Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: Roger2561 on April 17, 2014, 04:19:28 AM
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Hi all, This is what I'm thinking; use the storage capacity of the OWB as a hot-water tank. Essentially, use solar collectors to heat the water jack in my OWB. I'll have to look at the owners manual to be sure but I believe I have a second set of ports (input and output) in the rear where I could pipe a flat plate heat exchanger (FPHE) to separate the water in the OWB from the glyol (I wouldn't have to drain the system when not in use in the winter) in the solar collectors. Use the in-ground Thermopex pipe to get the hot water to the superstore DHW tank in the basement of my house like I do now. What I don't know is the following;
1) What size of solar collector(s) would I need to heat 195 gallons of water in the OWB
2) What size of FPHE would I need for the heat transfer from the glycol in the solar collectors to the water in the OWB without too much of a heat loss.
3) Would I need an expansion tank between the FPHE and solar collectors? Size?
My guess is I'll need some kind of controller to turn on the glycol pump when the OWB water needs rewarming. I can pick that up at my local box store. I'll need a pump; get that at the box store too.
I need your expert opinions on this concept. Is my thought process warped thinking this is feasible? Would I have to be concerned of condensation happening? My guess is that as long as the water in the OWB is warmed that ambient air, it shouldn't be an issue. But, I'm no expert. Your thoughts and opinions are most welcome. Roger
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Roger is your goal to heat your domestic hot water or is it to keep your boiler hot?
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Is there a reason to heat the furnace jacket instead of just a FPHE to the underground lines?
Neal
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Slimjim, NaturallyAspirated - I'm glad I posted my idea. I like the idea of keeping the OWB water jacket out of the equation; FPHE to underground water pipe. My Thermopex is 80 feet long and my superstore DHW tank is 40 gallons heated to 140 degrees. What are yoiur thoughts on size of collector and FPHE? Roger
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Roger, you are in NH are you not, each manufacturer will have their own specs, my point is, talk with your local supply house and they can help you spec it to your needs, the guys I use for something like this is Granite Group for NH, there very well may be some of those liberal free money programs that they can make you aware of
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If all your heating is DHW, you might wanna look into the calefi solar on tanks or similar and a taco solar mixing block. That would be the most efficient use of the panels. As far as size of panels go, well that will determine your recovery rate, obviously more will make more and recover. Quicker. But you can always add to the system.
Solar is also capable of handling the shoulder months for heating as well. More so if you have low temp emitters like radiant panels or infloor.
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I have looked at this, I made allowance to add solar panels at a later stage.
Certainly currently the cost of adding the system vs the amount of extra wood I would need to burn means that that financially it makes no sense.
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If all your heating is DHW, you might wanna look into the calefi solar on tanks or similar and a taco solar mixing block. That would be the most efficient use of the panels. As far as size of panels go, well that will determine your recovery rate, obviously more will make more and recover. Quicker. But you can always add to the system.
Solar is also capable of handling the shoulder months for heating as well. More so if you have low temp emitters like radiant panels or infloor.
Interesting Sprinter, never thought of using the panels with the boiler in the shoulder months. Have a resource for reading up on this?
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I have looked at this, I made allowance to add solar panels at a later stage.
Certainly currently the cost of adding the system vs the amount of extra wood I would need to burn means that that financially it makes no sense.
That's a great point, TheBoiler. I never thought of looking at the cost versus the return on my investment. All really wanted to do was keep the oil burner turned off for good. I would use the OWB to heat my DHW though the summer months but I'm concerned of neighbors breathing in the smoke, especially when everyone wants their windows open at night. I have too much respect my neighbors. Roger
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It's good to see respectful wood burners like yourself Roger!
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ITO I will look it up but mostly its on paper from seminars. Do you remember that link I posted about live wood boiler monitoring. He has solar charging his storage and heating the DHW. In his case ,I believe his state and energy providers , provided a huge credit/check for the solar and another for the storage. Most of the New England states do. When you see those fancy systems on hearth , that's pretty much the only reason they did solar or storage. Heck I'd do it too if Michigan was cutting $2500+ check for a storage tank, and another $5000 for a certain amount of solar and $5000 for a pellet boiler. He has a few posts on how much he gets out of it and I believe its all monitored and measured.
