure from 9 acres of pond in a small river, it was used around a valve which had a substantial amount of pressure, it worked under the strain for nearly a year during the project.
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Neat product.
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That LinkSeal thingy is pretty cool, but I am wondering is a hydaulic cement would work for sealing core-drilled holes???
Again I am not a expert, ... just a homeowner
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VERY interesting, Thank you Sloppy_Snood
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That LinkSeal thingy is pretty cool, but I am wondering is a hydaulic cement would work for sealing core-drilled holes???
Again I am not a expert, ... just a homeowner
Yes LittleJohn.... hydraulic cement might work BUT.....
do note that Logstor (and most likely Rehau, ThermoPex, etc.) recommend a rubberized sleeve over the insulated pipe casing when traversing a core-drilled hole through solid concrete. Aside from abrasions and stress on the pipe from settling, corrosive materials like cement and wet concrete really should not be in direct contact with the pipe's outer casing. The beauty of the LinkSeal system is that it is 100% waterproof but keeps the pipe's outer casing out of direct contact with the concrete of the wall. 8)
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That LinkSeal thingy is pretty cool, but I am wondering is a hydaulic cement would work for sealing core-drilled holes???
Again I am not a expert, ... just a homeowner
Yeah it might work temporarily, but that's what we repair the most often. Once a crack or breach starts, that means there's movement and hydraulic cement doesn't like any kind of movement.
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See other people do know more than me... :bash: and apparently how very little I know about hydraulic cement.
Question, how much movement would there actually be since on side of the wall the pipe would be probably be buried in dirt?
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Question, how much movement would there actually be since on side of the wall the pipe would be probably be buried in dirt?
It could be substantial depending on the care during the backfilling of the trench. If there is not enough compaction near where the piping enters through the hole, the ground may settle and cause the piping to move slightly in the earth. If the earthen backfill pushes down (for argument's sake), obviously the end of the piping traversing the wall would apply pressure and cant the piping upwards. At any time there is movement around mortar or cement used to seal, cracks will (not "if") form. Water may enter the dwelling through the crack and/or epand and contract during freeze thaw cycles (if above the regions frost line). As such, it seems to me that a polymer solution like LinkSeal will allow for minor settling yet retain waterproofness and integrity.
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Mother Earth always moves, frost line above, the pipe casing itself. There are big shear forces on a pipe that enters any vertical wall. Just the temp change in the concrete itself. I like eucolastic, or the flexible injection foam kits for sealing basement wall cracks. Hydraulic cement is very strong and gets very hard which makes it prone to crack very easily. I don't even use tar, because after time you see how it crystallizes and cracks up. When it comes to basement/foundation sealing , I think it should only. Be done once. Backfilling with plenty of pea stone or seven eights stone prevents some of the shear forces.
You know the rod holes from the forms, they pack those with corks and then top off with hydro cement. Well those are always leaking and they don't even have any forces on them like other situations. Just sayin
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I spent a bit of time researching products and techniques for sealing a pipe (like Logstor Dual PEX-Flex) that is penetrating a core drilled hole through a solid concrete basement wall. I actually consulted my brother-in-law who is a 30+ year veteran in the heavy commercial construction business. He suggested a product called Link SealR (which I will be using for my upcoming installation for a 6-inch core-drilled hole through a 10-inch solid concrete wall). Logstor (4.3" o.d.) expanding and sealing to my 6" hole will require a Link Seal costing $35... not too shabby for complete waterproofness I think.
The Link Seal product looks like this
(http://www.linkseal.com/htmlPages/app300225.jpg)
You can read more about Link Seal pipe sealing solutions at their website.
LINK: Link Seal Modular Seals (Click Here) (http://www.linkseal.com/htmlPages/base_ls.htm)
Many YouTube videos exist on Link Seal but I thought this one was pretty good:
GPT Industries Link-SealŪ Installation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYHA8qRMLJA#)
Note: I do not work for nor an compensated by the Link Seal company in ANY manner. I just thought I would share what I believe to be a really nice product for my application and possibly anyone else that might desire a good-looking, waterproof seal for their hydronic piping.
I will post some pictures up of my installation with this Link Seal product in the future. Cheers! -Slopster
Sloppy_Snood (There must some kind of significance to the name) Thanks for sharing the information with us. One question - Can that seal be installed after the pipe has been installed through the poured wall? Roger
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Sloppy_Snood (There must some kind of significance to the name) Thanks for sharing the information with us. One question - Can that seal be installed after the pipe has been installed through the poured wall? Roger
Yes... the name Sloppy Snood is in reference to the wild turkey. The "snood" is the piece of dangling flesh that kind of "slops around" over a male turkey's beak (the red thing hanging over the beak in my avatar). It is the internet name I use because I turkey hunt a great deal across the United States (...and am always open for new turkey hunting invitations! ;) LOL!). Enough of that..... LOL
Your question's answer: The LinkSeal is wrapped around the pipe after the end of the pipe is inserted through a core drilled hole. The core drilled hole must be of larger diameter than the pipe. The LinkSeal manufacturer has a chart indicating was size core drilled hole is needed for a given pipe size. In my case, I am using Logstor pipe with an external diameter of 4.3". The LinkSeal itself can accommodate some variation in the o.d. of the pipe and simply expands (through compression of polymer fittings that comprise the LinkSeal's links).
Whether or not you can use a LinkSeal on a pipe already installed depends on the hole's existing condition. If there is a piece of PVC already through the wall when the wall was poured, you could possibly add a LinkSeal. Of course, there must be an adequate "gap" between the pipe traversing the wall and the PVC sleeve in the wall. LinkSeal could tell you what that minimum gap should be but looking at my uninstalled LinkSeal, it appears to be around an inch.
If your existing pipe through a poured concrete wall is already mortared in (hydraulic cement or any other masonry cement), the cement must be removed in order to create the required "gap" for the LinkSeal to slide all the way into the wall across its thickness. This would also apply to those who might have used DuPont Great Stuff (or equivalent polyurethane spray foam products) to fill the void between the concrete hole's core-drilled wall and the pipe. Exactly how one would remove mortar, cement or polyurethane foam from this void while preserving the smoothness of the core-drilled hole's wall is going to be "tricky" and undoubtedly time-consuming. Not saying it cannot be done but am saying "labor intensive." The "easier" thing to do for this scenario would be to break the pipe connection appropriately, dig up the pipe on the outside of the wall, re-coredrill (or clean existing hole out with a rotary wire brush power tool), epoxy in a PVC sleeve or equivalent and reassemble with the LinkSeal installed. :o Again, labor intensive and not practical at all if trying to "save money." :)