Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: DaveWertz on September 28, 2014, 10:59:09 PM
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Last yr I was really thinking about this whole blown cellulose into my first floor walls. Well I decided to go ahead and insulate my attic instead. There was already cellulose about 5 inches worth in the attic so I went ahead and layed down some R19 over top of that. I think it was R19 I cant remember. Anyhow I want to pull the trigger a.s.a.p on doing my first floor walls. I did as much air seal as I could possible do. I get allot of my draft and what not threw my walls. I got a quote for about $1500 to do my first floor. Is it or would it be worth the money? Honest opionions please....
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I like blow in myself thats what my garage ceiling will be getting, I like the price of it. As far as your quoted price I couldn't tell you if that's good or not sorry.
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Dave, Lots of variables here. 2x4 or 2x6 walls? What do you have for insulation now, if any. If they can dense pack your walls, then it would be worth the investment.
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I had injection foam done to my 2 story farm house. What a difference. The walls were cold and wind was blowing through the electrical receptacles. Cost a lot. If you have it done just make sure they do everything, Above and below the doors and windows. They don't need to remove the old cellulose. If they tell u that, shop around.
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Just make sure if the gaps in wall are not too big; heard of a guys who injected foam in walls, and not until later realized he had accidently filled his cupboards :o :o
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Are you referring to the insulation that looks like old pillow packing?,if so we did it to our attic several years ago above the fiberglass batts, if I had to do it over again I would insulate the whole house top to bottom with the spray-foam insulation, BEST possible investment in my opinion.
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Last addition on our farmhouse was 1908, the insides are covered in 1x12 poplar then a lathe is nailed vertically to the studs then the horizontal lathe is attached then plastered. We've been remodeling a room at a time, once the lathe is off we refill the walls with blow in cellulose insulation in any gaps. Outside was done in fan fold blue board then house wrap and new siding, and windows, THAT made a huge difference. Haven't redid the attics yet as there is still some peg and post here and there I haven't replaced yet.
You buy enough insulation and the blower is practically free.
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Dave
I do general carpentry and have done a lot of blown in insulation jobs, the price sounds about right for a average size house in these parts, not sure in your area. Make sure you get a installer that is thorough and uses a temp senor to look for any missed spots.
Should be a good investment.
Kyle
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The house was built in 1901. So I assume they are 2x4. Yeah im talking about the blown cellulose. I dont want to do the spray foam as much as I would like its just not in my budget. My only concern is if they dense pack it in some parts of my house there is nothing but wall paneling. Now Im not sure if its just by the windows or if its like this threwout the house? I dont really want to tare things apart in each room to find out lol. Would this cause any issues meaning would it push out against the paneling? The house is older with some remodeling done to one half of the house. See the house was built in 2 different sections probably 40yrs apart. So one half is I believe ballon frame. I just have so much air coming threw the walls and it needs taking care of its driving me nuts and gets pretty darn cold. 1500 just for the first floor is what I was quoted. Which is I think 1200 square....
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I've lived in a few houses that had blown in cellulose in them, to be honest I hate the stuff, it sank down in the walls, when it gets damps from the moisture in the air it is worthless to say the least, and the list is endless. I like either foam or fiberglass, we've done fiberglass blown in the walls of my shop, but put bats on the ceiling of the attic area.
Every area is different, my area foam is eight to ten times higher priced than fiberglass for the same R value, so its not cheap by any means, but we do use the closed cell as a vapor barrier on some of the buildings we've done, been around the open cell some too, which is far better insulation that any cellulose in my opinion.
My current house is insulated with rock wool insulation, which was done long before any fiberglass was invented, its held up great over the years. We've just done my folks house remodel project about four years ago, the old fiberglass we took out of the walls was about like new, to save money they used cellulose blown in the their attic, its already shrunk by half in height, and some area's have absorbed moisture and should be replaced.
About any place rents out the fiberglass blowers and you can do it yourself to save money, just wear some protective clothing and be prepared to itch some for a few days after doing it.
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I honestly didnt know they did this with fiberglass? Maybe I will look into that. Im just trying to get different opinions and experiances I hear great things with cellulose but I also hear bad things about it as well. Im on the fence about it. I didnt think cellulose retained moisture like that? And do you expect my settling even after dense packing? I thought that was the whole purpose of that is so that you have very little settling..?
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If you just have paneling, then dense pack will push it out.