Roger, definately look at the cost analysis, but when doing so make sure your using very credible resources. And look into who might be giving credits, we have a ton of money for it, but on a industrial or commercial size and many other requirements.
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Hey guys - Thanks for the discussion on this topic. I have learned a lot from you. I'll look into the cost analysis of a ready to go system. I was talking to a co-worker about this and he's thinking of somehow building his own collector using copper pipe, plywood and other stuff. He said he'd share his plans with me. I'm rather handy with power tools and sweating copper joints so perhaps I may have found an alternative solution to the high cost of the ready built systems. I'm renovating the second floor of my house into a small apartment for a younger brother who's feeling the financial pinch a lot of people are experiencing and maybe I can coerce him into helping me building it. Roger
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It's good to see respectful wood burners like yourself Roger!
Jwood - I have a very good relationship with my neighbors. A couple of them have kids who have dirt bikes and they ride them quite a lot. But, the parents are aware that I have to be in bed early due to having be up at an extremely early time (3:30am) so they shut down their kids bikes at 8:00pm. They are doing their part showing me consideration by shutting the bikes so I feel it's only fair to reciprocate by not keeping the OWB fired up during the sometimes hot and humid summers we can get here NH. Roger
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:thumbup: that's how all neighbors should be respected. That's awesome!
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I hope I haven't posted this twice.
Alright, I'm very passionate about solar panels. They are an affordable way to reduce dependancy on foreign oils
or reduce your power bill.
My setup includes (6) 4'x10' evacuated hydronic solar panels. My stove was designed for solar storage during the shoulder months
and DHW heat during the summer. Here are a few links to Hicks older offerings (Not sure they are available now "EPA")
http://www.hickswaterstoves.com/Graphics/No.1/IndexNo1.html (http://www.hickswaterstoves.com/Graphics/No.1/IndexNo1.html)
Link to Mark's pricing so you can budget parts, he is reasonable as well if your looking.
http://www.hickswaterstoves.com/Price.html (http://www.hickswaterstoves.com/Price.html)
If you check all the pictures you'll see several of the solar storage tanks as well.
To build a solar set up you will need approximately (4-6) panels (I bought my panels for $75.00 each, used).
If you locate used panels make sure they are pressure tested before you purchase them!! I'd recomend locating older panels built in the late 80's through
early 90's because they are made with copper tubing. Some of the newer designs are more efficient but I bought all (6) panels cheaper than
(1) of the evacuated tube panels cost.
Four panels would give a two person family all the hot water they need or for a four member family (6) panels would make hot enough water
for all showers and clothes (I run (1) 70 gallon bath per day, hot water to our dishwasher, (3-4) loads of laundry per day as well.
1. Solar Panels
2. Structure for panels (mine are mounted to my shop but you can mount them on the roof of your house and tye in from there).
3. Piping, a few pieces of copper (recommended) and however much pex for your setup.
4. (2) Sensors for stove & solar panels
5. Vaccume break on solar panel for drainage
6. Controller - Mine is a Goldline Solar Controller - (2) sensors are goldline as well.
This is a simple analog controller but it was cheap from my coworker. Many options are offered that can tell solar collector temp, etc.
7. Pump - My manufacturer installed a willow pump for the panels.
Please ask any questions, send pictures of anything you may purchase and I'll give unbiased opinions. I researched solar panels for
quite some time before I purchased.
For anyone local feel free to contact Mark, he has used panels for $200 and under and new if you would like (See his price list).
Some states will even offer a rebate for the solar storage portion of your stove and purchase of new panels.
Mark was able to deduct the firebox from the purchase price and add solar panel cost (at least a large percentage)
towards an NC rebate for purchasing all new parts.
You could also add additional panels down the road for solar heating. I'd like to add (4) more to my setup and it would augment
some of my wood buring. I pulled heat down to 35 degrees and have seen a twenty degree rise on some of those days when sunny.
I've asked questions previously about stove heat during summer and posted my setup as well.
http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4075.msg35900#msg35900 (http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=4075.msg35900#msg35900)
I can gather a list for anyone interested, may be a good sticky for people interested.
I hope this help a few move towards solar, it has a decent payback and unlimited life expectancy (my fathers system is 25-30yrs).
I'll also take a picture of my full setup and a diagram of the piping if needed.
