Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: concordprof on August 14, 2014, 07:13:58 AM

Title: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: concordprof on August 14, 2014, 07:13:58 AM
I am wondering what everyone prefers and what the pros/cons for each are.

Sidearm vs Plate for DHW
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on August 14, 2014, 11:55:56 AM
My basic stance is this.  Normal to high usage, use a plate exchanger plumbed before your water heater.  For low use and intermittent usage, use a sidearm.  If you have a mixture of high usage, low usage, and intermittent usage, then use both.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: racnruss on August 14, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
I agree with John. 
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: concordprof on August 14, 2014, 06:24:26 PM
I spoke with the local cb dealer this eve. He quoted me $400 for the 20 plate exchanger and fittings. It seems a little high to me. Is there anywhere online where I can purchase it a little cheaper?
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: mlappin on August 14, 2014, 07:34:00 PM
I spoke with the local cb dealer this eve. He quoted me $400 for the 20 plate exchanger and fittings. It seems a little high to me. Is there anywhere online where I can purchase it a little cheaper?

Ebay or Amazon.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: concordprof on August 14, 2014, 08:02:39 PM
Does anyone know what fittings(size/type) that I would need to tie into 1" pex?
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: slimjim on August 14, 2014, 08:25:53 PM
Sheet, for that kind of money buy the 50 plates that Coolidge has on here for sale!
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: mlappin on August 14, 2014, 09:16:05 PM
Anybody have any experience with this type of sidearm?

http://www.outdoorfurnacesupply.com/she-33ss.html?CAWELAID=520011210000000070&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=520011210000000001&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KEQjwvLGfBRDfkrr19KDS-7YBEiQA8CoFJyqZ2RUx4I8U1rDDg_aYiEvmZrrgQRpBitIzRVT53XEaAg0U8P8HAQ (http://www.outdoorfurnacesupply.com/she-33ss.html?CAWELAID=520011210000000070&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=520011210000000001&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KEQjwvLGfBRDfkrr19KDS-7YBEiQA8CoFJyqZ2RUx4I8U1rDDg_aYiEvmZrrgQRpBitIzRVT53XEaAg0U8P8HAQ)

Also seen on another site they claimed their small pool heat exchanger could be used in place of a plate HX for domestic hot water. A little more spendy than some of the 20 plates I've seen, but shouldn't require cleaning.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: slimjim on August 15, 2014, 04:14:35 AM
Looks like it will certainly transfer some serious heat, what fitting sizes does it have?
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: LittleJohn on August 15, 2014, 06:09:15 AM
One advantage I see is that with a sidearm you could only have to put a pump on the one side; where as with a FPHX you have to have 2 pumps for either side of the exchanger
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on August 15, 2014, 06:22:03 AM
I spoke with the local cb dealer this eve. He quoted me $400 for the 20 plate exchanger and fittings. It seems a little high to me. Is there anywhere online where I can purchase it a little cheaper?

That's a bit steep!!  Man those CB guys like their $$$!!
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: mlappin on August 15, 2014, 07:08:50 AM
Looks like it will certainly transfer some serious heat, what fitting sizes does it have?

One inch in for the boiler and 3/4" for the DHW.

Also available in a 38" long model. I'm thinking about giving it a try. On my original install seems our local dealer didn't know anymore about it than I did. Never mentioned anything about cross flow or keeping the top of the sidearm as close as possible to the top of the water heater. Of course water heater was new at the time and the way the forced vent was set up there was very little I could do then to keep from voiding the warranty. Warranty is long gone and I can lower the whole thing six inches now.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: Sloppy_Snood on August 15, 2014, 07:23:32 AM
That's a bit steep!!  Man those CB guys like their $$$!!

If you saw that super nice CB catalog I picked up at Classic Comfort couple months ago,,, it is easy to see where a nice chunk of their margin goes:  advertising and sales materials.  Not bashing CB at all mind you... it seems to work for them.  8)

To CB's defense, it sure does make it easy to simply pick parts for whatever one is trying to achieve.  People will, do, and continue to pay for "easier."
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: concordprof on August 15, 2014, 08:05:22 AM
Are thermostatic mixing valves a must?
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on August 15, 2014, 11:06:57 AM
I don't have one on my plate.  I tested my temps and they topped out at 139.   I've determined that's as hot as my 20 plate will get the water.  A side arm, if left along long enough, will approach the same temperature as your stove.  I do have plans to add a mixing valve in the future when my kids start taking showers on their own.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: LittleJohn on August 18, 2014, 08:49:39 AM
Are thermostatic mixing valves a must?

Not REQUIRED, but HIGHLY  recommended, because like CountryBoy eluded to -> depending on setup, the temperature of you water heater will approach the temperature of you BOILER.  I don't know the temp of your OWB, but mine is about 180f, that might make for a very brutal shower  :o I think if your run a secondary heat source in excess of 140f to your water heater it is highly recommended, if no CODE to mix down to 120f.

In the state of Minnesota, as a landlord I am pretty sure I am required to have the wate heater set between 110-130 on a rental property!   ...don't ask me how I know  :bash:
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: ST98 on August 23, 2014, 07:00:09 AM
Is there any way to just heat your water through an exchanger without having a hot water tank, and be hot enough?  Like an on demand system.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on August 23, 2014, 04:40:18 PM
Yes. Just plumb a plate exchanger after your water heater. It will heat it as you use it.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: ST98 on August 25, 2014, 12:50:26 PM
How many plates would you recommend?  I have a 50 in the house and a 70 in my garage.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on August 25, 2014, 02:50:58 PM
Woah!  20 plate is all you'll need for domestic hot water.  If you go with the "instant" setup I could see a 30 plate giving you more readily available hot water, but I would be going with a mixing valve in that case for sure! 
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: ST98 on August 26, 2014, 12:50:47 PM
Pardon my ignorance but I have another question(s)?  Would my well water then run into my heat exchanger then into my hot water line?  What is the normal temp of hot water in a house?  My electric hot water heater is only a couple years old and I don't want to replace it. It's got some funky connections that don't look like other people's who can bolt on a side arm.

Thanks
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: CountryBoyJohn on August 27, 2014, 05:16:24 AM
Hey, everyone is on here for more information!  The plate exchangers have 4 ports.  The left two are for your domestic water and the right two are for your stove water (when holding the exchanger vertically.)  Your well water will enter the exchanger at the top left and exit the bottom left.  The stove water will enter the exchanger at the top right and exit the bottom right.  (Some people have the flows go opposite, I fail to see how it makes much of a difference.)  After the well water exits the exchanger, it will enter your water heater.  The only modification you will have to do is cut your supply line, attach it to your plate exchanger, and attach the exit to your water heater where the supply used to enter.  Very simple, very minimal changes to your water heater.  You will not have to replace it. 

Normal high temps for a water heater is 120 degrees.  The setup I described above can get your water up to approximately 140 degrees, depending on your stove temp.  Most people do install a mixing valve to prevent scalding. 
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: mlappin on August 27, 2014, 11:52:08 AM
If you have a large enough exchanger cross flow won't matter. It does make a difference though according to most manufacturers.
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: ST98 on August 27, 2014, 04:30:22 PM
Sounds easy enough. Thanks for your assistance!
Title: Re: Sidearm vs. Plate Exchange for DHW
Post by: slimjim on August 28, 2014, 04:35:08 AM
I always plumb them the way the manufacturer suggests for the most efficient exchange and that is with countercurrent flow.