Outdoor Wood Furnace Info
All-Purpose OWF Discussions => Plumbing => Topic started by: lmann on November 08, 2014, 07:39:59 PM
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I'll try to give as much info to start. I have a classic 5036. I am plumbing it to two buildings. Each building is pumped continuously by 007 pumps mounted on the boiler. The 1200sq' house is as follows. 75' of 1" thermopex to the house. 25' of 1" to the thermostatic valve. 15' of 1" to a 30plate w/w (for pool) then 10' of 1" to w/h side arm then 25' of 1" to forced air furnace with 100k btu w/a then back to boiler. All is in basement. The 900sq' garage with 10' walls is as follows. 50' of 1" thermopex to garage. Into thermostatic valve. 3/4" line to mixing valve to 007 pump to manifold feeding 3 runs of 300' of 1/2". Does this design seem right for each building? Wondering if I should have plumbed the w/w for the pool with a bypass option to reduce plumbing during heating season? I did a bypass for furnace so we could heat water longer than the heating season. For the garage is the single 007 good for the floor runs? Floor temp in 140 and 80 out.
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You only have one pump on the building with the floor heat and no pump at the boiler?
I would check the return temps on the house loop. A 007 sounds like it would be way too small for what you described.
Was the 30 plate sold as a pool heater? Is it brazed? Pool water isn't compatible with brass so you will want to make sure it is meant for heating a pool.
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Good Points RSI, Agreed all the way!
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Both buildings have a 007 at the boiler pumping all the time.
The house does NOT have another pump. It relies on the one at the boiler to push everything.
Should I add a second pump for the house?
The garage has a 007 inside which pumps for the floor when heat is needed. That pump pushes 3 runs of about 300' of 1/2".
I asked my boiler guy for a unit to heat the pool and that's what he suggested. But the more I buy and questions I ask I'm starting to think I know more about the setup than the dealer. He said he just sells boilers and plumbs the outside. He sells everything else but has nothing to do with it. Which leads me to believe he doesn't have knowledge of the parts he sells.
I think I can add pics if needed.
Thanks
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That's a big load for that stove IMO. Not many dealers have good knowledge like what you can find on this site. Hopefully you can return some parts and let these guys get you straightened out. That stove should work for your house and garage. Pool, not sure. Probably take a lot of wood.
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The pool is only summer time use with boiler. I figured since the boiler was here use it. And we only fire it up for the pool every once in awhile.
The boiler seems to use a lot of wood for the buildings. Some night when really cold it won't make the night on a firebox packed full.
What is the best way to determine return temp? I have a infra temp gun but it doesn't seem accurate. I believe if we can get the return temp up it'll reduce wood usage.
I've been reading a lot on here and wish a would have found this forum before I started.
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Just feeling the pipes will get you a better estimate on return temp than an infrared thermometer.
The pumps are probably fine on the building with the floor heat.
If you are getting decent return temps on the house loop then you can leave the 007 but I think you will need a minimum of an 0015 and may even need to go up to an 0011. (an 009 would also probably be ok)
You don't have to stay with Taco either. There are a lot of other options.
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Would it help to add a by pass to the w/w for the pool in the off season?
Should I go with a larger single pump? Or add a second one inside the house?
The garage with floor heat has a mixing valve. I've played with different in temps (110-140) but only get 80 out.
Is that ok? I assume the thermostatic valve must allow some to return to boiler even if up to temp because the return seems hot even with only 80 coming out of floor.
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You can add another pump. I would go with a 0015 though as the 2nd pump.
Is the pool heater in a heated area or could it freeze? If you are not using it there is no point in running water through it unless it needs freeze protection.
How do you have the plumbing setup for the floor heat? Can you post a diagram or photo of it?
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Should I add the second pump right after the thermostatic valve inside the house?
Pool heater is in line in the basement with everything for the house. So I could bypass it.
If I bypass it would I still need a second pump?
It would only be w/h sidearm and the w/a in furnace.
I'm using my iPhone for all this so I'll try to post a pic of the garage floor heat.
But as discribed once it enters the garage it all mounted together on a board. It enters into the thermostatic valve then to the mixing valve then pump then manifold for the three runs.
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I can't get the picture to load to the forum. Can I send it to you another way? Email?
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Can I email my garage floor setup picture to anyone? Or can anyone tell me how to get it loaded to here. It says file folder is full. I've tried shrinking it with no luck.
