Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: jepcked@msn.com on August 05, 2010, 11:31:05 AM
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I am looking at the shaver 250 and the wood doctor 8000 also wood doctor gassification boiler HE5000. Does anybody have any of these and are you happy with them. Any pros or cons? Also if you could do it all over agian would you buy the boiler you have or would you have gone with another company?
thanks.
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Stay far away from wood doctor! They are a global hydronics stove, Many many issue with them. research this site under hawken and global. The new hawken stoves seem to be fine, i have one and it has been flawless. If i had to do it over again, hmmmmm I think i would give geo themarel a try with the current tax credits its almost a non brainer.
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I would get one with an ash pan
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I would probably build my own
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I am building mine as I want to incorporate features from different manufacturers and some of my own ideas. :thumbup:
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im with jackel..build my own (again)
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I would make sure you buy a stainless furnace ( preferably made from 409) and one with an real removable ash pan. I ofcource recommend the brand I sell, Heat Master, but I am sure there are others who also make a quality product. Also no matter what brand you buy, look into the warranty offered and what type of water treatment and water testing is offered by the manufacture. The proper water treatment program will add many years to the life of your furnace, think of it as the same as changing oil in your call.
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If you are looking at a Shaver 250, you may want to compare it to the Nature's Comfort NCB-250. The NCB-250 has a nice sized ash pan and a big well insulated fire box door.
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I have the wood doctor 10000 and it has run 24/7 for over 2 years without a problem. Check with a local dealer about who builds them, mine is very well built and compared to others that friends have I do not regret the purchase
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I also have a Wood Doctor and it is absolutely awesome. I have the HE5000. I see the same folks on here bashing the Wood Doctor's. I think it's just a personal thing. There is a new dealer near me that has installed the HE5000, HE8000, and some HE10,000 (after I purchased mine direct) and everyone loves them. Now, maybe in the past or the non- gassers are what someone is complaining about, but what I have and use is one well made and operating boiler.
I am a Master Auto tech with repairs, welding, plumbing, electrical, and hyd experience for 30+ years so yes, I can make an informed decision on workmanship.
Also, I did extensive reasearch before I bought my boiler and I would NEVER buy stainless of any kind..... Look it up, stainless "hates" heat....... but, a previous post is saying to go that route.
In the end, you can buy what you want, but if you were my relative or neighbor, I would recomend my boiler....hands down.
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Shaver - priced right and made with thick steel.
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I have a real problem with shaver, do a few searches and look what you find on problems. It's astounding, also, google "shaver problems topix". A bunch of customers who couldn't get helped had to go to a Internet forum to gripe and hope they did something about it cause shaver refused to answer calls. There stoves are made of thick steel but the welding on them is sub par at best.
Also, consider the fact the company is lying to everyone of their potential customers telling them that there stoves qualify for the tax rebate! They are no where near 75% efficient, more like 50 some, yet they lie to their customers and will potentially cause them problems if it's investigated.
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I have a real problem with shaver, do a few searches and look what you find on problems. It's astounding, also, google "shaver problems topix". A bunch of customers who couldn't get helped had to go to a Internet forum to gripe and hope they did something about it cause shaver refused to answer calls. There stoves are made of thick steel but the welding on them is sub par at best.
Also, consider the fact the company is lying to everyone of their potential customers telling them that there stoves qualify for the tax rebate! They are no where near 75% efficient, more like 50 some, yet they lie to their customers and will potentially cause them problems if it's investigated.
I have a shaver 290. Its done exactly what they said it will do . They all have had their problems .I am selling these also, Whats astounding is the fact that people are always try to change the the way the furnace should be installed or short cut on the parts and everything else you could possibly think of. Almost every one who comes out to look at my stove will end up telling me that they are going to do it this way or that way and it usually has something to do with trying to save a buck. I have read the problems and cant help to wonder if we could see what they have done we could probably see the problem they are blaming shaver for. Also, Shaver stoves are certified for the rebate. i dont know what you are saying.I received the 1500 rebate and have a certificate to prove it . Please be accurate with your post .
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Shaver must be using false document because they are not EPA phase II approved, in fact I don't even think they have a furnace that could even pass phase I. Here is the link to the EPA website that lists the furnaces that have passed the official testing. http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html (http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html) Shaver has been know to make other crazy claims so it is no surprise they would lie about this.
