Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: big cat on July 23, 2014, 09:18:56 PM
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I believe a pipe replacement project is in my future. This past winter posed several problems for me using a Nature's Comfort NCB-175 to heat our 3,000 sq foot house and DHW. My wife and I would fill the unit ~5 times per day, without bringing the house completely up to temp. I should note that we purchased the home in November and the OWB was installed by the previous owner.
I have a 14 degree temp delta between what comes out of the OWB and what goes into my plate ex-changer in the basement. The lines appear to be triple wrapped, 1" pex lines in corrugated pipe. I'm thinking of replacing the lines with Logstar.
Any thoughts?
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How were you measuring the temperature? If you were losing that much heat from the underground pipe you could almost grow grass over it in the winter. ;D
Where are you located? Unless you are fairly far south or have a really well insulated house and are burning well seasoned wood, an NCB-175 is probably not big enough. It may have been ok on the milder winters we had been having but last winter it would have been struggling.
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Sounds like you have water in the wrap, the wrapped pipe works fine IF it stays dry, water in the tile allows for lots of heat loss into the ground water! The Logstor will be your best investment!
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I'm located in upstate NY and if I'm running the #s correctly, the NCB-175 provides more than twice the amount of btus for our 14 year old, 3000 sq' house. I'm leaning towards Slimjim's thinking in that I have water in the lines. The lines are ~4 feet deep in shale. I didn't grow any grass this winter I think due to the depth of the lines.
I'm hoping the logstar does the trick, although I'm also thinking of putting a larger plate exchanger in. I'm thinking a larger plate would aide in heat transfer/efficiency?
Thanks for the feedback guys.
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If it was even close to being able to heat your home with those sorts of temp losses then it's not the plate exchanger, I would be willing to bet it's simply water in the tile.
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Slimjim,
Would it make sense to encase the logstar in drain tile as protection or is that overkill?
thanks
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Slimjim,
Would it make sense to encase the logstar in drain tile as protection or is that overkill?
thanks
I'm thinking of doing the same regardless of what I buy, make sure you get the solid and not the perforated.
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If you use Logstor I see no need but if you are ambitious it's Ok
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Is the insulation waterlogged? I've seen that happen before. If so, solid core foam line would likely help.
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I guess I'll find out if its water logged when I dig it up. :)
Any feedback on the depth I should bury the logstar at (my current lines seem to be about 3-4' deep)? Also, any feedback on sealing the poured foundation wall penetration (I've read about hydraulic cement or spray form)?
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They ask for at least 18 inches if you will be driving heavy equipment over it, you will need at least 3 1/2 feet deep to make the bend up to your boiler straight up, I would use sand directly around the pipe in case you ever want to move it, a sleeve also would be helpful there but not necessary for protection, the outer wall is strong enough that I have taken a scrap piece, thrown it down in my gravel driveway, grabbed a bucket of gravel in my 416 cat backhoe and driven over it to show a customer that it will not damage the pipe :thumbup:
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Hey Slim, how strong is the rehau casing compared to the logstor? My installer sent me the rehau so I used it 3' deep. Thanks
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I have never used it but it looks like very good quality, would you like me to send you a sliver/sample to compare the two?
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Thanks for that offer! If you would like I have leftover and would sent you a piece as you would be better at comparing the 2, your opinion is valued on the forums, mine is in the ground and too late for me
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I would like that! I will PM you my address, let me know the shipping cost, I will only need a sliver to compare the two, could you share with us the retail cost?
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Yep, when I get address I will send next week, stuff is light so no worries on shipping
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Got it
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GREAT/ THANK YOU!
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I got the pipe sample last night Ridge, Thank you. The pipe looks to be good quality but these are some differences that I see.
1 Pex is 1 inch nominally sized on the Reheau (outside measurement) and metric 1 inch inside on the Logstor
2 The foam appears with a naked eye to be a bit different, not sure which is superior, I would have no issue with the insulating value of either.
3 The Logstor has what they call Smart membrane adhered to the black plastic exterior cover, between the cover and the foam, Logstor says this helps to protect the foam from gassing off in the future, I do not see this in the Reheau
The Logstor is about 1/4 inch wider on the outside dimension.
Conclusion, Either could go in the ground on one of my installs, If it's up to me and not the customer to make the choice from a $ standpoint I'm going to use the Logstor because of the Pipe size and added flow
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OOPS, I wanted to post a picture of the 2 side by each, Here you go, Logstor is on the left, Sorry about the messy desk, what can I say, my wife says I should be more organized and clean it up, I think a clean desk is a sign of a person with to much time on their hands, Great excuse anyway!
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that is a nice example, First I've seen them side by side, the logstor is larger so a person would get more flow.
I have to figure out my flow with the system I have with the diameter of my pipe and pump I am using, hopefully it will be sufficient for our needs.
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I see some bare feet in the pic as well.
You may be more right than you know, I seen a workplace study done years ago, people who have a slightly cluttered desk are more productive than those that have pristine desk. Another interesting study, when an office goes entirely paperless productivity generally goes down a slight amount.
People tend to deal better with having things wrote down, I can get the paper on the web but much prefer actually holding it in my hands while reading it. I also read enough though that I much prefer using my smartphone and the Kindle app rather than buying the print version.
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I would not get to concerned Ridge, there's a lot of boilers out there using nominally sized pipe and performing well ! I would pay more attention to fittings like 90's and heat exchanger sizing, if you can, keep the 90's to a minimum and spend the extra money on long radius, (refrigeration) 90's and a larger say 50 or 60 plate heat exchanger! Very perceptive of you mlappin, I sit here most every morning from about 5 AM until my helper shows up around 9AM, when he shows I normally still need to pull my pants on and dress my feet, my wife thinks I ain't right in the head!
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Finished my logstar pipe install last weekend and finished up the final grading to get ready for top soil and grass seed. Last, I just need to complete the sharkbite fittings (showed up today) and electrical connections. Couple issues I encountered were mass quantities of heavy shale so I had to re-route my pipe plan (fortunately I ordered extra) and the weight of the empty boiler maxed out the excavator's limits. Otherwise, should be good to go come winter (I hope).