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Can I email my garage floor setup picture to anyone? Or can anyone tell me how to get it loaded to here. It says file folder is full. I've tried shrinking it with no luck.
Unfortunately full means full, try posting your pics on Photobucket, Flickr, etc then post the links to your picture here.
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Ok thank you.
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If I did it right this is a picture of my garage floor setup.
(http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/lucky21161/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/FF4F1654-EEB7-4E15-A3A5-8F519436A068_zpsdr9fkurp.png)
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It's a 007 pushing 3 runs of 300' of 1/2". Is the pump large enough? Is it plumb right? Should I change anything? I'm thinking about adding a fan backed w/a for faster recovery. How and where in line should I add it?
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Do you have another circ at the wood boiler or is the little Taco pulling through both valves, if it were me I would make the wood boiler loop a Primary loop that runs constant, without the diverter valve and control the floor temps with the Taco in the picture, it appears to me the Taco is pulling a very small amount of water through 2 mixing valves
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There is a 007 at the boiler running constant to the building.
The black valve is the central boiler thermostatic valve that is needed for their warranty.
Above that is the mixing valve to cool the temp before it is pumped into the floor when calling for heat that pump turns on.
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Here is a diagram of the garage plumbing from the boiler. (http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/lucky21161/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/CE1F6E6D-7982-44E2-B39F-613299E56A70_zpshqjubuzb.jpg)
Boiler with 007 pushing the 40' of 1" thermo pex to the garage.
All other plumbing is mounted in a 4'x4' area.
Do I need a larger pump pushing the floor? I've tried in temps of 110-140 but I only get 80 coming out if the floor.
The floor is 3 runs of 300' of 1/2". One zone.
Is this plumbed right?
What's correct?
What's wrong?
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300 feet is in my opinion stretching it but also keep in mind that it may take days before the floor is up to temp and only then will your return temps stabilize.
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300 is stretching it. For the pump? Or for design? I read to keep the runs 300 or under. So I put three runs in the 30x30 slab to keep them under 300 each. I started the floor heat early this year before it got cold to try and stay ahead of it but didn't seem to make much difference.
I've been fighting with this boiler and design for house and garage for 3 seasons. If I can get 6-8 hours of burn time it's a miracle.
I'd like to get to where I can brag about how great wood boilers are.
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300 feet is a long run in my opinion per loop, all three loops are off the same circ am I right? One place that is very important and often neglected is perimeter wall or edge of slab insolation, some estimates are that up to 80% of lost heat lost from radiant in slab is around perimeter walls, could this possibly be your problem?
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Yes. The 007 is pushing the manifold that has the three 300' runs of 1/2".
I have 2" pink foam under slab and 1/2" around the sides (the thickest without being wider the the siding)
Each of the three runs starts toward an outer wall as to put the most heat there when starting.
I'm thinking I need a bigger pump (0011) to push the water thru the 3 runs of 1/2" (300' each) in the floor.
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A 00-11 will be to big and will cavitate the circ, could you shoot the floor to see if you have hot,cold spots in it? Any chance the pex got crimped or crushed in the slab? Do you have flow meters on each loop of the manifold? If so what is the GPM and are they balanced? Are you sure you got ALL the air out of the loops?
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I ordered a 00R 3 speed pump. Will that be ok?
The floor seems fairly even for temps. I'll double check with my IR temp gun.
No flow meters. They all come off one standard manifold.
I'm pretty confident all the air is out. Is there a preferred method to verify all air is out?
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Remember, water will take the path of least resistance, you must purge air from just one loop at a time, all other loops must be shut off in order to drive air out of the loop you are working on.
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I shut down my house loop to bypass the w/w ex for the pool in the off season.
When I closed the house loop I noticed the boiler cycled less. Now I'm thinking my issue might be the house design.
Roughly 290' (included fittings) of 1" pex then the thermostatic valve to a sidearm for w/h and a w/a ex in the furnace.
All originally fed by a 007 at the boiler. I swapped it with the 00R (0015) 3 speed. I've tried all speeds and not much change. There's a 6-8 drop in temp from boiler to house (65') of thermo pex according to the water temp tee I added.
Is the pump still not big enough?
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It seems like dropping 6-8 degrees with 65' is way too much. I'm wondering if you are getting bad temp readings.
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I'm thinking I'm not moving the water fast enough.
I bought the temp tee setup because it actually ties into the pex and is in water. Versus reading the pipe temp.
I'm gonna try and use another method (different thermometer) and see what I get.
Some have used wireless meat thermometer. I'll see what the stores have.