Outdoor Wood Furnace Info

All-Purpose OWF Discussions => General Outdoor Furnace Discussion => Topic started by: scarface77 on November 08, 2014, 10:53:18 AM

Title: major problem solved!!!
Post by: scarface77 on November 08, 2014, 10:53:18 AM
Had a major problem and finally got it fixed. Replaced the crappy 3 wrap underground pipe I purchased and replaced it with logstor, what a major difference !!! The repair job was expensive, had to rip out 2 sections of sidewalk, drain the furnace, rent a jackhammer, backhoe, and a forklift to pick up the furnace, dug up 75 ft. ditch to remove the crappy 3 wrap pipe, bought 6 ton of screening in witch I put a 8 inch layer down first, installed the new logstor and covered that with about 8 inches of screening. The total repair cost me around $2000. bucks !!! When I removed the 3 wrap it was waterlogged, the insulation crumbled apart like dry leaves. I new I had a major problem last winter when the furnace ran constant and when it did snow I always had a 75 ft. clear path where the 3 wrap pipe was installed and I had it buried 3 ft. deep. My neighbor's though I shoveled a path out to the furnace, that's how much heat I was losing. This logstor pipe is amazing, the furnace is fired up and up to temp at 180, no leaks. They shouldn't even sell that 3 wrap crap !!! I hope other people don't make the same mistake I did, buy logstor!
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: atvalaska on November 08, 2014, 11:07:20 AM
good on ya.... 2000$ is cheap in these parts!
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: jamesbodeis on November 08, 2014, 11:18:24 AM
How did the 3 wrap get water in it?
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: scarface77 on November 08, 2014, 12:58:26 PM
My guess is when I backfilled the line I didn't use sand or screenings and a couple rocks punctured the outer case. The soil where I live is shale and rocky.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: automan77 on November 08, 2014, 03:22:11 PM
I have a double tile  on my 3 wrap .
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: jamesbodeis on November 08, 2014, 04:48:45 PM
Just wondered. My 3-wrap is doing the trick so far. Single tiled.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: scarface77 on November 08, 2014, 05:54:44 PM
Well good luck with the 3 wrap, 5 wrap, whatever, in my opinion and experience hard lesson learned go with the logstor from the beginning, or replacement, its amazing, the earth mt. man 500 burns like a hour and idles close to 4 hrs.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: RSI on November 08, 2014, 10:04:12 PM
What kind of 3 wrap did you have? There is a big difference in quality of some stuff out there.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: slimjim on November 09, 2014, 03:36:32 AM
I would say that over the past 10 years that I have moved 100,000 feet of Logstor and had 1 single issue, an electrician drove a rebar anchor through the Logstor under a Radiant slab in a commercial building, I don't think that could possibly be considered a Logstor issue, Yes guys Logstor is pricey but in the long run it is the cheapest pipe you will ever buy, because it is the only pipe you will need to buy or dig a trench for.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: ijon on November 09, 2014, 06:14:31 AM
From early experience I would think if you use three wrap insulation you put it in genova plastic. I don't trust tile not to have leaks.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: mlappin on November 09, 2014, 06:51:58 AM
I would say that over the past 10 years that I have moved 100,000 feet of Logstor and had 1 single issue, an electrician drove a rebar anchor through the Logstor under a Radiant slab in a commercial building, I don't think that could possibly be considered a Logstor issue, Yes guys Logstor is pricey but in the long run it is the cheapest pipe you will ever buy, because it is the only pipe you will need to buy or dig a trench for.

Ugh, how'ed you ever go about fixing that? I imagine the slab was already poured before it was realized somebody fubared.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: slimjim on November 09, 2014, 07:11:25 AM
Against my recommendation, they cut the slab and Radiant loops, dug down and patched the Logstor underground, It would have been far better in my opinion to simply abandon the Pipe and run a new one on the outside of the building which is what I suggested to begin with, This was an engineered job so what do I know?
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: BoilerHouse on November 09, 2014, 09:33:35 AM
The 3 wrap failed because  the plastic O pipe it sits in failed.  Logstar has better O pipe but  any type of pipe- Logstar, 3 wrap, 5 wrap can still fail.  The single best thing one can do, regardless of type of pipe, is to properly back-fill the trench. A bed of pea gravel, then pipe, then  cover the pipe with sand or gravel a good 6 to 10 inches, then carefully back-fill the trench with the excavated material.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: martyinmi on November 09, 2014, 03:55:19 PM
The 3 wrap failed because  the plastic O pipe it sits in failed.  Logstar has better O pipe but  any type of pipe- Logstar, 3 wrap, 5 wrap can still fail.  The single best thing one can do, regardless of type of pipe, is to properly back-fill the trench. A bed of pea gravel, then pipe, then  cover the pipe with sand or gravel a good 6 to 10 inches, then carefully back-fill the trench with the excavated material.

 :post:  Brilliant post!!! Proper back filling is a must to pipe longevity. :post:
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: atvalaska on November 09, 2014, 06:09:28 PM
having never seen /other than pic's of 3/5 wrap ...I can't  see ANY value other than price... it looks to me like "arsto foil and or reflextix"  wrapped around the pipe an stuck in a black tube  .....worthless at r1 a inch  by itself !......along with, No reflective value at all  =  it suzks ....  I have thermopex  as that's what w got around here ...i'm amazed....a  120' loop and zero to a <1/2 degree  heat loss ( hel! I can say 185 in 185 out -cause  my serial #ed   probes  only flash 179.5 cause it aint fell  there yet!)
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: big cat on November 10, 2014, 08:27:29 PM
I too replaced triple wrap with logstar this summer and already see a difference. Instead of filling the OWB 5-6 times a day, I've been filling twice a day. Although, given the temps (50-60 degrees here), it still seems like I;m burning more wood than I should. I guess I'll find out when it gets colder. My settings are at 170/10. I have an 85' run and I'm getting 169 temp gauge readings inside the basement sending back 160 degree return temps to the OWB. 
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: automan77 on November 12, 2014, 12:17:06 PM
My z-supply 3 wrap works great .  No problems  what so ever.   Double tile  106 foot run from boiler to house.  Less then 1 degree temp loss. 
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: jamesbodeis on November 12, 2014, 02:00:40 PM
I've got the z-supply 3 wrap also. Single tiled. 4-5 feet deep. So far so good. Havent had any real cold weather to test but it seems the colder it gets the better it works.
Title: Re: major problem solved!!!
Post by: Pinehouse4 on November 13, 2014, 09:06:50 PM
The pipe we use and how we install it is so important, it affects the amount of wood/ therefore work we do and the heat we receive.

I think that because we stick it in the ground and never see it we underestimate it's value. Yet it is a critical part of the system.

Bob