Also, If someone has the time, effecient solar panels can be built at home from locally sourced parts as well and
solar storage tanks. Check youtube for some of the demonstrations. I've watched several videos of people building
panels. My father even built a 2'x2' solar panel for my science project when I was younger.
That was a lot, sorry!!
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Roger,
For simplicity look into evacuated panels or tubing, glycol wont be needed then.
When the panels warm up the pump kicks on and pumps water through them.
At the very top of the panels a vaccume breaker/pop off valve (not sure what to call it).
opens up and drains the liquid from the panels. You don't have to worry about freezing.
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For what it costs for these solar collectors youd be better off buying actual solar panels and running your hot water Heater on electric.
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frydedaddy,
Your attachment from your July posting has been deleted by Admin. for space issues it said.
I have a solar panel that I have had for about a month now. I like it so well I have taken on a dealership of these evacuated solar water heaters. Below is a link to my facebook page to see my setup. I am still learning myself.
I am going to offer 2 sizes of panels, a 36 tube with 110 gal tank on top and a 60 tube without a tank. Some folks already have the reserve and don't need the tank.
The 36 tube is supposed to be approx. 60,000 btu and the 60 tube approx. 100,000 btu.
I have a record of some of my results and will post if you want me to.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Midwest-Outdoor-Furnace/145438465637490 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Midwest-Outdoor-Furnace/145438465637490)
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Scott,
If you already have the stove and can mount these on your roof, they should be cheaper than solar electric.
Brand new 4'x10' panels (new technology, can use less panels than older) cost around $1,300 each and will give you unlimited
hot water. It will give you the same benefit as DHW during the winter.
I've never researched the solar electric cost but I thought the panels were more costly than hydronic panels.
Let me know I'm interested in solar as well and hope to power my stove and pump off of it one day.
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I have some pretty expensive hobbies and toys , yet the only thing that actually paid anything back even close to break even was winning at the pro level of snowmobile drag racing. But heck I don't get into my hobbies to make money either.
Now I do consider burning wood as a hobby in some aspects as well. Take pride in my wood gathering equipment, how neat you CSS and keep the boiler area. Being on here learning and helping others. I'm thinking for just the cost of a razor and mountain sleds I could have the absolute best Geo, solar , wood system. I guess sometimes not paying utility bills is the best reward.
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I have some pretty expensive hobbies and toys , yet the only thing that actually paid anything back even close to break even was winning at the pro level of snowmobile drag racing. But heck I don't get into my hobbies to make money either.
Now I do consider burning wood as a hobby in some aspects as well. Take pride in my wood gathering equipment, how neat you CSS and keep the boiler area. Being on here learning and helping others. I'm thinking for just the cost of a razor and mountain sleds I could have the absolute best Geo, solar , wood system. I guess sometimes not paying utility bills is the best reward.
I used to work on a pit crew back in high school. The owner won World Series one year, riding a 440 (500 stock I believe). Musta been 98 or 99... can't remember back that far haha.
:thumbup:
Neal
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I have some pretty expensive hobbies and toys , yet the only thing that actually paid anything back even close to break even was winning at the pro level of snowmobile drag racing. But heck I don't get into my hobbies to make money either.
Now I do consider burning wood as a hobby in some aspects as well. Take pride in my wood gathering equipment, how neat you CSS and keep the boiler area. Being on here learning and helping others. I'm thinking for just the cost of a razor and mountain sleds I could have the absolute best Geo, solar , wood system. I guess sometimes not paying utility bills is the best reward.
Sprinter, Ultimately my goal is to be as grid free as possible but money, rather, the lack thereof, is an issue. I have to do these system upgrades as money becomes available. Roger
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I hear you, and some say money can't buy you happiness. I was trying to make the comparison, that a quick ROI isn't the only justification to invest.
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Roger,
Do you think it would work to build your own solar collector, (lots of examples online) and tie it into your water jacket. It is something I have thought about.
A tour of Meadowview Biological Research Station - Wood furnace and Water Heater (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymbWSFgFo-8#)
That seems to be what this guy is doing.
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Super Simple, CPVC Solar Hot Water Collector (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP8H5IOTwYU#)
something like this.
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Greg,
I like the newer designs of the tube collector, wish I could afford it!!
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fryedaddy,
They look nicer than some and work well!