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Shaver must be using false document because they are not EPA phase II approved, in fact I don't even think they have a furnace that could even pass phase I. Here is the link to the EPA website that lists the furnaces that have passed the official testing. http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html (http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html) Shaver has been know to make other crazy claims so it is no surprise they would lie about this.
I'm not sure about this nor do i really care to be honest. I just know that the stove i bought performs just like they said it would. I'm not saying that there aren't better stoves out there but the price for the shaver is very good . This is why i bought mine . Very thick steel and very good price ,easy to install (large door in back to access the plumbing.I will have my money back in no time . What more can i ask for?
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You may be asking for more if you ever got audited by the IRS and they found you used false documents to get a tax break. Also, check on the thickness of your water jacket. The stove is no stronger than its weakest point. Shaver has been known to use thick metal on its fire box and thin metal on its end caps and water jacket.
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You may be asking for more if you ever got audited by the IRS and they found you used false documents to get a tax break. Also, check on the thickness of your water jacket. The stove is no stronger than its weakest point. Shaver has been known to use thick metal on its fire box and thin metal on its end caps and water jacket.
Ok another hater...LOL !!! I have the doc. to prove to the Irs if needed.WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IT ? Shaver had the 4 models tested. They passed. I have already saved 3500 in the first year with this stove. House is warm as the wife wants it, Pool is 85 deg. ,shop is tee shirt warm and never froze all winter . Breaker for hot water heater has been off for one year ,Water heater in shop isn't even wired to the box. Washing cars in the dead of winter with hot water ~sooo cool ! keep on hatin and I'll keep on savin . LOL
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They didn't pass the EPA test, that is easily proven by looking at the furnaces that passed on the EPA's website. http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html (http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html) Not sure how you can argue against that. The rumor is that Shaver ran their own test and made up the paperwork. I know for a fact there are several State Attorney Generals that are looking into this. I don't have a problem with shaver selling furnaces, they are just one of many inferior companies on the market. The problem that I and many other furnace dealers have are the false and illegal claims that are being made. Not only is it defrauding consumers it is also giving the industry at large a bad name. The quality big furnace manufacturing companies like Central Boiler are not going to quietly stand by and allow shaver to claim to have a furnace that will compete with their furnaces.
Well .When i first heard about the 1500 rebate i called Shaver only to find out that only one stove had been certified. Then i saw on the site that the next size was good. So i called to ask about my model and they told me that they wern't sure as it was very expensive to do . Each model had to be tested seperatly . This is what they told me .Now 4 models have been accepted to qualify for the rebate. I have my paper for taxes and thats all i care about. As far as the big companies go thats for them to fight it out. Shaver has made lots of people happy and I'm one of them . They offer a very good price which is more than most other brands can say.
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Looked at Shaver when I started researching stoves. Called several times could not get in touch with anyone. Left messages and never received a call back. Needless to say didn't buy one. I ended up with a CB 6048 and couldn't be happier. Label me what you want but I would tell any prospective buyer to stay away from Shaver.
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CB are very nice furnaces. Most of the people i come in contact with just cant afford them. I was looking at a Heatmor before i found Shaver and it was going to cost 10,000 just for the furnace. That was for smaller one also.
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I have a cb5036 and I like it except its too small,It heats fine but in the coldest time I need to feed woody every 8 hours.Im in Maine and it gets cold here.If I could i would buy the cb6048.An other thing about cb boilers is they are so well built but very simple for the money.I will say this about cb boilers.I have had it 1 year and have not added 1 drop of water.Very well thought out unit imo.
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Bottom line is do your research and buy the best you can afford. I looked for 6 months and visited several dealers and eventually gained enough knowledge to weed through the BS and figure out what was important and what wasn't. Simplicity is the key...and 2 years later I've yet to add one drop of water either.
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Bottom line is do your research and buy the best you can afford. I looked for 6 months and visited several dealers and eventually gained enough knowledge to weed through the BS and figure out what was important and what wasn't. Simplicity is the key...and 2 years later I've yet to add one drop of water either.
What boiler are you running.One more thing about my centrel boiler,I dont seem to have to worry about the ash.I guess the most of it goes up the stack.
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Probably CB, there is a dealer close!
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Cb 6048 but it had nothing to do with the location of the dealer. Actually there are several Taylor and Hardy dealers closer. Again, I looked at stoves and researched the internet for months and bought the CB based on that alone. Price was not a concern based on the life expectancy of the stove I bought. Yes CB's are more than most but if you spread that cost out over 2 or more decades it's not material (for me a least).