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Blown in cellulose is a great product if install properly. One person said they disliked it because it settled when damp. Not sure where the moisture came from but it definitely wasn't installed at the proper density (think it is 3.2 lbs per sq inch). As far as settling in the attic around here (VT) it is installed at a 16" settled density so it may be initially blown in at 20". For 2X4 walls I would recommend Spray foam if there is any way possible in the budget since that will provide you an R-21-22 using closed cell. With dense pack cellulose you will get about R3.8 per inch or R-12 in a 2X4 cavity.
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There used to be a cellulose plant in my town when I was a kid, in school we had paper drives for the plant to use to make insulation out of, its was a really big thing back in the day, both as a fund raiser and also a donation depending on who was doing it and for what. As the plant changed and also the cellulose changed we always got the tours of it and also its progress. It ran its course and after about twenty years, everyone who'd used it, was so sick of it, the plant went broke and closed.
As for how it absorbs moisture, simple, if you have damp, foggy weather, and a lot of it, blown in cavities don't have a vapor barrier installed, its impossible to do, hence the reason for blowing in insulation in the first place. With rainy weather and high humitidy comes moisture, the manufacturers can claim all they want with the use of chemicals and process's of manufacturing, its still a paper based product, hence cellulose the name, and any paper based product can absorb moisture, will it dry out, over time yes it will, but not before it sinks in the cavity somewhat. Over time with enough sinking and drying out, you have an air gap at the top of the walls, which is why it was such a big thing to go back around a few years later, unplug all the holes used to blow it in, and top off the wall cavitiies again. I've known a few houses that had this done four times over the period of about ten years.
If you have a water leak, like in a wall or from a bath room upstairs in a house and the water runs down into the wall cavaties, the moisture will actually over power the chemicals used to treat the cellulose inslation and it will start to mold, hence why I hate it so much, I'm alergeric to mold and will get violently sick from mold, more than a few houses have been gutted due to molding cellulose insulation in my area to both clean out the old moldy insualtion and replace with new fiberglass or spray foam to elimiinate the mold issues. Just tossing out some different experiences and views on cellulose insulation, don't mean to bash the product, there are many area's of the country it works great and for many applications, but as they say, been there done that and not interested myself anymore.
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Obviously no insulation is good if it gets wet batt will hold water as well, also a pipe leaking into a wall cavity will create mold regardless of the insulation you have.
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Thanks for all the info guys. After all this Im reconsidering the cellulose thing. Now here is a question. Spray foam! Can this be installed kinda like cellulose can? Meaning can they drill holes from the outside and just fill the cavities up? I don't have time to go threw and pull all my outside wall panels off to spray foam..
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Yes they take a row of siding off saw holes and inject foam in the wall cavity plug the holes and put the siding back on. They can also do injection from inside the house if you don't want the siding messed with. Do a search on injection foam.
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They will probably want to take siding off in 3 spots(bottom, middle and top) as to be able to completely fill the cavity. Talk with a couple of companies to get a feel for how they operate and ask if they use a thermal imagining camera. This is important to make sure all voids are filled. The only areas that will be left to do are around windows and doors and you could get those later by removing the trim and filling with a can product.
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Ive been looking around to see if anyone offers injection foam. The biggest company we have around here are Lowes and Home depot. I dont think the smaller companies offer such things like ybc. The only things ybc offers is spray fiberglass.
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Well after a few estimates spray foam is out of the question due to cost and nobody really offers it. One company gave me a quote for dense packed fiberglass. I think i may be going this route. Tjey say it offers the same air stopage, does not settle, and will not create mold ect. If it gets wet. What do you all think about going that route?
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Dense pack is very good. I feel $ for $ you get the most for the least. 90% of the homes/renovations we do is with dense pack due to it being more budget friendly. Are you having it injected thru your drywall/siding or are you down to stud cavities? If studs are open and they use netting make sure they stretch the netting TIGHT and staple just on the inside of the stud and not the face. What happens with staples on the face is that as the cavity gets filled the netting stretches and you get some on the face, when you apply the drywall you don't pull the board tight to the stud. Another very important question to ask is if they are going to roll it. After the cavities are filled they should go over all the bays and this forces the air out so the material is flush with the stud face. If they don't you will fight your a__ off dealing with the drywall and popped screws. Trust me on this one from my first experience.
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There going to be doing from outside bu drilling holes threw the siding. I have wall panel so outside was best for me as paneling would be harder to fix. Plus it keeps the mess outside and not in lol. I def think im going to pull the trigger this time on insulation. This house is old and drafty. As of now im going threw and doing air sealing in the basement. I bought a Froth-Pak 200 for the frame sill, lemme tell ya its not as fun as i intended!