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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frydedaddy,
Your attachment from your July posting has been deleted by Admin. for space issues it said.
I have a solar panel that I have had for about a month now. I like it so well I have taken on a dealership of these evacuated solar water heaters. Below is a link to my facebook page to see my setup. I am still learning myself.
I am going to offer 2 sizes of panels, a 36 tube with 110 gal tank on top and a 60 tube without a tank. Some folks already have the reserve and don't need the tank.
The 36 tube is supposed to be approx. 60,000 btu and the 60 tube approx. 100,000 btu.
I have a record of some of my results and will post if you want me to.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Midwest-Outdoor-Furnace/145438465637490 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Midwest-Outdoor-Furnace/145438465637490)
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
Just how do those work in the winter? Or just drain and wait till spring when the suns really out? A guy 4 or 5 miles down the road put up two arrays of self standing solar panels, eyesore comes to mind first, secondly most of the winter they were covered in snow.
If I was to do the solar panel thing or solar collector I have a few buildings with southern facing roofs, they'd go there, wouldn't have em on the house, very little southern exposure on the roof anyways, secondly new roof, and any kind of mount is a leak waiting to happen. With the OWB, forced vent furnace and water heater, we removed the chimney as have no need for it when we re-roofed as it was just another potential leak sometime in the future.
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I've heard that if a house is on fire with solar pannels on the roof , the fire dudes won't go on the roof
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So Greg,
Tell us about what you got there. How does it work and what would it set a guy back?
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To all,
These panels look a lot better than home made ones to be sure.
Evacuated Tube Solar Collectors are useful in every climate and location, they are happy down to -30 Degrees F. The vacuum sealed tube is freeze proof, maintaining temperatures of over 250 degrees inside while the outside temperature is freezing. This outstanding performance in colder climates give Evacuated Tube Solar Collectors a decided advantage over Flat Plate Solar Collectors in mid to northern locations.
I sell a 36 tube with tank, (110 gal.) and a 60 tube without a tank.
You only need a tank or some sort of holding tank if you do not have any water capacity. I have my wood furnace its Shaver 165, with 170 gal. water. Plus my 40 gal. hot water heater.
I might be better with a 60 tube since I already have the water capacity!
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To all,
This is my set up. I put my panel on a trailer to take to events and shows.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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To all,
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To all,
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To all,
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To all,
I have documented some temperatures:
This is with the Ranco digital thermostat set at 155 degrees F.
House heated to 70 degrees.
Domestic water heated to 125 degrees. I need to cool this down some.
Solar water heater and Shaver Outdoor Wood Furnace are 50 ft. apart.
Line between them are not insulated at this time.
Pump set to run only when water at Wood Furnace cools below 155 degrees.
Keeping a little wood in the Outdoor Furnace for now.
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Solar Water heater (110 gal. water) and Shaver Pro Series 165 Outdoor Furnace (170 gal. water) water temperatures.
Wednesday, April 9, 2014
8:00 am Added wood to furnace.
12:00 noon Furnace water temp. 159 degrees F
Solar water heater temp. 154
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Thursday, April 10, 2014
12:30 am Furnace water temp. 158
Solar water heater temp. 185
Outside temp. 57
8:00 am Added wood (24 hours later!)
Furnace water temp. 153
Solar water heater temp. 157
Outside temp. 60
10:30 am Furnace water temp. 162
Solar water heater temp. 164
Outside temp. 70
12:15 pm Furnace water temp. 168
Solar water heater temp. 175
Outside temp. 77
2:00 pm Furnace water temp. 177
Solar water heater temp. 186
Outside temp. 80
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Friday, April 11, 2014
12:30 am Furnace water temp. 188
Solar water heater temp. 191
Outside temp. 55
9:00 am Added wood (25 hours later!)
Furnace water temp. 147
Solar water heater temp. 152
Outside temp. 61
11:00 am Furnace water temp. 154
Solar water heater temp. 164
Outside temp. 69
2:00 pm Furnace water temp. 154
Solar water heater temp. 185
Outside temp. 72
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Saturday, April 12, 2014
12:30 am Furnace water temp. 159
Solar water heater temp. 177
Outside temp. 56
6:00 pm Added wood (33 hours later!)