Ash...if you roll the coals everyday ash will be minimal. I would estimate after burning 12 cords (1 year) I had about 15 5 gallon buckets full (more or less).
I too would stay away from stainless.
I would not bash anyone's stove... not qualified. But, my experience with Shaver's customer service made me realize I'd be on my own if I had a problem.
Do your home work. Be warm. Say goodbye to the propane guy!
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from all the research ive done over the years ive concluded that all models have their pros and cons, i have a homeade with 1200gals of water storage . im convinced water storage makes it more effiecent then any thing i could buy ,..except a GARN. knowing what i know i would compound all the ideas and things i like from all of the better units and have a local fab shop build it using all the thickest stock i could afford. when i built mine i used 3/4 '' steel firebox in a 3/16'' stainless tank ,still haven't seen companys using too different metals. i do agree that stainless has no business as a firebox, poor expansion and contraction leads to cracks and splits. also when i see guys talk about there stoves they never mension how much insulation it has! that should be the second asked question when buying.
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I would get a wood master. Stay away from stainless and whatever you buy DO NOT GET A HEATMASTER. TOTAL JUNK AND A WORTHLESS WARRANTY!! VERY.VERY POOR COMPANY.
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I would get a wood master. Stay away from stainless and whatever you buy DO NOT GET A HEATMASTER. TOTAL JUNK AND A WORTHLESS WARRANTY!! VERY.VERY POOR COMPANY.
Doesn't woodmaster only have a 10 year warranty?
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Wood Masters website says they have a 10 year pro-rated warranty but then it also says they only cover leaks for one year. Is that correct or am I reading this wrong? Maybe it means the warranty is only 100% for one year.
"Woodmaster warrants material and labor on any defects in workmanship on the firedrum and water jacket for a period of ten years(pro-rated) from the purchase date to the original owner only.
If there is a leak in your properly delivered and installed WoodMaster furnace in the first year, WoodMaster will replacethe furnace at no cost to the original owner.(Leak in Water Jacket or Fire Box)"
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Wood Masters website says they have a 10 year pro-rated warranty but then it also says they only cover leaks for one year. Is that correct or am I reading this wrong? Maybe it means the warranty is only 100% for one year.
"Woodmaster warrants material and labor on any defects in workmanship on the firedrum and water jacket for a period of ten years(pro-rated) from the purchase date to the original owner only.
If there is a leak in your properly delivered and installed WoodMaster furnace in the first year, WoodMaster will replacethe furnace at no cost to the original owner.(Leak in Water Jacket or Fire Box)"
I just know that they dont have much of a warranty.. kind of ironic the guy who complained about the warranty for heatmaster wants a stove with one of the worst warranties in the industry.
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Selling my Shaver 165 on Wed and not sure what I'm going to do, except celebrate that the Shaver is gone. RIP. Good Idea very very poor execution. I'm either going to put a natural gas hot water tank in my shop to heat my floor or buy a Nature's Comfort.
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Selling my Shaver 165 on Wed and not sure what I'm going to do, except celebrate that the Shaver is gone. RIP. Good Idea very very poor execution. I'm either going to put a natural gas hot water tank in my shop to heat my floor or buy a Nature's Comfort.
I've had at least 50 people look at my Shaver and all have said good things about it. Most find it hard to believe that it can heat the house,large shop,pool,and hot water in both. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.Mine works great.
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I read this post, all 3 pages, and it makes me think about what I drive.
A 1984 GMC Suburban wtih the 6.2 Diesel, 250,000 miles, and a '93 Hyundai Excel, and I collect Corvairs.
Who could ask for a more re-knowned group of Orphan cars?
The Hyundai's were junk, I find the seats a little thin, otherwise it's a great car. The Suburban has the much hated 6.2. I have several of these, and don't have trouble, they just aren't as tough as a Cummins for instance. the turbo 6.5 takes a beating, but they're cheaper, so I just take it easy.
And the Corvairs. They leak oil, but they're the cheapest collectible out there, parts are plentiful, and they're economical too! Go fill up the tank on an SS396 Chevelle, or 383 Roadrunner. I get low 20's with my '64 4 Speed Monza convertible. I also have a Turbo Spyder, that gets 15, but has a racing engine!
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I have only had one. I really like my Wood Doctor HE5000. I like the boiler plate, myself. I look at history, look at all the old skyscrapers and their boiler systems with the old coal burners. Those guys made repairs without all of our new electronics and welders and etc. most are still producing heat 100 years later. IF it gets a crack it can be welded. Rust is my only worry, but with the chemicals out there now, control of that is rather simple, as long as you take the responsibility of maintaining it. Stainless in my opinion WILL crack, just when?