Furnace water temp. 165
Solar water heater temp. 213
Outside temp. 60
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Sunday, April 13, 2014 "Raining, cloud cover"
8:00 am Furnace water temp. 156
Solar water heater temp. 201
Outside temp. 60
10:30 am Furnace water temp. 173
Solar water heater temp. 198
Outside temp. 66
12:30 pm Furnace water temp. 173
Solar heater water temp. 196
Outside temp. 75
2:30 pm Furnace water temp. 172
Solar water heater temp. 196
Outside temp. 73
4:30 pm Furnace water temp. 178
Solar water heater temp. 202
Outside temp. 72
6:30 pm Furnace water temp. 183
Solar water heater temp. 202
Outside temp. 69
Next test will be with no wood!
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Greg, what kind of price can we expect to pay for the system without the tank? I already have a 40 gallon tank inside the house for DHW. Roger
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Roger, Sorry I forgot to put the prices.
They are both $2,260.00 each, with or without the tank.
One is a 36 tube with tank and the 60 does not have a tank.
The more reserve you have the longer your hot water will last, say over night for instance.
If you wanted to heat your CB and your domestic you would probably need two. I would discount more if you need two! Probably $2,000.00 each.
There would be shipping. Would have to call to find that out.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Those are some impressive numbers, what kind of flow or output are you seeing. I mean how long at those numbers you posted would it take to charge the 300 gallons.
I would like to see what kind of recovery with no wood. And the prices seem pretty good if you can operate with no wood between 40-65 degree outdoor temps.
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SO I have 360 gallons of water in my boiler. I would be interested if those tubes could heat my water enough in the summer that I need no wood? And if they give a little bonus btu's in the dead of winter I am all for that too.
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Greg,
I'm quite ignorant when it comes to solar so I'm a little slow on the uptake. The 110 gal tank you mentioned above, is that the unit that's attached to the collector tubes in the photos? Or, is it something completely separate and is located elsewhere? Thanks, Roger
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Sprinter,
I have my setup ran with water hoses 5/8", for ease of unhooking and tanking to events. My flow is restricted because of that and the run is 50 or 60 ft. between the furnace and the Solar water heater. There is also 60 ft. of 5/8" copper in the 36 tube unit. Its around 160 to 180 ft. run. I getting about 3 gpm witch is ok because it needs to move through the solar unit slower to pickup the heat. My dhw exchanger is in my furnace, 50 coil of 5/8 copper and that loop is on its own thermostat and pump.
If you start with cold water I don't know how long it would take. I sure it would be easier to maintain if you started of with warm water. My next test will be with no water. I don't know where you are located, but here in Illinois you looking to not use any wood until Nov, Dec.? Don't really know yet. The factory has a 60 tube on a furnace total water is about 400 gal., maybe a little more Its a pretty big building. Its been heating the building at 68 to 70 degrees for about a month now its kept up, but on a few cold days it struggled. He said he will need two.
12valve,
For the summer one 60 tube might be enough. you can always try one, then add another one later. They need to face South. If you order at two different times you pay two different shipping fees. I do not have any details on dead of winter figures. The should do fairly well in the winter. I think they are considered about 100,000 btu on a 60 tube.
Greg Steinaher
618-401-0726
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Roger,
Its the capacity of the whole unit tubes and tank on top, and there is a 60' coil of 5/8 copper running through the top tank. That is the exchanger.
Here is the 60 tube, no tank, still holds 100 gal. The water is directly used from the solar unit no exchanger.
The 36 tube unit the tubes are vertical and the 60 they are horizontal. If you look the 60 tube tubes are a little higher in the center to allow for the heat to rise.
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Thanks for the answers Greg. Do the units come with pumps or controls or is it simply the panel and all other things would be an additional expense?
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12valve,
It is just the panel!
Greg Steinacher
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To all,
Here is a video that my daughter-in-law made for me. On the 36 Vacuum tube Solar Water Heater. How to put it together. She is very talented.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSWHrAw0zNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSWHrAw0zNc)
My son Keith, built my web site too.
www.midwestoutdoorfurnace.com (http://www.midwestoutdoorfurnace.com)
They are good kids. Take a look and let me know what you think?
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Greg, this is pretty interesting, I watched the video and looked at the site and yes they did a good job. Would really like to see what results you have in colder temps, if we would use the style with the tank and exchanger on top then the lines from the boiler would be insulated and run from a constant running separate pump (just like another heating loop off the boiler), correct? I could see this working in the shoulder seasons and summer for DHW use but have a hard time thinking there would be much benefit during the middle of a northern WI winter. Seems hard to believe it can work down to -30 and be freeze proof. Sounds like you are just getting this going, best of luck to you, its a great concept, we will keep our eyes on your progress.
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ITO,
I've tried to reply to this 4 times. Here goes again. It is kind of hard to believe until you see it yourself.
I put a vacuum tube against a table and filled with water. Started out about 60 degree water. In 5 or 6 hours the water temp. in the tube was almost 225 degrees. Water boiling out the end of the tube. The outside of the tube was cool to touch with the inside 225 degrees.
Could not get pics to send.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Greg - what's in the vacuum tube, water, glycol, air, etc...? Like ITO, it's difficult for me to wrap my head around something that can produce heat in minus temperatures. This technology is new to me so forgive for me for my ignorance and skepticism. Roger
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Roger,
Its a glass tube that you fill with water.
Its glass inside and out. Its vacuum sealed and has a black solar collecting material first, then a layer of aluminum and then a layer of copper.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Roger,
Another picture!
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Roger,
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Roger,
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Greg, thanks for the pics and taking time to answer my concerns. The pictures are rather convincing. How long did it take for the water temp to get that high? I imagine it didn't take too long. Roger
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how do they stand up to ummm lets say golf ball sized hail ??
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Now there's a good question farmboy!
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What is the manufacturer and or any links to their data. Might help others understand a bit better. The construction and operation. It seems that these would easily keep a hundred gal of DHW on tap from March thru October , and a good solar circulator would monitor and maintain peak output as the weather changes.
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Good post Sprinter :post:
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Roger,
I started it at 9:00 am and checked at 4:00 pm, the temp. was already at 225 and the water had steamed off to 6 or 8 inches below the top of the tube. The time was under 7 hours, don't know exact.
Farmboy,
I'm told they will withstand a gulf ball at 50 miles an hour? I not going to test that. LOL
Sprinter,
I'm sure they are made in China, the bolts are metric is one clue. If you google vacuum solar water heater. There is a lot of info. out there. There is also several ways and what kind of material they are made of.
Hope this helps.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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To all,
Maybe this will help you all to understand better.
Greg Steinacher
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Well I gotta say the picture does clear up a couple things for me, Sprinters comment about the solar circulator makes sense. But a couple questions still.
Can you tie this into your existing boiler and use it as a tank and pump to your house to do DHW and heat in at least moderate temps or am I missing something?
A smart pump controller system must be needed, what do you recommend?
I know you are just starting this up and kudos to you for that but don't you know where these are manufactured or any of the construction specs or even a website for the manufacturer?
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Here in Ma there is a $750 rebate on elec water heaters with heat pumps, a fellow owb installed one last year seems to like it
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Without some kind of brand, details, and standard output data, its kinda hard to go out on a limb for that kinda money. China......support?
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I just dont see as much fascination in this, they do work indeed but id just assume to take that money and buy actual solar panels
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ITO,
Where are you located and what is your capacity of your water jacket in your furnace and are you using a sidearm for your domestic hot water.
Greg Steinacher
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Do you think your better off with a larger tank on the boiler or a smaller one?
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ITO,
Where are you located and what is your capacity of your water jacket in your furnace and are you using a sidearm for your domestic hot water.
Greg Steinacher
Greg, We're in northern Wisconsin, 135 gallon HeatSource1 555 boiler, no sidearm, flate plate exchanger with a superstor water tank on the indoor heating loop, radiant floor heat on the loop (with mixing valve) and an outdoor hot tub with a ss shell and tube exchanger.
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I just dont see as much fascination in this, they do work indeed but id just assume to take that money and buy actual solar panels
Scott, I can see both sides but in our case we dont have that much electric and the investment to hook up to sell back to the utility here doesnt have rebates also I dont want to take care of a battery array, hot water for the shoulder season and summer would get us off the propane tank and allow us to run the outdoor tub without electric heat. My electric bills in winter are under $85/mo running the tub, without the tub in the summer we can get the bills down to $40/mo so ROI is not there. I can see in the future to do solar but this looks more interesting right now.