The HE5000 is a simple and effective design. I get a clean burn with very minimal ash and my wood use is much lower than I had anticipated. Which was low to begin with! I would definitely buy another WD. Granted this is my first season and first stove. I would like to consider myself picky and able to recognize quality when I seee it, hence my purchase. I think even the mild DIY'er could install this fairly easy, and talking with the Turples, I believe they will stand behind their stove. If any of them want to continue to do business in the long run, they had better. This forum is a good example. You cannot hide complaints from customers anymore, IT WILL BE KNOWN! That goes for any manufacturer of any product. The net has allowed checks and balances.
Buy an HE 5000, you will be happy you did.
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My wife and I have decided to got with a Waste Oil Boiler. I can get a good supply of used engine oil easier than cutting, hauling and splitting wood
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My wife and I have decided to got with a Waste Oil Boiler. I can get a good supply of used engine oil easier than cutting, hauling and splitting wood
corvairwild, i am not here to bash you for not going with wood as i know a lot of folks don't want to cut and haul and stack and etc etc and your choice is sure no business of mine and i wish you all the luck in the world with your new oil burner. my only question would be what is a "good supply" of used engine oil. do you have a realalistic idea of how much used oil you will need?
i can only guess it would be near what a regular oil stove would use. in my neck of the woods that would be a few hundred (if not more) gallons a season. that is a lot of oil changes and now adays i think that many places will take all kinds of used oil, including tranmission oils, rear end oils. hydrolic oils and will pay most shops some money for it. I am only guessing but you might have some paying comitition for that used oil.
make sure your "good supply" is good before making a major purchase and good luck to you.
i do know our local tractor shop uses a stove lilke that and they say it works great but he does have a good supply of oil
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The whole idea of these forums IS to mind other folks business. Otherwise I would make an uneducated decision, and wish I woulda' known the pitfalls BEFORE, but of course, then it's too late. So read, and comment, and be the Devils advocate... No problemo...
The house DOES have a very nicely built fireplace, stone over cement block, with gaps for air circulation aided by a hidden fan. There's also a wood boiler in the basement, next to the oil boiler. Maybe I'd put up with the wood required for the house, but we're buying the place because of the large warehouse, and that's heated by propane, I think, with direct ceiling heaters.
I'll have to buy a few "Modines". Prolly not a hard to find item, as they were made for a Zillion years. I do all my own plumbing, gas and oil installs, electrical, etc. So I can buy any used Junk, and make it work.
I plan to buy a 1000 gallon oil storage tank with a work bench work surface, and fill it during the summer, when oil shops have more oil than they can give away. In the winter, it'll be scarce, much like finding cord wood or wood pellets, or even oil! I will fill out the load chart once we close the deal on the prop, and figure out what space I'll use, what's insulated, what'll be rented, etc. I may have the faom truck spray some uninsulated walls when we do the trench to the house for the buried water lines.
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I have an Aqua-Therm but I would get a Johnson if I had it to do all over. Aqua-Therm sucks. Their customer service is non-existent and the people they hire to sell their products don't always know what they're doing. At least mine didn't. He buried the pipes about 1 foot underground. He also didn't put a bleeder valve at the highest point of the system so we were constantly air locked. The first year we had to fill it at least 4 times a day. It was a full time job. We tried contacting AT about the problem but they wouldn't answer an email and when we contacted them by phone we'd get put on hold forever after describing the problem. I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure everyone knows just how crappy their customer service is. Also, the fan flapper thing broke after 2 years and it 's riveted in so replacement is a pain. They know how crappy it is so they charge and arm and a leg for a replacement. Never, ever consider an Aqua-Therm. They have absolutely no compunction about hiring dishonest dealers and they don't back up what they sell.
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So maybe the furnace itself doesnt suck...Maybe its the people that installed it sucked and had no clue on what they are doing.. My lines are buried 3 feet..Did everything myself execpt for the actual hook up..Hired my own plummer... Sounds like yours is plumb wrong where you getting air locked all the time etc....as far as the flapper thing..Come on 2 rivits really that pain in the ass?? Pretty easy to me.. yeah if u buy flapper through them u pay just like any dealer for any brand.. u can find them on the internet..Sorry you have a bad investment...For me one on the best investments..Beats paying big oil!