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ijon,
Do you mean water capacity for hooking up a Solar Water Heater?
It depends on what you are heating total. What is your water capacity now. Do you heat your hot water.
Greg Steinacher
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ITO,
How much water does the superstor tank hold? What temp. are you maintaining in the furnace? I'm thinking your going to need the 60 tube collector.
Greg Steinacher
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I thought you were talking about the boiler tank.
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ITO,
How much water does the superstor tank hold? What temp. are you maintaining in the furnace? I'm thinking your going to need the 60 tube collector.
Greg Steinacher
Greg, Its a 45 gallon model http://www.htproducts.com/superstorultra-stainless-steel-tank.html (http://www.htproducts.com/superstorultra-stainless-steel-tank.html)
I am assuming because of our cold weather we would need the larger unit. I am also wondering how heavy that unit is, my wood shed has a south facing roof right alongside my boiler.
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I was thinking of doing something similar to what Roger mentioned in his original post but instead of a fphe, utilize the access port that many OWB manufacturers provide in the water jacket as an option for a DHW coil.
If enough of a coil could be inserted into the OWB, a simple system with a circulator, differential temperature controller, and solar collector could almost be mounted on top of the wood boiler or in close proximity. Maybe a zone valve that would close when water in the boiler is hotter than he solar collector to stop unwanted circulation. Already been done? Any thoughts?
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ITO,
You have 180 gal. water capacity and are actually heating the 135 gal. and it heats the 45 gal. through the exchanger in the superstor tank.
I took this comment below off of the link to your superstor tank you gave me. It looks like they have vacuum tube solar water heaters. Wonder what the price on them are?
Evacuated Tube Collectors shine because of
their incredible freeze protection and
unique 360 degree collector design.
The tubes 60, weigh about 5 lb. each = 300 lbs.
I would guess the frame a 100 lb.
It holds 100 gal. of water at 8 lbs. per gal.= 800 lbs.
Yours looking at about 1200 lbs. More or less!
Of course the weight would be spread out over the roof span and not in one spot.
The panel is 5' high and 12' long. Its sets on a 45 degree angle!
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Idaho,
The Shaver Pro Series Furnaces come with 50 ft. of 5/8" copper in the water jacket for the DHW. This is a separate loop with its own pump and thermostat. The pump runs when the DHW needs heated! Is this what you are talking about?
I'm using my solar water heater to heat my furnace water. The furnace water heats everything else!
Back on page 3 I have some figures I documented on my setup. I am burning some wood, putting a small amount in every 2 to 3 days.
The panel is to big to mount on the Outdoor Furnace! You would have to put it on the ground!
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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With the data posted these are very well worth looking into. Storage or larger volume of DHW is a benefit, where weather might be inconsistent. Also using just one small panel to recover 100 or more gallons would ensure enough reserve on low output days. But with the data it seems the panels make some serious water at some low outdoor temps. I like it, just would like to know more specs to size and calculate options. Thanks Greg for sharing.
Super store heaters are awesome, quote one on every job. It's the last heater you'll ever need to buy. I see their 30 tube collectors do 7-9 million btu/year output. Save a lot of cords of wood right there. HTP evac panels started at $2375 , and there is a 30% fed tax credit with no limits for solar water heater systems. Expires Dec. 2016. They have some output charts and 10 year warranty details.
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To all,
30% tax credit on Solar.
These Solar Hot Water Heaters qualify for the 30% tax credit (rebate). This is total cost of the unit or units and the installation cost with no limit.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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To all,
Best areas for Solar Hot Water Heaters! In the US, Canada too! :)
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
www.midwestoutdoorfurnace.com (http://www.midwestoutdoorfurnace.com)
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guess we don't get any sun in Canada :(
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NONE, Al is from the states and we don't want to make him look foolish!
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To all,
This is what a Evacuated Solar tube consist of:
We are calling these Simple Solar.
Borosilicate glass, stronger than normal glass!
Black absorber layer!
Aluminum layer!
Then copper inner layer.
Very good quality about 93% efficient! Better then most.
Greg Steinacher
618-401-0726
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Yeah I had read on many other sources, that these evac water systems are three times more efficient than the latest ones used for electricity. Another good bit of info is Michigan is looking into providing more solar and bio heat support thru rebates n credits as of this month. We will see how far it goes.